Political Discussion thread

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by lostforkate

ok, posted this in two different threads, hope the outcome below never comes to fruition, but was an election won based on needs, be ready to see ur taxes triple to support the spending plan

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

Taxes triple? really. You lose all credibility when you make such nonsensical statements. The republican plan of tax cutting and spending like a drunken sailor is what got the country into the fiscal mess it's in today.

[montana1958]

Originally Posted by Doove

And how did that work out for ya?

Not quite the way I was hoping doove.

But it is what it is and for all 47% of Americans who don't pay a penny to our federal tax system (I know they pay sales tax and fed regulation taxes and if working pay social security for their own retirement), they kept their man in power to continue getting by without paying. Now he pushes the tax the wealthy program which they say brings in 800 billion dollars over 10 years or 80 billion dollars per year. So next years deficit goes from 1.4 trillion to 1.32 trillion. A start for sure. But where will we all be in 2016 with a federal deficit over 20 or 21 trillion. Now that he is re-elected you will see the media start reporting more honestly and all the horrible economic signs in the future.

Good luck doove and all who voted for Obama. You got what you wanted and now that he has more flexability we will see what he does. One good thing that comes from this and his not running for office again, maybe he will not go on a four year campaigning tour and actually stay in the White House doing the peoples business. I know too funny. I was actually laughing when I was typing this.




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[Doove]

Originally Posted by GP

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...CBS-Covered-Up

does this help?

Ok, watched it. Here's a tip - when you try to base an election on that video, and what words a President used to describe a riot, you're going to be losing a lot of elections.

Originally Posted by montana1958

But it is what it is and for all 47% of Americans who don't pay a penny to our federal tax system (I know they pay sales tax and fed regulation taxes and if working pay social security for their own retirement), they kept their man in power to continue getting by without paying.

My father is a veteran who suffers from MS. He's currently living in a nursing home and he's one of the 47% that you bitch about.

I dare you to ask me what i think of you and your kind. Go ahead, ask.

Now he pushes the tax the wealthy program which they say brings in 800 billion dollars over 10 years or 80 billion dollars per year. So next years deficit goes from 1.4 trillion to 1.32 trillion. A start for sure. But where will we all be in 2016 with a federal deficit over 20 or 21 trillion.

Yeah, nevermind the fact that Romney's plan was projected to increase the debt by 20% more than Obama's.

[offshoredrilling]

Originally Posted by Doove

My father is a veteran who suffers from MS. He's currently living in a nursing home and he's one of the 47% that you bitch about.

I dare you to ask me what i think of you and your kind. Go ahead, ask.



Yeah, nevermind the fact that Romney's plan was projected to increase the debt by 20% more than Obama's.

first part:
thanks for his service to his nation.
I hope the nation can afford to keep payin for his care when we all have a Oblama phone. edit: errrrrr that Bush 2 funded, so really a Bush phone.



2nd part LINK LOL

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by montana1958

Not quite the way I was hoping doove.

But it is what it is and for all 47% of Americans who don't pay a penny to our federal tax system (I know they pay sales tax and fed regulation taxes and if working pay social security for their own retirement), they kept their man in power to continue getting by without paying. Now he pushes the tax the wealthy program which they say brings in 800 billion dollars over 10 years or 80 billion dollars per year. So next years deficit goes from 1.4 trillion to 1.32 trillion. A start for sure. But where will we all be in 2016 with a federal deficit over 20 or 21 trillion. Now that he is re-elected you will see the media start reporting more honestly and all the horrible economic signs in the future.

Good luck doove and all who voted for Obama. You got what you wanted and now that he has more flexability we will see what he does. One good thing that comes from this and his not running for office again, maybe he will not go on a four year campaigning tour and actually stay in the White House doing the peoples business. I know too funny. I was actually laughing when I was typing this.




.

Luckily the more fiscally conservative candidate won last night. Romney's plan for a 5 trillion dollar tax cut and increased defense spending was a recipe for exploding deficits. We'vve been down that road before with reagan and bush and look what happened, 10 trillion dollars of debt. Reagan added 2 trillion in debt, with 30 years interest that's about 5 trillion. How much of the debt incurred over the last 4 years has been interest on the national debt left by the 2 bushes and reagan? About half. The fact is republicans shoveled the same old shit and the public didn't buy it. Republicans largely created this mess we're in and have yet to take responsibbility for it. I saw Juan williams on fox last night saying that exit poliing showed 50% of those polled still blamed bush for the economic crisis.
So you want to balance the budget on the backs of high school and college students. That's a large percentage of the 47% who don't pay taxes. How many of those are low income seniors? Are they part of the group" that kept their man in power without having to pay for it". I think not. It seems republicans like to keep their men in power without paying for it. 2 unfunded wars, an unfunded prescription drug benefit for seniors, doubling the defense budget while cutting taxes and you have the nerve to blame our fiscal woes on students and the poor. Really?

[diehrd]

Some of you liberals need to read Atlas Shrugged .. Look America was the land of opportunity not hand outs . Millions of people like me think your bad choices like drugs or making babies should not include tax payers supporting you and the same for people who sneak in and cost us billions.

When someone says 47% and you attack as if there demeaning the retired all you are doing is avoiding discussion on my above point , the fact 47% is mentioned is to show the severity of our crisis not demean or degrade people who earned a retirement or are truly disabled .

Now we have 4 more years of hand outs that are out of control and will get worse , 4 more years of the EPA , osha and other gov agencys stepping all over business. WHICH BY THE WAY are owned by your neighbors and friends.

How any clear thinking american bought the rich vs poor argument is flat out insane. Our issues are not dem or rep , rich vs poor , color vs non color ... OUR issue and every nation on earths issue is GOVERNMENT..It always has been and now thanks to last nights vote even more an issue in America.

