It's about to get ugly out there

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by rogerdodger21

What?? No white guys.?? That means it's not legit. Carry on. You are safe. YOu have nothing to worry about. I bet Governor Abbot and Ken Paxton were there and telling them who to arrest and who not arrest.
Or maybe they just put out a sign for "Free food, free money, and free everything else" and all the Hispanics came running.
IT kind of stands to reason the racial disposition turned out the way it did when there are hardly any white people who even live in Houston anymore.

Typical fools /liberals/racists(all one in the same) - it is always about race. You don't have an iota of reason or common sense - anything and everything is about race.
This is why our country is dying.

In case you didn't know it was a Democrat that put the Sept 1 bill to vote on and it passed making it a felony for paying for sex.
So I am not sure why you are blaming Abbot or Paxton?

[Bush_Pilot]

Originally Posted by wiggy

In case you didn't know it was a Democrat that put the Sept 1 bill to vote on and it passed making it a felony for paying for sex.
So I am not sure why you are blaming Abbot or Paxton?

Let it go, Wiggy. You’re questioning someone who appears to be clinging to sanity by a thread. That one post had at least 3 different personalities in it.

[JustforFun2012]

Originally Posted by mynameismudd

They do not think they can eliminate ot. This new law is a cash cow and they get to hide behind the almost non-existent "human trafficking"

Spot on Mudd. The only large confirmed case of human trafficking I know of was the dancing bars on 610E. Sure there's some cases here and there but that's one and it was what, 10 years ago??

[JustforFun2012]

I've been meaning to ask this of the group and get opinions and bring this back to AMPs. Let's debate:

If LE wants to bust the customers within an AMP they need video, UC on the lady (how in lingerie?) or within the room already. IF that happens the most likely case is they have busted the place and installed cams. That can likely go down without any of us knowing or just a little murmur of discussion realistically.

Now to get an adequate case LE needs to prove the motive and the act-you are asking to pay for sex. It can be under code words, hand gestures, etc. and they CAN explain that to a jury. It doesn't matter if 'Shabang' is the new code word they can explain that to a judge or jury, no problem. LE has explained all the drug lingo and street lingo for years.

That, in my non-lawyer opinion, will get you busted; however, if you don't say anything, or say 'for your time' even under your breath, I'd argue that's reasonable doubt.

How does every provider still exist and hasn't already been busted? Because most providers you're paying for their time. You pay consultants, accountants, lawyers for their time and that's all 100% legal. The other angle is you're paying for modeling clothes. That and I'm pretty sure, trying to say this in a non-racist way, that almost every AMP in the Chinatown area Mr. Nguyen, Mr. Chen, etc. all has LE working with them or at least passing by. Also there's some precedent debated before on the board when a certain coach got busted in Jupiter FL. How did that happen? With UC video everywhere folks, it's in the news just look it up. Good lawyers I'm sure got him out of that but the overall % bust of customers coming in was low. I want to say that one article said 'hundreds of men came through' but there were something like 40 busts. Think about it, all the conditions above must line up and be ON VIDEO clearly. No judge or jury would trust any testimony of a provider so you must have video. There's a lot that can go wrong for LE.

So back to the debate, and in the forum this is in-AMPs, forget the street (even in the old days that was under 'Other'), how realistic do you think an AMP bust is? I say it's very, very low for all the reasons above. And to the unnamed guy before telling me to get busted, oh hell no I'll leave that to you.

[zxcv101]

Originally Posted by JustforFun2012

I've been meaning to ask this of the group and get opinions and bring this back to AMPs. Let's debate:

If LE wants to bust the customers within an AMP they need video, UC on the lady (how in lingerie?) or within the room already. IF that happens the most likely case is they have busted the place and installed cams. That can likely go down without any of us knowing or just a little murmur of discussion realistically.

