Evolution? Intelligent Design? God did it all in 7 days?

[joe bloe]

[QUOTE=forumguy456987;105237674 6]I apologize that my comment was a little rushed and didn't completely flesh out the meat & potatoes of what I wanted to say. I actually agree with your statement. I'm not siding with any "scientific fact" in particular here. Merely that simply basing things so complex and its "creation", to a book designed to control behavior is insane. And the ignorance of the people that say "well, I can't understand it, so GOD must have put it here...it's too complicated for ANY other explanation to be true."[/QUOTE]

Aristotle is widely considered to be the father of science because he was the first to say that the human mind is sufficient to understand the world. Prior to Aristotle, just about everything was explained with superstition.

I think even Aristotle would admit at some point the human mind becomes inadequate. It's one thing to understand why water boils, and quite another to understand how the universe sprang into being out of nothing.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

[

Aristotle is widely considered to be the father of science because he was the first to say that the human mind is sufficient to understand the world. Prior to Aristotle, just about everything was explained with superstition.

I think even Aristotle would admit at some point the human mind becomes inadequate. It's one thing to understand why water boils, and quite another to understand how the universe sprang into being out of nothing.

joe just because you can't understand it does not mean all of us are that dumb!

Sounds like you are saying that dumb folks look to God for things they can't understand and the rest of us turn to science to figure it out for you dipshits!

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You just like ass...

Oh yeah, science trumps religious dogma every day. Evidence versus belief.

I know, being a dipshit is your constitutional right. And we have no obligation to educate your young ... That's the Church's job. YOW!

I plan to have my church paid quite handsomely for it as well!

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Hey, Assup! Did I take a side in the debate? Did I say Intelligent Design defeats evolution? Did I make ANY religious statement at all? That's right, no I did not. So you continue to lie about me.

Genesis is a myth. I am not a religionist. But you are . . .

Hell, everyone knows what goes here anyway.

Damn unbeliever You will rot, be flayed, quartered and burnt anew each day in my special eleventy seventh ring of hell (I've got to come up with a new more ominous name for mine so it doesn't seem quite so derivative)!

Originally Posted by WTF

joe just because you can't understand it does not mean all of us are that dumb!

Sounds like you are saying that dumb folks look to God for things they can't understand and the rest of us turn to science to figure it out for you dipshits!

Nuh, uh to all of you. My imaginary invisible buddy is stronger and righter than all your imaginary invisible buddies (unless you sit in my pews and give me money and agree with me) and can beat them all up so I know everything here was created when this universe and all that is in it in his seventh daze. "So God so loved the world that when he saw it was not good he put it in his pipe and smoked it and it *forbidden topic removed by poster* him. After the seventh daze he saw it was finished and it was all good so he rested and had some munchies and a brew because creationism is hard and thirsty work".

Of course nothing any of you could say, especially if facts and science are involved, will sway my certain belief in this truth!

BTW, is satirical *forbidden topic* use by deities even being mentioned also actually forbidden too? How about fiction? I realize this isn't a book club, but we basically couldn't have a discussion about "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" if that is the case. Just sayin'

[forumguy456987]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Aristotle is widely considered to be the father of science because he was the first to say that the human mind is sufficient to understand the world. Prior to Aristotle, just about everything was explained with superstition.

I think even Aristotle would admit at some point the human mind becomes inadequate. It's one thing to understand why water boils, and quite another to understand how the universe sprang into being out of nothing.

Aristotle also lived 2300 years ago. Science evolves as we learn, that's the point. Scientists after him tested his theories, as the next generation of scientists will test the theories of today. And we will continue to learn.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by forumguy456987

Aristotle also lived 2300 years ago. Science evolves as we learn, that's the point. Scientists after him tested his theories, as the next generation of scientists will test the theories of today. And we will continue to learn.

So then is science Gnosticism?

Science should look for truth, not push unproven agendas
and assumptions as facts. Which they do as much or more
than any religion.

Science has become the newest religion because it pushes an
agenda that claims to answer the greater questions of where
we all came from and what it's all about.

Which has the same moral implications as any religion,
and requires the same amount of faith.

If anyone is claiming otherwise they are in denial.


Now, all you sinners bow down at the alter of Hawking and Dawkins
and repent.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by bojulay

So then is science Gnosticism?

Science should look for truth, not push unproven agendas and assumptions as facts. Science does look for truth. When science determines what the atomic weight of oxygen is, no one is disturbed. When science calculates how far away a galaxy is, no one is disturbed. When science determines that species evolve, creationists get disturbed. They are the one pushing an agenda.

Science has become the newest religion because it pushes an agenda that claims to answer the greater questions of where we all came from and what it's all about.
Science isn't a religion because it does not rely on belief. It relies on observations and hypothesis that lead to theories on how things work. Science doesn't look to answer deeper questions about the meaning of existence, because you can't design experiments to test for the answers to those questions. Agenda are pushed by people who are disturbed by the findings of science.

Which has the same moral implications as any religion, and requires the same amount of faith.
No, science does NOT require faith. In fact, it does the opposite. It tries to completely explain the world in terms of understandable physical processes controlled by the laws of physics - without relying on faith for ANY step in the process.

If anyone is claiming otherwise they are in denial.
No, the religious extremists who try to deny the discoveries of science are the ones in denial. The more we learn, the more unreliable religion looks.

