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boardman · 04-29-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

Hope the Texans do well too obviously, but if there were ever a year to just tank a bunch of games, this up coming season would be the time. Johnny Football is probably coming out next year, I think he'd be worth it.

But there are not that many teams in our conference that are great, so we're going to have a really good shot at getting to the superbowl again.

I think the Jags got pretty good players from the draft, it's a good thing they have Gabbert though...

The Jaguars are the most likely team to tank for Manziel. Other than him next years class of QB's isn't much more impressive than this year's. Hell, Zach Mettenberger is projected as the # 5 quarterback and he is horrible.
Manziel has a Montana-esque presence and confidence on the field that makes everyone around him better. He's not gonna sneak up on anyone like he did last year. I still don't know how Alabama let him get away with what he did. It's not like they didn't have film on the guy. If he runs the SEC gauntlet like he did last year I think he will be the real deal. All the other tangible tools are there...arm strength, accuracy, speed and quickness. It should be an exciting season at A & M. I'll be rooting for him except for the LSU game.

Wakeup · 04-29-2013, 04:27 PM

Why would anyone want Manziel?? In the last 25 years, Heisman trophy winning quarterbacks have won a grand total of one, and only one, NFL playoff game...

TheDon · 04-29-2013, 04:30 PM

I see what you're saying about the next draft, but I think Mariota (kid from Oregon) is going to be just as good as him, and if he comes out too, I think it will be similar to last year's draft with RG3 and Luck, I think they both will be "can't miss prospects."

I also think either Tajh Boyd, Braxton Miller, or Teddy Bridgewater will end up being great QB's as well. Hogan from Stanford also looks promising.

But yeah, outside of that, I'm not too high on the rest of the guys. But these 5-6 guys I just mentioned, I'd take any of them over the guys we just saw this year (maybe except Manuel and Barkley)

TheDon · 04-29-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

Why would anyone want Manziel?? In the last 25 years, Heisman trophy winning quarterbacks have won a grand total of one, and only one, NFL playoff game...

Funny...

You didn't happen to follow that Robert Griffin kid last year did you? Or maybe that kid from Auburn a couple years ago?

Manziel is better than both of them.

TheDon · 04-29-2013, 05:13 PM

Just signed Collin Klein, I like that move.

We now have Dopey, Yates, McGee, Keenum, and Klein.

Love Keenum, but he should be the first one out for the cuts, he's not going to be a factor in the league. Would rather have McGee over Yates. Wonder how Klein will do, preseason should be interesting.

jstone420 · 04-29-2013, 08:12 PM

He's playing tight end not Qb

Jusanotherdude · 04-29-2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

Manziel is better than both of them.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves now.....

TheDon · 04-30-2013, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

Lets not get ahead of ourselves now.....

Statistically, he had a better year last year than Griffin did in his final year. He also had only one loss on his record while Griffin had around 3 or 4, and against better competition

Just judging by the eye test, I thought he looked better than both Griffin and Cam in their best seasons, he's working on getting thicker, so I'd imagine he's only going to get better. But personally, I actually think Mariota might end up being a better pro than Manziel, I really love what he brings to the table, but this might be another debate to have another day.

I'd love to hear the argument against Manziel, I was on the other side of the fence at one point regarding him and his play early last season, but I'm all in on him now, 100% sold.

With the way the game is going to be changed, these guys (all QB's mentioned) are going to change the game, and I think Mariota and Manziel have a great shot at being the best in the NFL very soon. Sounds like a bold statement, I know, but just looking at guys like Kaep and Russell Willson, and how far they came along in just one year, I don't think it's too far of a stretch. Aaron Rodgers said recently that he thinks this trend is going to end, I say he's dead wrong.

TheDon · 04-30-2013, 12:32 AM

And I realize my post above contradicts what I said about us having a chance to win it all this year, but I don't think the change is going to happen over the course of one season, I'd say it will be at least three or four years minimum..... Especially after Brady and Manning are retried, I surely don't see another straight pocket passer winning another superbowl, by then, more than half the league will have a guy like Kaep, Griffin, Manziel under center.

And the few guys remaining who are primarily known for just passing, will be able to run the ball too, (Rodgers, Luck). Both guys can throw, but they're mobile as well.

Also think another big factor that plays into this is how well Chip Kelly succeeds with Phily, depending on how good he does (or bad), it could delay or increase the "movement."

Guest082824 · 04-30-2013, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Agreed. I wish the talking heads would do a three year look back on each team especially on Day 3 of the draft. You keep hearing about the same "upside", "slide rationale", "value" etc about each pick - it gets monotonous. I'd like to hear about the draft track record of each GM.

Hmmm....Where are they now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnadfly

I still don't believe Jerry trading down to pick a center in the first round that would have gone in the 3rd round.

That shit was just...plain...STUPID!
Almost as much as him giving Tony Homo $55 Million guaranteed this year

Jusanotherdude · 04-30-2013, 01:45 AM

Don..... hate to break it to you.... but throwing that statement out is a bit rash.... like I said..... let's not get ahead of ourselves.....

Go check again..... both Cam's and RG3s stats were as good and better than Manziels..... if you want to further the debate, Look at Keanums stats at UH.... Keanums final year stats are simply retarded for even a video game..... Sumlin is a bad man..... Manziel is gifted athletically but is still incredibly raw and still far too inconsistent a passer.....

