Actors.........Fuckin Morons

[Old-T]

Every dictator--hell, every national leader--does some good things and some bad. They will make some friends among the population, and some enemies. To ask those who fled what they think is rather one-sided; why do you think they fled in the first place?

But in this case, on ballance I think Chavez comes out very heavily in the red. He was not a good person, and took glee in shoving a stick in the US's eye.

But what I think is interesting, this is really a very mild preview of the discussion (yelling match?) we'll see played out when the Castro dynasty finally goes away. I'm sure castro is even farther down the list of evil people to many of the posters here. But he also did some amazingly good things for a lot of Cubans post Batista. The definitive biography of Fidel will take a very long time to eventually be written, and even then it will probably be a lot of fiction. Chavez was only a very, very small reflection of that.

It will be interesting to watch a melt-down of Chernobyl proportions on here. I should start stocking up on popcorn now.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The people I've talked to who have come from Venezuela have horror stories about Chavez. And these were poor people in Venezuela. He crushed dissent, controlled the news and hung around with other brutal despots. Yes, he took from the rich, gave some to the poor, but kept most for himself. His net worth is reported at about $4 billion. Surely the presidency didn't pay that much. He was a corrupt, brutal dictator.

And now he has created a nation of takers, wondering who will take care of us now?

No wonder he supported Obama. Not a hell of a lot of difference there.

Oh please....yes, by all means, tell us about your multiple contacts with the citizens of Venezuela....who must stream through Wichita in enormous numbers.

Who fucking cares? I bet the people in Venezuela will get it all sorted out, without any help from us. Just as long as they keep sending us that billion barrels of oil every day,right? I missed the usual right-wing whackadoo condemnation of Chavez on that issue.

[EXTXOILMAN]

Never been there, don't plan on it. But, you can bet the "mourners" shown on the MSM are very similar to the "mourners" shown ad nauseum after the death of Kim Jong-il in North Korea. We here in the U.S. will get very little of the truth.

I think a truer picture of the situation is more likely represented by the celebrations going on down in South Florida by Venezuelan ex-pats.

[BBW Katrina]

Lol @ timpage

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The people I've talked to who have come from Venezuela have horror stories about Chavez. And these were poor people in Venezuela. He crushed dissent, controlled the news and hung around with other brutal despots. Yes, he took from the rich, gave some to the poor, but kept most for himself. His net worth is reported at about $4 billion. Surely the presidency didn't pay that much. He was a corrupt, brutal dictator.

And now he has created a nation of takers, wondering who will take care of us now?

No wonder he supported Obama. Not a hell of a lot of difference there.

judging from the number of people that showed up to pay their respects his people must have really hated his ass ...

[Sandsailor]

Great discussion. I remember when Eisenhower supported Castro for throwing out the corrupt regime of Batista and now all who fled -presumably living off the labor of the vast populace- are now heroes of Democracy. I guess it all depends on which side of the transaction you are on; throwing out the mafia in Havana so your capitalist cronies can take over only to be thwarted by a bunch of Commies. Maybe they were all actually feminists and labor organizers?!?

[Texas Contrarian]

I'm never surprised when a couple of the entertainment world's dim-witted buffoons cozy up to some left-wing "champion of the people."

But folks who seem to want to be well informed, yet seriously believe that Chavez should have been revered by Venezuela's disadvantaged masses, ought to step back and think about that for a just moment. Hasn't the world offered plenty of lessons on what forms of governance work, and what do not?

Just look at Botswana and Zimbabwe. Both started from about the same place in the 1960s. The latter killed any potential for growth and development with a repressive, corrupt dictatorship (involving pseudo-elections), and never even made a pretense of bringing about conditions where businesses had much chance of flourishing. But Botswana established markets, private property rights, a semi-reasonable judiciary, and a banking system that actually functions like it's not being run by some sort of self-serving generalissimo.

The results are plain to see. Botswana's GDP/capita is many times that of Zimbabwe.

Chavez was obviously not as bad as Mugabe, Kim Jong Un, or Castro, but his model of governance was much closer to that of Zimbabwe than to that of Botswana. The oil wealth he commanded gave him a chance to pay off enough of Venezuela's downtrodden that many of them think they're "getting a good deal." They are not.

