The glory days of the HDH are over.

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

What you describe is dinner with someone who is a prostitute and by not supporting her, you treat her as such by failing to support her in on a larger scale.

however I support her before or after (or both!) dinner. So she is not exactly leaving empty handed. And she certainly has the option of saying "thanks babe, but I have another meeting/appointment, TTYL." But she has said great! Where are we going? I consider it the same as saying to a friend, wanna grab a bite? It does require a warm relationship for both parties.

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

Always, but particularly in light of these conversations I thank God for my friend, lover, patron. And yes, the black amex that comes with it. But also the mutual respect and kindness that is shared between us.

Black AmEx? I am SO not worthy.

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

See below for the correct usage of the term Demimonde

It is semantics. I like to use Demimonde for purposes here as it is more gentile way of describing our interaction between the boys & girls (Diamonds and Tuxedos [I almost typed Tiaras and it would be Becky & Ed's fault]). I hate to disrespect what happens by calling it hookers and johns or whatever term might be used. So by definition yes, I am wrong. Please accept that I like to elevate our actions with each other to term that an educated populace could use.

BTW, I am not offended by your correction (nor should you care if I am ) just intelligent discussions.

[charlestudor2005]

Like all games, this whole world is a game.

As a hobbyist, it is my job to get the best possible experience for the smallest possible rate.

As an escort, it is the lady's job to get the best (or, depending upon the attitude, shortest) experience for the highest possible rate.

I view these "date" descriptions as merely a device to raise the rate. The terms "cocktail," "dinner," "desert," and others that describe the date, IMO, are used as devices to raise the rate. The device generally divides time into "public" and "private." Now, for those who desire the illusion of a "date," this may be attractive. However, I have no such illusion. This is not a date. This is business. And the most the lady can expect (except for the rare case like Sydney), is repeat visits (which she may NOT want anyway, depending on the hobbyist).

The most the hobbyist can expect is that the rate remain static on repeat session. I had one lady tell me that repeat visits would remain static, and when I tried to re-schedule, the price went up by about 1/3. I never booked her a second time. And although most ladies say this, I don't know how accurate it is.

So, it's all a game. For the escort, it's a living, and it's her job to make as much as possible. For the hobbyist, it's a hobby. But it can be a really expensive hobby, or a not so expensive one.

[Sydneyb]

Originally Posted by SR Only

Please accept that I like to elevate our actions with each other to term that an educated populace could use.

My point was - and is - that I find that the world is full of people who would like to elevate their behavior with words and not action....I maintain that if you want to be part of something, you have to pay the entry fee.

That applies to the women in question as well. When you have one or two suitors and are in committed relationships, you typically do so at the expense of other life choices - other love relationships.

The Gentleman who wish to have off the clock access to those women, do so at a different kind of expense - one that supports her life. Not an hour for 3.

I think most of the conversations from the men here that seem to be so proud of getting that 3 to 1 ratio are really about fear. It seems disproportionate, this need to be desired without dollars attached to a system that is dependent on the dollars being attached.

As to my reaction; probably disproportionate as well. I came on as an hourly girl in the Houston market in the midst of several busts of studios. Those studio rates were $240, it was then the "gentleman" of Houston decided to say that the girls no longer had to drop a percentage, so they would say the going market rate was $180. An arbitrary number that ignored the womans increased risk and costs - getting to and from appointments, rather than being static at a studio that also did the screening. The Houston men (of course not all of them) didn't just say it, they spoke of it like it was a foregone conclusion (much as this "HDH is Dead" thread). I also got a lot of backlash for being overweight (which I was at the time) and 34 and choosing to charge $300. My response was always "I'm CLEARLY not starvin' boys". Then I lost the weight, got some balls and charged a lot more. Thank God for Cojones! (seriously, thank god for mine and yours ). My point is, just because you say it, some women will believe it; which is, I'm sure the point. So I am trying to be equally as vocal in saying that just because you say it, doesn't make it true for all.

