Let's ask our resident expert...lustylad, how much did the Trump tariffs costs consumers the last 3-4 years?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by royamcr

It doesn't matter where it originated from. 9/11 terrorists originated from the Middle east. Both were allowed into country and do damage. Under Republican presidents...

Riiiight!

And Woodrow Wilson was 100% to blame for the 675,000 Americans who died from the Spanish flu, right? Doesn't matter where it came from.

And Americans should have directed 100% of their fury at FDR after Pearl Harbor was bombed on December 7, 1941! Doesn't matter where that sneak attack originated from.

Oh dear! Both occurred under Democrat Presidents.

You're even dumber than WTF, if that's possible.

[royamcr]

Oh ya it helps to go back 100 fucking years. Dumbass. You are like trump saying that the founding fathers had energy independence the other day. What the fuck? Funny thing is he wasn't wrong, no energy = 100% independent. Has zero relevance though. Try to keep history to where it is relevant to make a valid point. 20, maybe 30 years. Past that is way different times.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by royamcr

Try to keep history to where it is relevant to make a valid point. 20, maybe 30 years. Past that is way different times.

God help us if enough people actually "think" like you. We're fucking doomed!

But perhaps it doesn't matter how far back we go - you evidently understand nothing about the lessons of history, recent or retro, and the only snippets you believe are revisionist bullshit.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by royamcr

Oh ya it helps to go back 100 fucking years. Dumbass. You are like trump saying that the founding fathers had energy independence the other day. What the fuck? Funny thing is he wasn't wrong, no energy = 100% independent. Has zero relevance though. Try to keep history to where it is relevant to make a valid point. 20, maybe 30 years. Past that is way different times.

How about Obama and his “shovel ready” jobs? Even he admitted that was bullshit. Where did that trillion dollars go? We’ll wait.

[royamcr]

While the 2009 stimulus package may not have fixed the nation’s infrastructure, it certainly did its intended job of getting the economy back on track. Since the stimulus bill was signed back in February 2009, the SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (NYSE: SPY) is up 194 percent. This is from 2017, so the S&P numbers are way higher now.

Surveys of economists show overwhelming agreement that the stimulus reduced unemployment, and that the benefits of the stimulus outweighed the costs.

And lets not forget why the recovery act was needed in the first place... Republicans fucked things as usual... 8 years of bush dumbfuckery, and Obama gets blamed for it...

This time around it was 4 years of dumbfuckery, over a million dead and counting, trillions spent, and Dumbfucks blame Biden.

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by royamcr

Oh ya it helps to go back 100 fucking years. Dumbass. You are like trump saying that the founding fathers had energy independence the other day. What the fuck? Funny thing is he wasn't wrong, no energy = 100% independent. Has zero relevance though. Try to keep history to where it is relevant to make a valid point. 20, maybe 30 years. Past that is way different times.

... Sleepy Joe is DESTROYING the Country.

Everyone knows it...

... Nowhere for you to hide on that.

### Salty

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by royamcr

While the 2009 stimulus package may not have fixed the nation’s infrastructure, it certainly did its intended job of getting the economy back on track. Since the stimulus bill was signed back in February 2009, the SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (NYSE: SPY) is up 194 percent. This is from 2017, so the S&P numbers are way higher now.

Learn how to fucking post a link, put anything from the link in quotemarks, and separate your own comments from those of others!

[bambino]

Originally Posted by royamcr

While the 2009 stimulus package may not have fixed the nation’s infrastructure, it certainly did its intended job of getting the economy back on track. Since the stimulus bill was signed back in February 2009, the SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (NYSE: SPY) is up 194 percent. This is from 2017, so the S&P numbers are way higher now.

Surveys of economists show overwhelming agreement that the stimulus reduced unemployment, and that the benefits of the stimulus outweighed the costs.

And lets not forget why the recovery act was needed in the first place... Republicans fucked things as usual... 8 years of bush dumbfuckery, and Obama gets blamed for it...

This time around it was 4 years of dumbfuckery, over a million dead and counting, trillions spent, and Dumbfucks blame Biden.

It went to the unions who helped him get elected.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by lustylad

US Covid Deaths Under Trump (While Developing Vaccines Under Operation Warp Speed): 400,000

US Covid Deaths to Date Under Biden (Despite Having Multiple Approved Vaccines From Day One): 596,000

bidens numbers were double that trumps. about 800,000.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

bidens numbers were double that trumps. about 800,000.

Wrong.

Total US deaths related to covid are currently around 997,000.

The number stood at roughly 400,000 on Jan. 20, 2021 - when Biden was sworn in.

Do the math. 597,000 deaths to date under Biden is awful enough.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by WTF

Inquiring minds are waiting with baited breath upon your expert analysis!

Not as much as Biden's Inflation, lol.

[Tiny]

I'm about as big a fan of Donald Trump as you are, but think you're being unfair.

Originally Posted by royamcr

baaaaaaahahahahaa. you asked for it here is a start.

1. Trump promised to bring down America's trade deficit “as fast as possible.” Instead, the trade deficit has hit an all-time high. The United States is now purchasing more goods and services from the rest of the world than we sell abroad than at any time in history.

