TAKE NOTICE - Hobbyist Creedo

[Damon Bradley]

I can see that folks are having the same issues with this inane question in the National, as they are in our Austin poll, where he posed the same question.

[TheDogger]

Thanks everyone for spending the time posting on this thread as well as voting.

Current tally as of this writing:

National 29 for 5 against
Houston 37 for 31 against
Dallas 35 for 9 against
San Antonio 38 for 5 against
Austion 16 for 17 against

For a total of: 155 for 67 against.

Fascinating results. Much of the disparity comes from some of vigorous and vitriolic responses in the Houston and Austin forums lambasting even asking the question. This at first swayed the early results nearly 2-1 against but as the detractors slowly silenced, the “for’s” became much less intimidated.

Now to respond to some of the remarkable criticism.

“The poll is poorly written, divisive and trick.”
No, I am not a professional pollster but I did word it in the exact wording I thought would provide the greatest amount of conversation and discussion. I provided both the circumstances of the poll via a thread link (significant actions of a hobbyist in Houston) and specific perspectives required: “As a Hobbyist considering what is going on in Houston….” If that pisses you off. Sorry.

“Divisive”
You betcha. Either you do or you don’t. You don’t…go ahead a vote and say so but your anger is terribly misplaced. This was to challenge us all into understanding whether we lead with our Respect Chins or not. If you do, which seems like the majority, you vote and stay quiet. Those that don’t agree tend to scream and holler like a guilty person does screaming their innocence. Quite telling.

“Trick”
Wha???? Its clearly stated, yes or no. Whatever. Define it yourself and vote. Dislike it, don’t understand it and leave. Take it easy….its just a poll on a hobby site.

“You’re a White Knight”
Again…wha? A White Knight is an excuser to a woman provider who is in the wrong. Clearly that is not the case here and no….I make no excuses for the guilty.

“Fuck off Dogger”
Nice one…thanks Budman.

“Self glorifying to get Extra’s from Providers”
Bullshit. I only see a few providers as it is. With all of them, the relationships started provider/client then friends now lovers. I believe in quality not quantity. Some of the most remarkable people I’ve ever met have been providers and they deserve our respect not our disdain as so many hobbyists believe is their place. Simply pisses me off. Society has got their status in the social chain completely upside down.

“Did it to defend women without regard to whether they deserve it or not.”
Everyone deserves some modicum of respect, period. Even the crack ho’s abusing their kids deserve respect by not condemning them by walking away allowing to continue but correcting the problem and protecting the kids through intervention through all the legal means built into our society and providing resources for the Mom to get the medical help she needs. That’s what makes us Americans.

I simply created this poll as a reaction to the amazing amount of support and excusing of a horrendous action done by a hobbyist in Houston and then self glorified himself in the Co-Ed section, where the thread was subsequently moved to the Mens Forum, and then received and UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT of accolades and high fives for all his predation and molestation. His words not mine.

UnFuckingBelievable.

I did this poll not for women, I did it for MEN and for ECCIE saying:

“NO – This world and this entire site is not filled with complete animals and disrespectful women haters.”

Men that I know and respect not only want nothing to do with that but stand up and say “Fuck that…not in my backyard!”

And if that pisses you off…well, I don’t fucking care. The numbers say the same.

[charlestudor2005]

This is a Bullshit Poll!!!! I don't care what you say, Dogger, about your clarity, I did not think it was very clear at all.

I say RESPECT is EARNED, no ifs, ands or buts. There are some ladies (and gents) on this board that have earned my respect. And there are some that I didn't respect on their 1st post that I have changed my mind about. But for the most part, respect isn't given to anyone at the time I meet them. Whether or not they get my respect is a process, much like the aging of a fine wine. Experience teaches me whether someone deserves respect.

But to automatically give it to everyone...it just doesn't work like that.

Several people pointed this out, but your refused to recognize it. You believe that your poll was not flawed by anything and your post today proves that. You need to man up and admit that respect is earned, and not given no matter what.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I say RESPECT is EARNED, no ifs, ands or buts.

But to automatically give it to everyone...it just doesn't work like that.

How are you going to earn respect from the provider (or anyone else for that matter) if you start out not treating her (or them) with respect?

I maintain my position that you should treat others with respect until they show that they don't deserve to be so treated. (Although the poll is still flawed.)

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How are you going to earn respect from the provider (or anyone else for that matter) if you start out not treating her (or them) with respect?

I maintain my position that you should treat others with respect until they show that they don't deserve to be so treated. (Although the poll is still flawed.)

I treat her with professionalism and courtesy. After we have engaged in communication over a period of time, it may have developed for her, and her for me.

With the nature of the hobby the way it is, I don't expect any provider to trust or respect me at the outset. That may change after one or more meetings, but I don't think respect is a given, especially in the hobby where there is a trust and safety issue that permeates the relationship.