Now to get an adequate case LE needs to prove the motive and the act-you are asking to pay for sex. It can be under code words, hand gestures, etc. and they CAN explain that to a jury. It doesn't matter if 'Shabang' is the new code word they can explain that to a judge or jury, no problem. LE has explained all the drug lingo and street lingo for years.

That, in my non-lawyer opinion, will get you busted; however, if you don't say anything, or say 'for your time' even under your breath, I'd argue that's reasonable doubt.

How does every provider still exist and hasn't already been busted? Because most providers you're paying for their time. You pay consultants, accountants, lawyers for their time and that's all 100% legal. The other angle is you're paying for modeling clothes. That and I'm pretty sure, trying to say this in a non-racist way, that almost every AMP in the Chinatown area Mr. Nguyen, Mr. Chen, etc. all has LE working with them or at least passing by. Also there's some precedent debated before on the board when a certain coach got busted in Jupiter FL. How did that happen? With UC video everywhere folks, it's in the news just look it up. Good lawyers I'm sure got him out of that but the overall % bust of customers coming in was low. I want to say that one article said 'hundreds of men came through' but there were something like 40 busts. Think about it, all the conditions above must line up and be ON VIDEO clearly. No judge or jury would trust any testimony of a provider so you must have video. There's a lot that can go wrong for LE.

So back to the debate, and in the forum this is in-AMPs, forget the street (even in the old days that was under 'Other'), how realistic do you think an AMP bust is? I say it's very, very low for all the reasons above. And to the unnamed guy before telling me to get busted, oh hell no I'll leave that to you.

You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. How many people have the legal firepower of someone like Robert Kraft? How many people could have their career stand up to that scrutiny? Much less their personal life.

And how likely is an AMP bust? They busted ALL the agencies once upon a time. If they can bust all of them on the same day, they can bust a simple AMP. Especially with the headlines of felony charges.

[arañanegra]

2.5 to 3.0 donation for indys.

[xfrankx]

Where's the ALCU when you need them ��

[Bush_Pilot]

Caution - long post ahead. If reading isn’t your thing, move on. You’ve been warned.

TL;DR - It’s all good. The sky is intact.

A couple years ago I was dating a woman who had brothers who were both cops. One afternoon we went to her brother’s place for a crawfish boil and most of the 50 or so people there were cops. HPD, HCSO, FBCSO, etc…

While I’m drinking my beer and getting my fill of bugs I was talking to the people at my table. We were having random discussions about cars and firearms when the guy across from me answered a question from another cop about his assignment the previous evening at Bombshells on 290. The SO’s brother was next to me and asked “waitress or customer?” He then nudged my elbow to fill me in that the guy talking about Bombshells was undercover vice.

Oh really? I have questions.

Brief tangent - cops are just like everyone else. Get them in a group of their peers around food and drinks and they will start telling all their stories. I’m a good listener and I’m pretty good at steering a conversation when I need to.

Where was I? Oh yeah…

I asked the vice cop about what led him to bombshells. He said someone filed a complaint so he went to watch the restaurant to see if he saw anyone “working”. Said he didn’t see anything, but that they would cycle a few UCs through there for a couple of weeks. Seemed bored by it.

I then asked him about SW. When I mentioned it he said “that’s not my gig, I work the clubs. Hold on a sec.” He yelled the name of someone who was walking into the backyard to get her attention and waved her over. She came to the table and they had a bit of small talk before he introduced us. He relayed my question to her and explained that she was also vice and worked the SW and hotel out-call beat. Had my SO not been sitting there I’d have and Encounter report for y’all.

Mmmm, Mmmm, Mmmm…

Because I wanted to sound naive, instead of asking about all the forms of P4P I just let them talk about all the different jobs they do. When the conversation veered of course I’d gently redirect it. They were sharing war stories and getting drunk so they were eager to talk. Here’s what I learned.