Venezuela's GDP per capita is less that that of Botswana, despite the former's vast oil wealth.

Can you think of an excuse for that?

I cannot.

[CJ7]

not much difference between Chavez padding his pockets on the back of his country, and Bush/Cheney passing out government contracts to Halliburton and KBR ...

oh wait, Chavez didnt start 2 wars to pad his pockets didi he? ... mea culpa.

this country has whats known as vast oil wealth , and consequently has millions of poor people ... should there be an excuse for that? I can think of one ... POLITICS.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by CJ7

not much difference between Chavez padding his pockets on the back of his country, and Bush/Cheney passing out government contracts to Halliburton and KBR ...

oh wait, Chavez didnt start 2 wars to pad his pockets didi he? ... mea culpa.

this country has whats known as vast oil wealth , and consequently has millions of poor people ... should there be an excuse for that? I can think of one ... POLITICS.

Huh??

While the level of crony capitalism in the U.S. is bad enough, it's miniscule compared with what's been going on in Venezuela. And we burn far more oil than we produce, while the opposite is obviously the case with Venezuela. Its economy is very heavily oil export-dependent.

Was your post intended to be an implied defense of Venezuela's economic model, or were you just in the mood to toss out a couple of clueless sounding non sequiturs this afternoon?

[SinsOfTheFlesh]

Originally Posted by CJ7

not much difference between Chavez padding his pockets on the back of his country, and Bush/Cheney passing out government contracts to Halliburton and KBR ...

oh wait, Chavez didnt start 2 wars to pad his pockets didi he? ... mea culpa.

this country has whats known as vast oil wealth , and consequently has millions of poor people ... should there be an excuse for that? I can think of one ... POLITICS.

Why aren't the no-bid contracts awarded by Clinton's administration to Haliburton and KBR as evil as the same contracts awarded by the Bush administration.

You know, liberals would have more credibility if your sense of outrage wasn't so flexible depending on who's ass is warming the chair in the Oval Office.

[CJ7]

not much I can think of that Chavev did had a direct impact on me or this country, my opinion of the man cant change anything he did. As long as his people liked him who am I to judge him ?

non sequiturs ??? like Bosnia and Zimbabwe?

Im not a Chavez fan. I could care less about him, his wealth, or his history

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by SinsOfTheFlesh

Why aren't the no-bid contracts awarded by Clinton's administration to Haliburton and KBR as evil as the same contracts awarded by the Bush administration.

You know, liberals would have more credibility if your sense of outrage wasn't so flexible depending on who's ass is warming the chair in the Oval Office.

HUH? seriously?

Why aren't the no-bid contracts awarded by Clinton's administration to Haliburton and KBR as evil as the same contracts awarded by the Bush administration.

maybe becuse the taxpayers have been picking up the tab for the Bush Cheney contracts for well over a fucking decade .. Clinton , not so much

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by CJ7

non sequiturs ??? like Bosnia and Zimbabwe?

It would be interesting to see you try to explain how those were non sequiturs, given that my point was obviously a simple comparison of what types of economic models and systems of governance work well, and what do not.

That country pair offers an excellent example for those interested in learning more about the issue, and it should be clear to you that Chavez's model resembled Zimbabwe's far more than Botswana's.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

It would be interesting to see you try to explain how those were non sequiturs, given that my point was obviously a simple comparison of what types of economic models and systems of government work well, and what do not.

That country pair offers an excellent example for those interested in learning more about the issue, and it should be clear to you that Chavez's model resembled Zimbabwe's far more than Botswana's.

what part of this escapes you?

" I could care less about him, his wealth, or his history "

The End.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I doubt if you will run into us at the movie theater, Assup. We usually attend reputable theaters, not the ones in the back of the adult stores like you frequent. In fact, I saw the Russell Crowe movie last night, Broken City. Pretty good. Unfortunately, the front of the theater didn't sell sex toys and videos, so I didn't expect to see you there.

Technically, Assup doesn't attend adult video arcade movies; although he is the attendant. He's the guy that mops up the splooge.