What Ireland Teaches Us About Modern Liberalism

[shanm]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

If I did, and did so excessively, ...

...................I might be able to communicate better on your level.

Same with BigTits on weekends ... and Shamless all the time.

I just don't think I could kill enough brain cells to catch up if I started now.

See below. I can now add "whisky" to the growing list.

Trying to deflect from your ignorance, are you:

Sorry LLIdiot, there's no whiskey for you. You're white trash. Have a couple of PBRs and then its straight to the drunk tank for you.

"look into the camera and say: I'm white trash and I'm in trouble"

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

firstly, you need a tossed salad.

And you perfectly illustrate the conservative agenda whenever the chips are down. They would rather destroy the country than face change. They aren't clueless about history and culture. We are finally learning the truth about our history and culture. Not the bullshit you were taught in school, either. Might as well have learned fairytales.

You're right about one thing; you're outnumbered and that will only grow more true as time marches on and you old fucks turn into worm food.

Tossed salad? I thought you were more into fruit salad.

I don't think you understand one single thing about conservative principals.

I would love to see that poll (from someone other than Mother Jones or the Huffington Post) that says we are outnumbered. That last I heard was that 37 different states have voted against gay marriage. Does that depress you Mr. Fruit salad eater.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Tossed salad? I thought you were more into fruit salad.

I don't think you understand one single thing about conservative principals.

I would love to see that poll (from someone other than Mother Jones or the Huffington Post) that says we are outnumbered. That last I heard was that 37 different states have voted against gay marriage. Does that depress you Mr. Fruit salad eater.

It's principles, goddamn. Principals run schools. You been eating retard sandwiches again? So I don't understand them, but you don't even know how to spell the motherfucking word.

I'm well versed in conservative ideology. They resist change that isn't organic. This country was set free by men who had liberal ideals, not conservative ones. The conservatives were the ones who thought we should stay loyal to the crown. The liberals favored radical change and revolution. This is not even up for debate. Go research it for yourself. Conservatives favor the maintaining of the status quo. They favor traditional attitudes and values. The very definition of someone who is conservative is someone who does not like change.

I think it's you who doesn't know what conservative PRINCIPLES are.

[CuteOldGuy]

True, to a point. Classical liberals stood firmly for freedom and small government. Modern liberals are quite the opposite.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

True, to a point. Classical liberals stood firmly for freedom and small government. Modern liberals are quite the opposite.

They aren't true liberals, then. True liberals are almost libertarian in their attitude toward personal freedom, private property, etc.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

True, to a point. Classical liberals stood firmly for freedom and small government. Modern liberals are quite the opposite.

That's not entirely true. The distinction that you fail to understand is the difference between the modern government and the government envisioned by the so-called "classic liberals".

In Liberalism, the government is the people. That's also the basic fundamental of democracy. You choose people to represent you, not themselves. Therefore, if we (as the people) agree on something, then the government makes it happen the best way it can. There is no big or small government clause in "classic liberalism" and it all just depends on how you define government.

Todays government has too much politics and money involved to even remotely resemble the government imagined by the original Liberals. The privacy encroachment, high taxation and the other things you mention are all definite examples.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by shanm

That's not entirely true. The distinction that you fail to understand is the difference between the modern government and the government envisioned by the so-called "classic liberals".

In Liberalism, the government is the people. That's also the basic fundamental of democracy. You choose people to represent you, not themselves. Therefore, if we (as the people) agree on something, then the government makes it happen the best way it can. There is no big or small government clause in "classic liberalism" and it all just depends on how you define government.

Todays government has too much politics and money involved to even remotely resemble the government imagined by the original Liberals. The privacy encroachment, high taxation and the other things you mention are all definite examples.

Well put!

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by shanm

That's not entirely true. The distinction that you fail to understand is the difference between the modern government and the government envisioned by the so-called "classic liberals".