Stay away from SW - too easy to get busted, and when you do they typically have a solid case. The only way you don’t get arrested in a sting is if the UC bait doesn’t get confirmation. Confirmation is any verbal agreement or non-verbal gesture such as nodding your head or showing money. The UC will ALWAYS make a clear offer that is completely unambiguous when she makes her approach. If you reply in the affirmative in any way, you’re done. Money sitting on your console or dash can be considered an affirmative response if it’s clearly visible. It may not stick, but you’re still going with them. Many stories about that.

Me: “Even quarters in my cup holder?”

Lady cop: “If I can see them, yes.”

Me: “Holy shit”

Her: “you should see some of the girls out there. They’ll work for change.”


Equally bad option - online outcall to hotel. She said they place ads in online classifieds like LC and BP (she actually mentioned a couple more I hadn’t heard of) and wait for the guys to call them. They will always dictate which hotel it will be at and communicate in a manner that leaves no ambiguity about why the guy is going to the hotel. These communications are recorded of course. Once the guy shows up and walks inside the case is made. Money doesn’t even have to change hands because the solicitation occurred in the previous conversations. Entering the room proves intent. Lesson I took from this is that if you’ve never seen the provider before, the conversations seem unusually explicit, and she tells you where she wants to meet and isn’t budging… walk. You know, Spidey sense.

Strip Clubs are basically safe for the patrons. The primary focus here is on the ladies. The UC (lady cop made sure to point out it’s not always a man) will solicit and if the offer is accepted the lady will be arrested. If they are looking to conduct a raid of an establishment that has a history of repeat offenses, they will typically have several UCs inside all soliciting at the same time. If they get multiple offers accepted, the rest of the team will join in on the fun. Either way, the patrons leave without repercussion. Party’s over folks, you don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here.

Here’s the point where I had to steer the conversation a bit because nobody was talking about what I was most interested in…

Me: “What about those massage parlors that give happy endings? Do y’all go after them?”

Cop: “Not really. What’s the point? We know where they are, but it’s like stepping on a cockroach. If you don’t stomp the living shit out of it, the motherfucker will jump right back up and keep running. Even if you do kill it, it still has more friends than you can count.”

He went on to elaborate that the only reason they ever bust a shop is because:

A) The shop becomes overly conspicuous. In this case they will arrest the workers and managers and declare the business a public nuisance so they can close it permanently. The county will then place restrictions on the property owners so they can no longer rent to SOBs. This typically takes multiple repeat offenses over the course of a few months to a year to get it all done. It’s man-hour intensive so it only really happens when they are trying to clean an area up (Think HWY 6 in its prime).

B) They get complaints from neighbors. In this case they will go in and make an arrest or two and move on. If the complaints continue, they will do the same as above.

They then enlightened my SO and I to the differences between a R&T shop and a FS shop, as well as how many there are in Houston. Trying to play dumb can be exhausting. Sitting there listening to them rattle of all the places we discuss here was almost comical. Even better was hearing how resigned they were about the fact even though they knew about all of them they couldn’t keep up. Best part though was hearing the story of the two Vietnamese women running a hair salon on Chimney Rock (before the move). It was surreal because I had been there the day before. Is nothing sacred, dammit?!

Both he and the woman said that when someone in the department wants to make an example when a complaint hasn’t been filed, the focus is almost always on FS shops because the girls are so used to “get naked and fuck”, as he put it, that the case basically builds itself. He said there is too much ambiguity in the R&T shops to build a case and that it takes too many man hours to get an arrest. They said that they typically only go in to R&T shops to grease the squeaky wheel (shut up the busybodies), but that in almost every case the business isn’t affected and there is almost never an arrest of a customer because of the ambiguity.

Me: “Ambiguity?”

Cop: “A man laying naked on a massage table getting rubbed can have a completely involuntary response and get a hard-on. Unless we walk in and catch the therapist stroking him, we can’t prove anything illegal is going on. The therapist would have to be deaf or just stupid to get busted in the act. We’re not exactly quiet.”

Laughter ensued.