Now, all you sinners bow down at the alter of Hawking and Dawkins and repent.
Fortunately, science doesn't require any one to bow down.

Thump your Bible all you like. You can't make scientific truth go away.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

Thump your Bible all you like. You can't make scientific truth go away.

There is more out right lying, agendas, hidden agendas, assumptions
presented as facts, and outright dishonesty in the scientific evolutionist
community as you will find anywhere.

Anyone can do a little research and see that is true.

Your claim seems to be just because someone puts the word science
in front of something, that gives whatever claim they make some
kind of unquestionable truth.

If that's not worshiping at an alter I don't know what is.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

joe just because you can't understand it does not mean all of us are that dumb!

Sounds like you are saying that dumb folks look to God for things they can't understand and the rest of us turn to science to figure it out for you dipshits!

I guess I must be dumb. How did the universe spring into being out nothingness. Explain it to me, oh wise one.

Most of the world thinks there was a creator.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by bojulay

There is more out right lying, agendas, hidden agendas, assumptions
presented as facts, and outright dishonesty in the scientific evolutionist
community as you will find anywhere.

Anyone can do a little research and see that is true.

Your claim seems to be just because someone puts the word science
in front of something, that gives whatever claim they make some
kind of unquestionable truth.

If that's not worshiping at an alter I don't know what is.

A lot of the so called proof for evolution is bogus, just like the so called proof for global warming. The global warming lies may be accepted as gospel eventually, because of the big lie theory; it's all about repetition.

The left used the theory of evolution to discourage belief in God. Now the left is using the global warming hoax to destroy capitalism.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by forumguy456987

Aristotle also lived 2300 years ago. Science evolves as we learn, that's the point. Scientists after him tested his theories, as the next generation of scientists will test the theories of today. And we will continue to learn.

Probably most of Aristotle's scientific theories have been disproven. His great accomplishment was to say that the task of understanding how the world works was within human ability. He began the process of not relying on superstition as a crutch every time you couldn't figure something out.

My contention is that science only goes so far. We have the capacity to understand how the world works but not necessarily how it was created, how something came from nothing. The big bang theory doesn't answer the fundamental question.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

A lot of the so called proof for evolution is bogus, just like the so called proof for global warming. The global warming lies may be accepted as gospel eventually, because of the big lie theory; it's all about repetition.

The left used the theory of evolution to discourage belief in God. Now the left is using the global warming hoax to destroy capitalism.

Yep, a new alter for them to worship at, global warming.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

A lot of the so called proof for evolution is bogus, just like the so called proof for global warming. The global warming lies may be accepted as gospel eventually, because of the big lie theory; it's all about repetition.

The left used the theory of evolution to discourage belief in God. Now the left is using the global warming hoax to destroy capitalism.

Yep, a new alter for them to worship at, global warming.

More to the idea that man causes it and can control it.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I guess I must be dumb. How did the universe spring into being out nothingness. Explain it to me, oh wise one.

Most of the world thinks there was a creator.

Most of the world has for brains!


Look, if you think God created all and knows all then why did he let those there terrorist fly into the WTC?

I have no idea how it came to be....that does not mean I just make up some shit like this God in Heaven crap. I just say , "Fuck if I know!" I do not know if the eveloution theory is correct but I sure as shit don't think there is some asshole pulling us around on puppet strings!


http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1992/art2aug92.html
New Ideas
Humanists do not claim to have any final answers. We look to the open book of nature, not to the closed book of "revelation", for our understanding of the world and what is important in it. Science and ethics are continuing processes of discovery and surprise, so one must always be willing to consider new ideas. What a cruel SOB that would be! He has the abality to save the earth, bring it peace and joy and all we get is this shit!

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

A lot of the so called proof for evolution is bogus, just like the so called proof for global warming. The global warming lies may be accepted as gospel eventually, because of the big lie theory; it's all about repetition.

The left used the theory of evolution to discourage belief in God. Now the left is using the global warming hoax to destroy capitalism.

Tell it to 'em, brother Joe!

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by bojulay

There is more out right lying, agendas, hidden agendas, assumptions
presented as facts, and outright dishonesty in the scientific evolutionist
community as you will find anywhere.

Anyone can do a little research and see that is true.

Your claim seems to be just because someone puts the word science
in front of something, that gives whatever claim they make some
kind of unquestionable truth.

If that's not worshiping at an alter I don't know what is.

Wrong. Again.

I agree that not everything that lables itself as science is indeed science, but the real scientific work is inherently honest. It ststes what was seen, measured, etc. It hypothisizes how the data fits together, and encourages others to test the hypothesis to either strengthen it, refute it, or modify it.

It is the litteralist among they creationists who toss away facts with "That's not what MY bible says", and who put forth hypotheses that have little if any data to support them. It is the creationists who typically confuse WHY with HOW (though I do agree Hawkins walks close to that line at times also).

Hidden agendas? Having been a peripheral participant in the evolution/creation scientific debate for 33 years now the hidden agenda is almost always (not even close, really) the creationists who play that game. Most proponents of evolution--those who have devoted their life to the study, find it makes them more religious, not less. More a believer in a god who used evolution as his tool. But most of them--unlike the creationists--understand WHY and HOW are questions in two very different domains.

Originally Posted by joe bloe

The left used the theory of evolution to discourage belief in God.

Complete crap! But I suspect you know that.