While having SOME mobility is key, and helpful in todays NFL, it will never suppliant the need to be insanely accurate with the ball.... name the last overly mobile QB to win the Superbowl..... Flacco Eli Peyton Brady Dilfer Warner are flat out immobile, Big Ben, Rogers Brees and an aging Elway while athletic and mobile would never be confused as running or hybrid type QBs.... and those are your last 15 super bowl champs.....

Randall Cunningham was the first QB that was going to "change the game" when he replaced Jaworsky in the 80's.... while being able to extend plays now and again is absolutely a requisite this day and age, the best will still be the ones who are deadly accurate that throw first, second, third, and run fourth....

Manziel is off to a good start..... but his size and accuracy so far are working against him..... but he's still young..... highlights are great.... but keep in mind the offensive mind behind the highlights, and the best O-line in the SEC and possibly the country helping him out.... watch the actual tape and you will see too many missed throws....

boardman · 04-30-2013, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

Also think another big factor that plays into this is how well Chip Kelly succeeds with Phily, depending on how good he does (or bad), it could delay or increase the "movement."

^^^^^^This will be interesting. If he has success it will definitely change the game.

This is a pretty fair assessment of Manziel's game. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...to-new-heights

TheDon · 04-30-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

Don..... hate to break it to you.... but throwing that statement out is a bit rash.... like I said..... let's not get ahead of ourselves.....

Go check again..... both Cam's and RG3s stats were as good and better than Manziels..... if you want to further the debate, Look at Keanums stats at UH.... Keanums final year stats are simply retarded for even a video game..... Sumlin is a bad man..... Manziel is gifted athletically but is still incredibly raw and still far too inconsistent a passer.....

While having SOME mobility is key, and helpful in todays NFL, it will never suppliant the need to be insanely accurate with the ball.... name the last overly mobile QB to win the Superbowl..... Flacco Eli Peyton Brady Dilfer Warner are flat out immobile, Big Ben, Rogers Brees and an aging Elway while athletic and mobile would never be confused as running or hybrid type QBs.... and those are your last 15 super bowl champs.....

Randall Cunningham was the first QB that was going to "change the game" when he replaced Jaworsky in the 80's.... while being able to extend plays now and again is absolutely a requisite this day and age, the best will still be the ones who are deadly accurate that throw first, second, third, and run fourth....

Manziel is off to a good start..... but his size and accuracy so far are working against him..... but he's still young..... highlights are great.... but keep in mind the offensive mind behind the highlights, and the best O-line in the SEC and possibly the country helping him out.... watch the actual tape and you will see too many missed throws....

We'll just have to wait and see as far as this goes, I don't think it's too far of a stretch. Only time will tell.

Interesting, can't speak for Cam, but I remember reading a couple of articles stating that the numbers between Griffin and Manziel favored Manziel, would love to find the stats if I could, nothing shows up on google besides garbage from the bleacher report. Maybe you can show me otherwise?....Alright, as far as the Keenum comparison, I don't agree with it at all. He put up those numbers because he played in conference USA , I watched most of their games that year, it was a joke, very similar to the great years Kolb had for UH......I didn't watch all of the TAMU games, but from what I saw from Manziel, I thought he was pretty accurate in every time I saw him, that Bama game comes to mind, I thought he was lights out. Regardless, he was still just a freshman, he's only going to get better with accuracy, mechanics, and strength.

This is the argument I've been hearing since bringing up the "QB mobility" subject. There obviously has not been a mobile QB like Cam to win a superbowl yet, but that's because these guys are just now entering league...These guys like Cunningham, Vick, etc. They were all brought in to be groomed as pass first guys (I can't speak to Cunningham on that, never watched him), but it is completely different now, and will continue to be. The defenses now are extremely vulnerable with the new rules, and running out of the spread is going to become more and more effective (as we are seeing with QB's running the read option, Russell Wilson, Kaep, Griffin), these guys are going to be the ones winning championships in future years. All these guys can run and throw. You mention guys like Differ and Manning, they will still have a chance in the next few years. But very soon, the league will no longer have guys like them around. The streak of guys like that winning SB's will be ending soon.

Again, I didn't see too much wrong with his game, I guess I'll have to look back at some of the tape, maybe you can tell me which games you are particularly talking about? The games against OU and Bama were the ones I watched most intently. I think you can find flaws in every player though if you analyze too much. And yeah, TAMU was loaded last year, but they will be loaded again this year, he probably has/going to have more talent to work with than Luck or Cam had, certainly more than RG3, but he's also playing better competition, that is also worth noting.

TheDon · 04-30-2013, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman

^^^^^^This will be interesting. If he has success it will definitely change the game.

This is a pretty fair assessment of Manziel's game. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...to-new-heights

Hmmm, I just trashed this site in my post above, just clicked the article, I'll give it a read soon. But the way the Bleacher report basically hogs up any/every sport search kind of pisses me off. I wonder how much money the shelled out to do that? I'm not saying their site sucks (I actually like it), just seeing it so many times is annoying...

Jusanotherdude · 04-30-2013, 03:19 PM

Here ya go bossman!!

Cam
Http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...-newton-1.html

RG3

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...fin-iii-1.html

Keenum

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...-keenum-1.html

Manziel

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...manziel-1.html

And just for fun.... The Tebow... check the '07 season.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...m-tebow-1.html