In Liberalism, the government is the people. That's also the basic fundamental of democracy. You choose people to represent you, not themselves. Therefore, if we (as the people) agree on something, then the government makes it happen the best way it can. There is no big or small government clause in "classic liberalism" and it all just depends on how you define government.

Todays government has too much politics and money involved to even remotely resemble the government imagined by the original Liberals. The privacy encroachment, high taxation and the other things you mention are all definite examples.

That's true. But I don't support and defend modern government like you do.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

That's true. But I don't support and defend modern government like you do.

Do you pay your taxes? If the answer is yes, you defend them just about as much as anyone else does. Here's a radical thought; maybe a democracy like ours simply doesn't work on this scale. Perhaps democracy cannot scale up to serve a population that now exceeds 300 million people. I don't think democracy works great as it is, but that's me. Way too many assumptions are made. That every vote is equal, for one. This board alone is proof that not everyone can reach rational and measured decisions based on information given. This board is also another perfect example of the tribe mentality that we possess as social animals. It causes us to vote for our 'team' instead of based on issues.

Go look up Arrow's impossibility theorem. It posits, mathematically, that pure democracy doesn't work.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Do you pay your taxes? If the answer is yes, you defend them just about as much as anyone else does. Here's a radical thought; maybe a democracy like ours simply doesn't work on this scale. Perhaps democracy cannot scale up to serve a population that now exceeds 300 million people. I don't think democracy works great as it is, but that's me. Way too many assumptions are made. That every vote is equal, for one. This board alone is proof that not everyone can reach rational and measured decisions based on information given. This board is also another perfect example of the tribe mentality that we possess as social animals. It causes us to vote for our 'team' instead of based on issues.

Go look up Arrow's impossibility theorem. It posits, mathematically, that pure democracy doesn't work.

Pure democracy would be horrible. I would never advocate that. Yes, I pay my taxes. But that is not defending or apologizing for government. And while I pay my taxes, I am also active in organizations advocating elimination of income and ad valorem taxes.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Do you pay your taxes? If the answer is yes, you defend them just about as much as anyone else does. Here's a radical thought; maybe a democracy like ours simply doesn't work on this scale. Perhaps democracy cannot scale up to serve a population that now exceeds 300 million people. I don't think democracy works great as it is, but that's me. Way too many assumptions are made. That every vote is equal, for one. This board alone is proof that not everyone can reach rational and measured decisions based on information given. This board is also another perfect example of the tribe mentality that we possess as social animals. It causes us to vote for our 'team' instead of based on issues.

Go look up Arrow's impossibility theorem. It posits, mathematically, that pure democracy doesn't work.

I agree with you. The solution is to break up the country into smaller units - like the states.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Pure democracy would be horrible. I would never advocate that. Yes, I pay my taxes. But that is not defending or apologizing for government. And while I pay my taxes, I am also active in organizations advocating elimination of income and ad valorem taxes.

You must be a huge Brownback fan then dull knife. His policies have left us with a 4mil shortfall, and the lawmakers are blowing $46,000 a day trying to fix it.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

You must be a huge Brownback fan then dull knife. His policies have left us with a 4mil shortfall, and the lawmakers are blowing $46,000 a day trying to fix it.

That makes even less sense than usual, LittleEva. No. I'm not a Brownback supporter.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

That makes even less sense than usual, LittleEva. No. I'm not a Brownback supporter.

I'm sure it did dull knife, one line comments baffle you and this one was two lines.

[normalguy21]

I being a american of irish decent see and know one thing .

It doesnt matter if you like dick are pussy as long as whatever county your in you pretend thats your favorite whiskey .

Wars have been started over whiskey distilling .

Never that i know of over dick on dick are pussy on pussy marriage .

Now get back to building a slow stainless steel car and a big ship that sank titanicly !

Whisky is the whisKEY are is it whiskies ??

If a county got named Cork its because we were to poor to put one in the bottle .