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by TheDogger

I am not a professional pollster but I did word it in the exact wording I thought would provide the greatest amount of conversation and discussion. I provided both the circumstances of the poll via a thread link (significant actions of a hobbyist in Houston) and specific perspectives required: “As a Hobbyist considering what is going on in Houston….” If that pisses you off. Sorry.


Its clearly stated, yes or no. Whatever. Define it yourself and vote.


Everyone deserves some modicum of respect, period.

Oh please.

Your intentions may have been good, and your reaction may have been justified (can't really assess that, since I don't have Premium Access and can't read the thread), but your execution was extremely poor IMO.

If you intended to restrict it to actions such as those by Monkeypaw, you could (and should) have worded it accordingly (and perhaps restricted your poll to Houston instead of multiple forums). If you deliberately choose terms that you should know will be interpreted different ways ("will respect" as opposed to "will not treat rudely or disrespectfully") and very expansive language ("in all circumstances," rather than, say, "until they prove they don't deserve it"), not to mention focusing on a mental attitude rather than what people actually say and do . . . well, that may make for a good conversation or discussion, although I doubt it. But poll results, when everyone may be defining the question differently, are totally meaningless. As you should know.

You have been expressing your lack of respect for certain individuals. Hey, you're entitled, and I might agree with you if I knew them. Would you sign on to a credo that said "I will respect hobbyists of all ages in all circumstances"? Because you apparently don't do that. And if not, why should someone be expected to sign on to your wording?

I could not honestly vote "Yes" to the wording you supplied. But I think the vast majority of people I've interacted with in the P4P community would classify me as "respectful." (If not, they're welcome to tell me so. ) And if your poll and analysis combines people like me with people like Monkeypaw and those applauding his attitude, quite frankly your results are ridiculous

[Budman]

Originally Posted by TheDogger

“Fuck off Dogger”
Nice one…thanks Budman.

You're welcome.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I treat her with professionalism and courtesy. After we have engaged in communication over a period of time, it may have developed for her, and her for me.

With the nature of the hobby the way it is, I don't expect any provider to trust or respect me at the outset. That may change after one or more meetings, but I don't think respect is a given, especially in the hobby where there is a trust and safety issue that permeates the relationship.

I don't equate respect with trust. I may "treat people with respect" I don't trust in any given circumstance. I equate treating someone with respect as showing them "professionalism and courtesy." We may not be as far apart as it initially seemed.

[undergrounds]

I generally give everyone the benefit of the doubt and firmly feel that most people are good natured and don't harbor ill will towards anyone without just cause. That being said...... I still have a concealed carry and do carry almost 100% of the time . Just incase and I'm fully aware of how that sounds and looks. On human level I feel everyone deserves respect and humility until they do something stupid.

This is the only time you'll hear me quote Regan, "Trust but Verify" is my motto in the hobby.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Ttowncammer

I feel everyone deserves respect and humility until they do something stupid.

I can still respect someone who does something stupid. It's the nature of the human beast. OTOH, I've gotten to the age where I don't suffer fools easily, so it's a case by case issue.

[Eccie Addict]

I've always shown respect to ladies or so I thought so. Even when they became disrespectful I would rather walk away than to tear a woman down even if I'm right. Standing there and letting them continue to be disrespectful is being a doormat bit walking away I feel is being respectful. Now my definition could be way off so it may not bd respect I am showing but mere curtesy. I always considered it respect.

[Satter]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I treat her with professionalism and courtesy.

But, isn't that a form of respect? I mean, if you did the opposite of being professional and being courteous then one could say you're disrespecting her.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Satter

But, isn't that a form of respect? I mean, if you did the opposite of being professional and being courteous then one could say you're disrespecting her.

Not really. It's more like being a gentleman. Being couth. Being a member of polite society.

It takes a lot more to earn respect.

I can be a gentleman and still not respect another person based on the dealings I have had with that person. We all know people that we don't respect, but to whom we are polite because we are gentlemen or ladies.

[abdclub]

Dogger - I'm with you!
Budman - fuck off yourself and take your "pole" with you!


abdclub

[Budman]

abd,
Go check out the list of women that Rand listed in this thread http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?p=793287#post793287 and tell me you respect these scum bags. Can anybody here say they respect these people? If you can't and you voted to "agree" with dogger then you lied or did not take his question as written. If say say you have respect for these people you are a fucking moron.

abd, yea I made a typo. So shoot me but please do it with respect. Pull your head out of your ass, wipe the shit from your eyes and admit that it is impossible to respect everybody in every circumstance.

Originally Posted by abdclub

Dogger - I'm with you!
Budman - fuck off yourself and take your "pole" with you!


abdclub