The woman went on to add that the only way they can get mass arrests of the johns is when they conduct a sting. She brought up 7 Star and they discussed that at length. Then she said the most important part.

“Those only happen when someone high enough in the chain of command to spend that kind of money wants to get re-elected or elected to higher office. In 10 years with HPD I’ve only seen it happen once, and that was because the chief was looking to make a name for himself. You have to go to the sheriffs departments where the boss man is elected if you want to do those on a regular basis.”

Figured I’d share this with the rest of you. Knowing how low a priority the AMP scene is to HPD keeps me from being overly concerned with this new law. They know where all the shops are, but they realize it’s pointless to try to stop them.

Take care of yourselves out there. I will be. Just as often as before.

[mynameismudd]

Interesting post. And good to hear. But I wonder since its now a felony if that will change their focus.

[arañanegra]

@Bush_Pilot, thank you for sharing this, very insightful.

[Bowser98]

Originally Posted by Bush_Pilot

Caution - long post ahead. If reading isn’t your thing, move on. You’ve been warned.

TL;DR - It’s all good. The sky is intact.

A couple years ago I was dating a woman who had brothers who were both cops. One afternoon we went to her brother’s place for a crawfish boil and most of the 50 or so people there were cops. HPD, HCSO, FBCSO, etc…

While I’m drinking my beer and getting my fill of bugs I was talking to the people at my table. We were having random discussions about cars and firearms when the guy across from me answered a question from another cop about his assignment the previous evening at Bombshells on 290. The SO’s brother was next to me and asked “waitress or customer?” He then nudged my elbow to fill me in that the guy talking about Bombshells was undercover vice.

Oh really? I have questions.

Brief tangent - cops are just like everyone else. Get them in a group of their peers around food and drinks and they will start telling all their stories. I’m a good listener and I’m pretty good at steering a conversation when I need to.

Where was I? Oh yeah…

I asked the vice cop about what led him to bombshells. He said someone filed a complaint so he went to watch the restaurant to see if he saw anyone “working”. Said he didn’t see anything, but that they would cycle a few UCs through there for a couple of weeks. Seemed bored by it.

I then asked him about SW. When I mentioned it he said “that’s not my gig, I work the clubs. Hold on a sec.” He yelled the name of someone who was walking into the backyard to get her attention and waved her over. She came to the table and they had a bit of small talk before he introduced us. He relayed my question to her and explained that she was also vice and worked the SW and hotel out-call beat. Had my SO not been sitting there I’d have and Encounter report for y’all.

Mmmm, Mmmm, Mmmm…

Because I wanted to sound naive, instead of asking about all the forms of P4P I just let them talk about all the different jobs they do. When the conversation veered of course I’d gently redirect it. They were sharing war stories and getting drunk so they were eager to talk. Here’s what I learned.

Stay away from SW - too easy to get busted, and when you do they typically have a solid case. The only way you don’t get arrested in a sting is if the UC bait doesn’t get confirmation. Confirmation is any verbal agreement or non-verbal gesture such as nodding your head or showing money. The UC will ALWAYS make a clear offer that is completely unambiguous when she makes her approach. If you reply in the affirmative in any way, you’re done. Money sitting on your console or dash can be considered an affirmative response if it’s clearly visible. It may not stick, but you’re still going with them. Many stories about that.

Me: “Even quarters in my cup holder?”

Lady cop: “If I can see them, yes.”

Me: “Holy shit”

Her: “you should see some of the girls out there. They’ll work for change.”


Equally bad option - online outcall to hotel. She said they place ads in online classifieds like LC and BP (she actually mentioned a couple more I hadn’t heard of) and wait for the guys to call them. They will always dictate which hotel it will be at and communicate in a manner that leaves no ambiguity about why the guy is going to the hotel. These communications are recorded of course. Once the guy shows up and walks inside the case is made. Money doesn’t even have to change hands because the solicitation occurred in the previous conversations. Entering the room proves intent. Lesson I took from this is that if you’ve never seen the provider before, the conversations seem unusually explicit, and she tells you where she wants to meet and isn’t budging… walk. You know, Spidey sense.