[Sydneyb]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Like all games, this whole world is a game.

As a hobbyist, it is my job to get the best possible experience for the smallest possible rate.

As an escort, it is the lady's job to get the best (or, depending upon the attitude, shortest) experience for the highest possible rate.

I view these "date" descriptions as merely a device to raise the rate. .

And this is why you have consistently terrible experiences in the industry. You view this as a zero sum game and in that scenerio, someone must win and someone must lose. And to you, paying is losing. In this industry, paying is the entry fee, everything else is a roll in the hay. In AND out of the bedroom.

Seduction over wine and conversation is fun! Dinner with its tastes and textures and flirtation is fun! A fuck is fun!

Let me give you an example; I used to have a client that I saw quarterly for (paid) dinner dates. At one point I had a serious surgery that eliminated full service for a while. He came to town and paid me my 3 hr dinner date, we went to dinner and I paid a (hot) girl to come pinch hit for me for one hour of BCD. He didn't want to have her come to dinner and I didn't want to stay for the BCD. We both remember that as an amazing experience; he got the dinner and fun and seduction of our experience and a very hot girl. I was cared for (by a client, not a lover or exclusive) in a way that told me I was valued for more than what I offer between the sheets. To this day we are friends. He was - and is - confident enough to know that because I needed the money at that time in my life that I didn't "use" him, I offered something that met everyones needs and noone lost in that scenerio.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

The Gentleman who wish to have off the clock access to those women, do so at a different kind of expense - one that supports her life. Not an hour for 3.

Well said. The attraction of a long term arrangement - even if not exclusive - is that the lady can really dedicate significant amounts of time to me. Sure, there is juggling that happens with the one or two other gents that may have a similar arrangements with her. But there is a connection into each other's lives on a day-to-day basis that does not exist in the 1 or 3 or 12 hour scenario. It is not a zero sum game but a real win-win for both people. It is not for everyone but it can be a very nice way to do things.

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

I also got a lot of backlash for being overweight (which I was at the time) and 34 and choosing to charge $300. My response was always "I'm CLEARLY not starvin' boys."

At least you have a good sense of humor and wit. Hear, hear!

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

Seduction over wine and conversation is fun! Dinner with its tastes and textures and flirtation is fun! A fuck is fun!

Agreed!!!

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

Let me give you an example; I used to have a client that I saw quarterly for (paid) dinner dates. At one point I had a serious surgery that eliminated full service for a while. He came to town and paid me my 3 hr dinner date, we went to dinner and I paid a (hot) girl to come pinch hit for me for one hour of BCD. He didn't want to have her come to dinner and I didn't want to stay for the BCD. We both remember that as an amazing experience; he got the dinner and fun and seduction of our experience and a very hot girl. I was cared for (by a client, not a lover or exclusive) in a way that told me I was valued for more than what I offer between the sheets. To this day we are friends. He was - and is - confident enough to know that because I needed the money at that time in my life that I didn't "use" him, I offered something that met everyones needs and noone lost in that scenerio.

This proves you understood the man/client and truly understand customer service (as base as that sounds). My hat's off to you for coordinating that. Very impressive. And as you noted, he is a "customer for life."

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

And this is why you have consistently terrible experiences in the industry. You view this as a zero sum game and in that scenerio, someone must win and someone must lose. And to you, paying is losing. In this industry, paying is the entry fee, everything else is a roll in the hay. In AND out of the bedroom.

Seduction over wine and conversation is fun! Dinner with its tastes and textures and flirtation is fun! A fuck is fun!

Let me give you an example; I used to have a client that I saw quarterly for (paid) dinner dates. At one point I had a serious surgery that eliminated full service for a while. He came to town and paid me my 3 hr dinner date, we went to dinner and I paid a (hot) girl to come pinch hit for me for one hour of BCD. He didn't want to have her come to dinner and I didn't want to stay for the BCD. We both remember that as an amazing experience; he got the dinner and fun and seduction of our experience and a very hot girl. I was cared for (by a client, not a lover or exclusive) in a way that told me I was valued for more than what I offer between the sheets. To this day we are friends. He was - and is - confident enough to know that because I needed the money at that time in my life that I didn't "use" him, I offered something that met everyones needs and noone lost in that scenerio.

