ABU GHRAIB PART II

[waverunner234]

Every solder is accountable for every one he kills.

Sacrifices they must make.?????????????????????

Killing? Is that a sacrifice?

I know America is proud when you do, but what does the rest of the world think?
(That's the other 95%)

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by waverunner234

Sacrifices they must make.?????????????????????

Killing? Is that a sacrifice?

Yeah, one can see you have a problem with a concept like "sacrifice". You probably also have a problem with concepts like: "duty", "honor" and "country".

One vet blogged (Huffington or Stars and Stripes?) about the pictures. His summation probably best expresses the sentiments of millions of vets and personnel still on active duty. He wrote: "You [addressing the men in the pictures] have just pissed away everything I've fought for."

"Fighting" for something you believe in is probably another concept that's alien to you, right Wave?

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

It is not a put down of our servicemen and women, but that is a fact. I respect and honor all our citizens in uniform, which is why I don't think the soldiers in question should be fully held accountable for their actions. It is part of their training to dehumanize the enemy, otherwise they wouldn't be able to kill them. I appreciate everything they do for me, and I respect the sacrifices they must make. This is one of the reasons I am so opposed to war, unless we are genuinely threatened. The human toll from war includes many more than just the dead and injured. Why do you think so many of our soldiers come back with some sort of PTSD? Why is the rate of suicide so high among combat veterans? They can't reconcile what they have done with who they are. It's a horrible price to pay. This is why we must stop sending them into stupid and illegal wars. If we truly respected our soldiers, we would never send them into combat unless the US was directly and genuinely threatened.

That's the way it is, Your Assholiness. Now STFU.

A really nice flight out of reality.
Every solder is responsible for what he does, including killing.
And that's what our solders are: killing machines!!!!

Think twice next time you see a solder and want to say: thank you for your service.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by waverunner234

A really nice flight out of reality.
Every solder is responsible for what he does, including killing.
And that's what our solders are: killing machines!!!!

Think twice next time you see a solder and want to say: thank you for your service.

It’s all well and good that Anne Frank never had to contend with someone like you.


Oh, that’s right! She did!


It was people like you who sat on their hands waiting to be rescued by the British and American servicemen you now demean. Meanwhile, poor Anne was betrayed by someone like you – someone who saw/sees no higher purpose than “self”. Subsequently, Anne was sent to be murdered in a Nazi death camp while people like you sat on their hands and waited.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by waverunner234

A really nice flight out of reality.
Every solder is responsible for what he does, including killing.
And that's what our solders are: killing machines!!!!

Think twice next time you see a solder and want to say: thank you for your service.

Wow. You have no idea. You are a sad person, Wave.

[TheDaliLama]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

It is not a put down of our servicemen and women, but that is a fact.

Really? A Fact?
Tell us how they are "trained to hate" COG.
Do they get a service pin for passing that course?

[CuteOldGuy]

You're right, Your Assholiness. The military teaches sensitivity and tolerance.

The fact is there is no way you can send someone out to kill fellow human beings unless the "enemy" is first dehumanized. That is why the enemies are not called "Vietnamese" or "Japanese" or "German". They are called gooks, nips or krauts. You can't have any feelings for your enemies, or you wouldn't be able to kill them.

I'm not approving what the soldiers did, it was a horrible act of disrespect and they should be punished, but let's accept what they have to go through. The Taliban are not people to them, they are not sons with a mother praying for their safe return, or a husband/wife with a spouse dreading the day when the Chaplain knocks on her door, or a Father, with children wondering if they will ever see their dad again. No, they are the enemy, animals to be hunted and killed. And that's the way it has to be in war. A soldier can't think in any other way and be a good, effective soldier.

If the military taught them to "love their enemy and to bless those who persecute them" then the soldier could not kill. At least could not kill and retain any semblance of mental health. It's hard enough to maintain mental health when you are able to compartmentalize the killing.

That's what I meant, not to excuse the soldiers, but to understand them. They are not these horrible people committing an atrocity, they are normal people reacting to an abnormal, horrifying situation. We all have our defense mechanisms. If anything, the military should train them to find more suitable outlets to relieve the pressure.

I will never know what combat is like, I hope. And I respect and honor every one who has been in that situation, because I'm not sure I could handle it better than they. And again, this is one more reason why we should never put our troops in harm's way without a DAMN GOOD REASON that isn't to enrich the defense and oil industries.

And Wave, whenever I see a soldier or veteran, I will thank them. I may not agree with our foreign policy, but if they are going to do that to protect me, I will appreciate it.

[Whirlaway]

The soldiers probably just got out of a heavy firefight and were doing what warriors have done for centuries.

I think this is an overblow story. If the military brass punish these guys with dishonorable dischange, shame on them.

[edr1322]

My self putting a couple of tours in SE Asia years ago. I have seen what the enemy did to our KIA. After an encounter you are picking up your wounded and dead. You come up on one your fellow soilders dead and find him with his penis cut off and stuck in his mouth. I could go on but please dont judge these men harshly. They are fighting for us and you dont know what they go thru daily. Just my 2 cents. Ed

[Txfishkiller]

i am really surprised the left liberal media let this slip out. did not think this kind of behavior was possible in the nicey, nice touchy feely let NATO handle thinks Obummer admin!!

[Iaintliein]

Shoot at Marines and bad things can happen to you; we certainly wouldn't want to send that message now would we?

Dock 'em each a week's pay, two for the guy with the camera. If that dosen't suite Karzi tell him we've decided to piss on the whole damned country and leave him to the tender mercies of his Taliban "brothers".

Meanwhile, in related news: Marines have liberated dozens of sex slaves held by the Taliban.

http://moonbattery.com/?p=6798

[Laz]

I do not believe they are trained to hate but they are trained to be indifferent to the enemy as anything other than an obstacle to the mission. However, expecting a soldier to see his or her friends killed and injured and not be angry enough to do things that would be considered inappropriate, by people that have not shared their experiences, is absurd. In the scheme of evils that occur during war Abu Ghraib and pissing on a few dead Taliban are nothing. They are just excuses people use to advance their cause. There are no cameras showing how they abuse prisoners and even when it is shown they don't care.

[waverunner234]

I could feel something for guys who go in the army TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY.
But to go overseas to kill people in a useless war no one asked for, and to rape their own female buddies?

Sorry, that goes beyond me. They are the worst kind of criminals and should be treated like that.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

The soldiers probably just got out of a heavy firefight and were doing what warriors have done for centuries.

I think this is an overblow story. If the military brass punish these guys with dishonorable dischange, shame on them.

So just because they have done it for centuries it is okay to rape your female buddy and to kill someone else's son or daughter or innocent child?

It is not an overblown story, it is the every day practice of the military who we are so proud of, just this one was caught on camera.
I just wonder how much misery is out there that we didn't get to see?

[Laz]

Originally Posted by waverunner234

I could feel something for guys who go in the army TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY.
But to go overseas to kill people in a useless war no one asked for, and to rape their own female buddies?

Sorry, that goes beyond me. They are the worst kind of criminals and should be treated like that.

I had you on ignore but was dumb enough to look and see what you had to say. You are still an idiot. Back to ignore.