Strip Clubs are basically safe for the patrons. The primary focus here is on the ladies. The UC (lady cop made sure to point out it’s not always a man) will solicit and if the offer is accepted the lady will be arrested. If they are looking to conduct a raid of an establishment that has a history of repeat offenses, they will typically have several UCs inside all soliciting at the same time. If they get multiple offers accepted, the rest of the team will join in on the fun. Either way, the patrons leave without repercussion. Party’s over folks, you don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here.

Here’s the point where I had to steer the conversation a bit because nobody was talking about what I was most interested in…

Me: “What about those massage parlors that give happy endings? Do y’all go after them?”

Cop: “Not really. What’s the point? We know where they are, but it’s like stepping on a cockroach. If you don’t stomp the living shit out of it, the motherfucker will jump right back up and keep running. Even if you do kill it, it still has more friends than you can count.”

He went on to elaborate that the only reason they ever bust a shop is because:

A) The shop becomes overly conspicuous. In this case they will arrest the workers and managers and declare the business a public nuisance so they can close it permanently. The county will then place restrictions on the property owners so they can no longer rent to SOBs. This typically takes multiple repeat offenses over the course of a few months to a year to get it all done. It’s man-hour intensive so it only really happens when they are trying to clean an area up (Think HWY 6 in its prime).

B) They get complaints from neighbors. In this case they will go in and make an arrest or two and move on. If the complaints continue, they will do the same as above.

They then enlightened my SO and I to the differences between a R&T shop and a FS shop, as well as how many there are in Houston. Trying to play dumb can be exhausting. Sitting there listening to them rattle of all the places we discuss here was almost comical. Even better was hearing how resigned they were about the fact even though they knew about all of them they couldn’t keep up. Best part though was hearing the story of the two Vietnamese women running a hair salon on Chimney Rock (before the move). It was surreal because I had been there the day before. Is nothing sacred, dammit?!

Both he and the woman said that when someone in the department wants to make an example when a complaint hasn’t been filed, the focus is almost always on FS shops because the girls are so used to “get naked and fuck”, as he put it, that the case basically builds itself. He said there is too much ambiguity in the R&T shops to build a case and that it takes too many man hours to get an arrest. They said that they typically only go in to R&T shops to grease the squeaky wheel (shut up the busybodies), but that in almost every case the business isn’t affected and there is almost never an arrest of a customer because of the ambiguity.

Me: “Ambiguity?”

Cop: “A man laying naked on a massage table getting rubbed can have a completely involuntary response and get a hard-on. Unless we walk in and catch the therapist stroking him, we can’t prove anything illegal is going on. The therapist would have to be deaf or just stupid to get busted in the act. We’re not exactly quiet.”

Laughter ensued.

The woman went on to add that the only way they can get mass arrests of the johns is when they conduct a sting. She brought up 7 Star and they discussed that at length. Then she said the most important part.

“Those only happen when someone high enough in the chain of command to spend that kind of money wants to get re-elected or elected to higher office. In 10 years with HPD I’ve only seen it happen once, and that was because the chief was looking to make a name for himself. You have to go to the sheriffs departments where the boss man is elected if you want to do those on a regular basis.”

.

This was two years ago, while drinking, and you can remember it that well? LOL...j/k.

Good info, thanks!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by xfrankx

Where's the ALCU when you need them ��

You haven't heard?

[arañanegra]

I’d remember something like this, it’s not something you get to hear on a regular.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Bowser98

This was two years ago, while drinking, and you can remember it that well? LOL...j/k.

Good info, thanks!

One can get better factual information from a beauty shop than from a police party at which they serve alcoholic beverages.

[Bowser98]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

One can get better factual information from a beauty shop...

Especially if you present yourself as a WK to the ladies, right?