I think your story lines up with what I imagine might happen in a regular client situation (although yours may be one of the most dramatic).

I don't hobby at home, just on the road. And I am never in the same location twice. So I don't have the benefit of trying to develop a regular.

Let me ask you this Sydney: if you were still escorting, and if I tried to set up a date with you, and if you knew for a fact that it was going to probably be a one-time thing, would you put as much into that date with me as you would with one of your regulars?

I'd ask the same question of all the ladies here who have regulars. My guess is that with no chance of repeat business, you don't have as much invested in the date as you do with others.

[guest060911]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

...if you were still escorting, and if I tried to set up a date with you, and if you knew for a fact that it was going to probably be a one-time thing, would you put as much into that date with me as you would with one of your regulars?...I'd ask the same question of all the ladies here who have regulars. My guess is that with no chance of repeat business, you don't have as much invested in the date as you do with others.

Given reputation and word-of-month are all we have, it's in a companion's best interest to treat all gentlemen friends well despite whether or not they will return as regulars. Also it boils down to ethics and integrity, which many of us have. I will not take a gentleman's money unless I plan to offer him an amazing time. Besides, I've converted a few "one-time only" clients into regular friends, which is always fun!

Xo.

[Sydneyb]

There's so much to say. DG - I'm not sure where the hug emoticon is, but let me send one your way transcendally (I think I made that word up ;-). I don't know you outside of internet boards, but I really want to send a big ole hug your way. I hope you're happy in your life right now. Really.

SR, thank you for being so elegant in your response-- I was a little (puh; a little???) aggresive and you were such a gentleman in your response....makes me me want to be really little and look up at you....isn't that a weird way to put it??? But its what feels right in my response.

Gina - such a special woman --- you just keep up with the ladylike - and thorough - responses (while maintaining your position; how cool and sexy is that????) Very. In my (small) world.

And Charles: my answer to your question is dependent on where I've been in my life at any given moment; I have been a provider and recognized that every single person who came through my door deserved my best (as Gina suggests and was me at my best in heart and work ethic) and I have been a provider who was desperately in love with someone and I felt torn and wanted so much to be outside the demimonde and didn't have it my heart or body to give to anyone, yet I was still working based on need. So your answer is: I've been great and I've sucked wind. It was less about you and more about me. When a woman best at being a provider, its the opposite - its about you. I'm not very good at roles. So I've followed my heart and sometimes that was not in line with your financial commitment, and sometimes its exceeded your investment.

It all is dependent on where I was in my own life and where my heart was leading me that created what I was able to give at any given time in my career. I think you'll find that with women everywhere....we are, fragile and loving and happy and sometimes tragically sad. It depends. While that seems so unfair in context of your looking to have your pleasure met, its true if you remember that these women are just that. Women. While we should at our best be the antithesis of what you have available to you at home, we're just people. Flawed and raw and sexy and sometimes just doing what we need to do to make it.

I hope you can find the ability to figure our where the ladies are as you connect to them prior to "the deed". I truly hope you find satifaction in this experience, since you choose to be here. We all should find satisfaction where we can. And certainly if you're paying for it.

Okay; wine (Cameron Hughes has some great ones under $20, btw; a nod to a very old thread by that wonderful chef and ex courtesan who used to post here) and a real appretiation for SRs kind response has me feeling a little girly and loving and honest right now. That's as good as I had ever been capable of. Honest and a desire to be loving to the human that walked through my door.