The monthly trade deficit increased by $24 billion during the 4 years of the Trump administration. It's increased $44 billion during 1-1/4 years of the Biden administration. I wouldn't necessarily blame that on Trump or Biden. COVID and more recently a strong dollar probably had a lot to do with it.

Originally Posted by royamcr

2. As a presidential candidate in 2016, he said he could completely eliminate the federal debt in eight years. Instead, the federal debt has exploded thanks to Trump and the GOP's $1.9 trillion tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations. They're already using the growing debt to threaten cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

LustyLad's recent posts on the corporate income tax would indicate the increase in debt from the tax cuts may be a lot less than you think. The corporate tax cut could over the long term actually increase government revenues, in large part because of changes in the way foreign income and cash held by corporations overseas is treated. I'd argue the changes in taxation of corporations made for a tighter job market, with decreased unemployment and increased median household income. At the individual level, the tax cuts, which in % terms cut rates for lower income taxpayers more, made the tax system more progressive.

Biden's $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, which Republicans and Democrat economic guru Larry Summers fought tooth and nail against, may boost the debt more than the tax cuts.

Originally Posted by royamcr

3. He promised to boost the wages of American workers, including a $4,000 pay raise for the average American family. Instead, wages for most Americans have been flat, adjusted for inflation. Meanwhile, over the same period, corporate profits have soared and the rich have become far richer, but the gains haven’t trickled down.

The tax cuts kicked in at the first of 2018, and since he took office Trump was cutting regulation. In 2019, real (inflation adjusted) median household income increased by over $4000.

Originally Posted by royamcr

4. His administration said that corporations would invest their savings from tax cuts. Instead, corporations spent more money buying back shares of their own stock in 2018 than they invested in new equipment or facilities. These stock buybacks provide no real benefit for the economy, but boost executive bonuses and payouts for wealthy investors.

They did boost investment substantially. Again, see LustyLad's recent posts. As to buybacks and dividends, that's necessary for efficient allocation of capital. A lot of these companies brought back massive amounts of money from foreign countries as a result of the changes to tax laws in 2017. Many probably couldn't invest the money wisely in their businesses, so they returned some in the form of buybacks and dividends. Investors took this money and re-invested much of it in other companies, mostly American companies, with better prospects.

Originally Posted by royamcr

5. He promised a tax cut for middle-class families. Instead most Americans will end up paying more by 2027.

He did cut taxes on middle class Americans. The 2017 TCJA proportionately cut tax rates on the middle class more than higher income workers. Yes, most Americans will end up paying more by 2027, because of inflation. Inflation that was turbocharged by Biden's American Rescue Plan. Unfortunately inflation in goods and services is outpacing inflation in wages, so the working man now is losing ground.

Originally Posted by royamcr

6. He promised to keep jobs in America and crack down on companies that ship jobs overseas. Instead, his tax law has created financial incentives for corporations to expand their operations abroad. Trump's trade wars have also encouraged companies like Harley Davidson to move production overseas.

I'm on board with you, in that I believe the trade wars (i.e. higher tariffs) that Trump instituted and that Biden has done little to change were stupid. That's what caused Harley Davidson to expand overseas. However, overall, you're wrong on this point. American companies brought lots of money back to the U.S., most of which stayed in the U.S., and that along with the corporate tax cuts (which improved economics of and provided more cash flow for projects and expansions) have created more jobs in America. Again, see LustyLad's recent posts.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by royamcr

Can't forget about how he fucked up Covid response.

I've criticized Trump on this as much as anyone on this board. But looking back, I don't know whether Hillary Clinton would have done any better. The Trump Administration's Operation Warp Speed saved lots of lives by getting vaccines to the public quicker. On the other hand, Trump surely could have used the presidential bully pulpit better. Encouraging people to wear masks (preferably KN95 and N95 after those became available) and social distance and not holding super spreader events for example. If more people had done that and then gotten vaccinated at first opportunity lives would have been saved and the economic damage wouldn't have been as great.

Americans however are a stubborn lot. Many of us weren't going to do what was needed to avoid the disease until the vaccines were available. And many were afraid of the vaccines. So there's only so much a president can do.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by royamcr

He failed to fix healthcare. He never knew it was so hard. All the other retarded republican senators voted to repeal except one smart one that knew there was no replacement. All the others probably knew, but they are pieces of shit and didn't give a fuck.

Nobody's fixing health care. Our system in terms of cost as a % of GDP is the most expensive in the world, but outcomes aren't any better than Cuba. You can't blame Republicans on this any more than Democrats.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by royamcr

More people have died from 9/11 side effects than died on 9/11. That's not including any war deaths/injuries. That is all on Bush. Same with Covid, it started and proliferated under Trump. It isn't like Biden could wave a magic wand and make it go away. Trump did all he could to make magatards not get vaccinated or use other mitigating efforts. It took a year to get enough vaccinated to make a dent in the spread.

OK, you're partisan but kind of semi rational until you get to this post. This is where you lose me. It makes "0" sense to blame 9/11 on Bush or COVID on Trump. Now if you're arguing that Bush badly mishandled our response to 9/11, including the invasion of Iraq, I'll agree with you.

Trump encouraged people to get vaccinated. He got vaccinated at first opportunity, after enough time had passed after he was infected. But yes, he could have been more diligent in his encouragement.