Imagine if the millions who claim a fake back pain or made babies actually did not get cash and paid some taxes ,,, DONT YOU think that is fair ? If you care about older family the ones stealing from them are not Apple or IBM but the people who lie cheat and steal from the system by the tens of millions..With out that every elderly person and truly handicapped person could live in dignity while the liars and people of bad choices could live in squalor as they have chosen.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by diehrd

Some of you liberals need to read Atlas Shrugged

And another point that's in line with all the Libya nonsense - when you base your political and economic philosophy on the characters in a fictional novel, you'll continue to lose elections. But i guess when The Bible isn't working for ya anymore, move on to the next one, eh?

When someone says 47% and you attack as if there demeaning the retired all you are doing is avoiding discussion on my above point , the fact 47% is mentioned is to show the severity of our crisis not demean or degrade people who earned a retirement or are truly disabled.

Oh? Then go find out how many of that 47% is comprised of retired or truly disabled people and then get back to me with a more accurate number. Until then, you're not using the 47% figure to show the severity of the problem, you're using it to exaggerate the severity of the problem.

[offshoredrilling]

what ever the number, the welfare and SSI cheat is the problem.

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

what ever the number, the welfare and SSI cheat is the problem.

The waste in the defense department outweighs the welfare cheaters by a wide margin.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

what ever the number, the welfare and SSI cheat is the problem.

And what percentage of welfare and SSI recipients are "cheaters"?

And what percentage of the 47% are comprised of those "cheaters"?

[drluv1]

Originally Posted by diehrd

Some of you liberals need to read Atlas Shrugged .. Look America was the land of opportunity not hand outs . Millions of people like me think your bad choices like drugs or making babies should not include tax payers supporting you and the same for people who sneak in and cost us billions.

When someone says 47% and you attack as if there demeaning the retired all you are doing is avoiding discussion on my above point , the fact 47% is mentioned is to show the severity of our crisis not demean or degrade people who earned a retirement or are truly disabled .

Now we have 4 more years of hand outs that are out of control and will get worse , 4 more years of the EPA , osha and other gov agencys stepping all over business. WHICH BY THE WAY are owned by your neighbors and friends.

How any clear thinking american bought the rich vs poor argument is flat out insane. Our issues are not dem or rep , rich vs poor , color vs non color ... OUR issue and every nation on earths issue is GOVERNMENT..It always has been and now thanks to last nights vote even more an issue in America.

Imagine if the millions who claim a fake back pain or made babies actually did not get cash and paid some taxes ,,, DONT YOU think that is fair ? If you care about older family the ones stealing from them are not Apple or IBM but the people who lie cheat and steal from the system by the tens of millions..With out that every elderly person and truly handicapped person could live in dignity while the liars and people of bad choices could live in squalor as they have chosen.

Conservatives need a reality check, While welfare fraud may cost us billions,Ill advised interventions in foreign lands cost us trillions. The voters of colorado and washington certainly did something last night to get government off their backs,but the large majority of conservatives don't believe in that form of freedom. The trillion dollar war on prohibited topic substances has lowered prices, increased quality and left our inner cities in shambles. Is that what they intended?
You fail to mention all of our businessmen, you know our friends and neighbors, who cheat the system which easily out weighs the welfare cheats. If you don't realize a business is a license to steal, you are a fool.

[offshoredrilling]

with no drafting(there should be) are military has way to many contractors. For things that should be in house. Darn I hate to say that.

[offshoredrilling]

Originally Posted by Doove

And what percentage of welfare and SSI recipients are "cheaters"?

And what percentage of the 47% are comprised of those "cheaters"?

That I would like to know also. But going by who I know on SSI and welfare. better than 1/2 of working age. With them shitting out kids for a raise in pay. Not that want a kid. they want the cash.

[jokacz]

SSI disability is total bullshit. It's a pension plan for lazy white trash.
The defense department is corporate welfare.
Health care and big pharma are the real villain in the piece that is sucking us dry.
7 figure per annum specialists and low life PAs making 100k plus a year.
The health care industry in the U.S. alone is almost as big in dollars as the entire petroleum industry for the entire WORLD.
The volunteer armed forces is a job/scholarship program for the unemployable.
The draft scares the generals to death; am I the only one that remembers "FRAGGING"?

[montana1958]

Originally Posted by Doove

My father is a veteran who suffers from MS. He's currently living in a nursing home and he's one of the 47% that you bitch about.

I dare you to ask me what i think of you and your kind. Go ahead, ask.






Yeah, nevermind the fact that Romney's plan was projected to increase the debt by 20% more than Obama's.

I don't know how to do the multiple quote thing so to your first point about your father he is not who we are talking about and I think everyone knows that. He may or may not fall in that category but being a veteran should be taken care of. The class warfare argument made this election I believe has really divided this country.This class warfare needs to end but I am afraid it may just be heating up.


As for your second point time will tell doove. Obama ran his first campaign on reducing the deficit in half from George Bush. Bush added 4 trillion over 8 years or about 500 billion per year. So that meant it should have been 250 billion per year for his 4 years or 1 trillion. He increased it by 6 trillion. He was off a little. Now you listen to the Democrat talking points and say Romney would have been higher over the next 4 years. It is something we will never know. But tell me where govt projections are ever right. In a year Obama expenses start kicking in. We will see how close the projections from 2 years ago will be. I for one am very worried about that. I believe you will hear very soon how the deficit limit will need to be raised to 18 trillion. I think they shoud ask what they need for the entire 4 years and let the public see that number.

The market is down today, I'm still in cash so I say let it fall and lets get some good inflation going and higher interest rates so the cash can earn a decent rate of return. Copied right out of my 1% playbook.