[Camille]

I'm really struggling to understand (and always have) why some people find it REALLY hard to grasp that different strokes for different folks do exist..and work effectively.I want different things at different times...on both sides of the veil. Whether you are a man or a woman, if it's just sex you are looking for, the aesthetics of your partner will play a large part in the choice you make...whether you are paying or not. You need to fancy your partner. If you are looking for someone see regularly, aesthetics are only a part of a combination of things that come into play. It's not that hard to figure out what a woman is looking for (or not looking for) in the demi world when you look at her minimum time or packages. For example, the woman that charges $2500/4hrs is looking for a "dating" experience with as few men as possible. The rate does not mean she is "better" at anything..other than marketing well for what she wants.

[pjorourke]

+1

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Let me ask you this Sydney: if you were still escorting, and if I tried to set up a date with you, and if you knew for a fact that it was going to probably be a one-time thing, would you put as much into that date with me as you would with one of your regulars?

I think a lot of these gals would "put as much into that date" as they would into one of their regulars. But you might never know it. Mainly that is because you are listening to folks who are regulars, or who have had regular ATF.

Once one becomes a regular, the provider knows a lot more about the regular. What he likes...what he doesn't like...is he into sports...does he like wine...does he like 'em looking sexy and hot or prim and proper...does he like to play games...etc.

So, until you pick one, or two or three...you'll probably never know what the perks of the regular are. It's not her fault...it's not really even your fault. It's just the way it is.

First dances are really about the dance. Second and third and forth dances become about a lot more.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

And Charles: my answer to your question is dependent on where I've been in my life at any given moment; I have been a provider and recognized that every single person who came through my door deserved my best (as Gina suggests and was me at my best in heart and work ethic) and I have been a provider who was desperately in love with someone and I felt torn and wanted so much to be outside the demimonde and didn't have it my heart or body to give to anyone, yet I was still working based on need. So your answer is: I've been great and I've sucked wind. It was less about you and more about me. When a woman best at being a provider, its the opposite - its about you. I'm not very good at roles. So I've followed my heart and sometimes that was not in line with your financial commitment, and sometimes its exceeded your investment.

It all is dependent on where I was in my own life and where my heart was leading me that created what I was able to give at any given time in my career. I think you'll find that with women everywhere....we are, fragile and loving and happy and sometimes tragically sad. It depends. While that seems so unfair in context of your looking to have your pleasure met, its true if you remember that these women are just that. Women. While we should at our best be the antithesis of what you have available to you at home, we're just people. Flawed and raw and sexy and sometimes just doing what we need to do to make it.

I hope you can find the ability to figure our where the ladies are as you connect to them prior to "the deed". I truly hope you find satifaction in this experience, since you choose to be here. We all should find satisfaction where we can. And certainly if you're paying for it.

Syd, I know we have jousted back and forth a time or two, and to tell you the truth, I really didn't expect such a heartfelt answer.

But, as usual, you surprise me. I appreciate the truthfulness, honesty and emotion in your response.

And in response, I think it is becoming obvious to me that for a number of reasons specific to my situation, I won't be developing any regulars even though I might like to.

I am seeing a lady tonight who I think might rock my world. Since she is touring, I'll probably never see her again. Report to follow, maybe.

[Guest083011]

Do we get details or reviews?

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

And in response, I think it is becoming obvious to me that for a number of reasons specific to my situation, I won't be developing any regulars even though I might like to.

I am seeing a lady tonight who I think might rock my world. Since she is touring, I'll probably never see her again. Report to follow, maybe.

You have a SO so you have time/discretion issues -- probably have or more on here are in the same boat.

You (may) have budget issues. Not unique here. A "regular" need not mean HDH or multihour.

You've said in the past you only date on the road. I don't know, but if you are always on the road surely you have a couple of cities that you visit a couple of times a year. Cultivate regulars in your city. Paticipate in those local boards, etc.

It might actually change your outlook on some of your trips. Instead of "St. Louis again, well at least I'll get laid" it can move to, "St. Louis in two weeks and I get to see Holly again"

But you say you would like regulars but you go and see a touring girl. That is just inconsistent with your goal.

It is like the guy that decides he's going change his diet. Cholesterol is off the charts but still eats at Burger King for lunch 3 times a week,