Why is Trump President Anyway?????

[pussycat]

Originally Posted by actionjackson647

in the first week agent orange did the following

signed an order discriminating against muslims (on holocaust rememberance day ironically)

repeatedly pressed the notin that there where millions of illegal votes despite no evidence of it, calling into question the entire american idea of democracy. (and if there were that many illegal votes than a case could be made that he is not a legitimate president)

kept insisting that mexico will pay for his wall despite no idea how they will do so. (his idea of a 20% tax would only ensure that americans will pay for it)

kept lying about the size of teh crowds at his swearing in(his massive ego wont allow him to admit he wasnt #1 at something)

and for those that are crediting him with the dow hitting 20k i guess that means Obama gets the credit for the rise from 6500 to 18k which is what it was the day before election day.

In his first week agent orange has done nothing but give evidence that he may be the biggest danger to the american way of life in history

There is nothing un-American about discrimination in immigration policy. Immigration guidelines and rules have traditionally been based on national origin and religious factors.

You may not like the idea of it but it's always been that way.

Personally I think all muslims should be banned from the United States because I'm a liberal and a feminist and I deplore the way women are treated according to the Koran and the Haddith.

I worked for years in muslim countries and I know first hand how opposite from progressive values Islam is.

There core beliefs are the opposite of everything America stands for.

In addition to the Koran's treatment of women as animals and property, it also advocates for slavery, warfare, amputation of limbs, and every other kind of barbaric act.

I know first hand that the ISIS movement is actually based on the real Islam. They are the ones who are true to the Islamic faith, and not the kinder, gentler ones you see in the media who pretend that Islam is like other faiths.

It's not like other faiths.

[DSK]

Looks like winning to me when all the liberals are melting down.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Elections have consequences, even if you don't get the majority of the votes!!!!

Also, if you think the conservative people in small states are going to give up their electoral votes or their two Senators, you are one crazy [prohibited word].

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Milly23

...And how is this happening, well a Republican Supreme Court decided in Shelby v. Holder to gut the part of the VRA that made states with a history of racist practices to get approval before enacting voting laws.

C'mon millsy... keep going. Tell the whole story. And why did the Supreme Court decide to end its unprecedented judicial oversight of those states' voting rules? Because in many of them, blacks are now registered and turn out to vote in higher percentages than whites! So much for "voter suppression".

You didn't want to mention that part, did you?

[FirePhoenix]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/
I have been signing a few petitions today.

[Milly23]

Originally Posted by lustylad

C'mon millsy... keep going. Tell the whole story. And why did the Supreme Court decide to end its unprecedented judicial oversight of those states' voting rules? Because in many of them, blacks are now registered and turn out to vote in higher percentages than whites! So much for "voter suppression".

You didn't want to mention that part, did you?

Wait, I thought in her argument the votes of black males were down? Were they up? I must be confused. The Court ended that and what happened? You go on. States like Wisonsin, Texas Florida, North Carolina all enacted voting laws that disproportionately effected minorities. Like closing down 100s of voting locations making longer lines. Those are facts. The federal court said that the laws enacted in NC were made to attack the African American vote. If you can't accept those facts, well that's your issues. The Court isn't all knowing or always right. They have had to correct their decisions. I can guarantee you that the amount of votes being suppressed is larger than the amount of voter fraud going on. So if 3-5 million people committed voter fraud, man the amount of votes suppressed must be 10 million or so. As for the black vote being up. You said registered. Yeah they can be registered but just because they are registered, that doesn't mean they are being allowed to vote. You act so enlighten but yet you put voter suppress in quotation like it's a myth. if you are thinking that I think talk to you about anything is pointless, since facts and data would mean nothing to you.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Milly23

Wait, I thought in her argument the votes of black males were down? Were they up? I must be confused...

Yes, you are confused. Shelby v. Holder was written in 2013 and cited turnout figures for 2012. Blacks were sufficiently motivated to vote for Obama that they did WHATEVER IT TOOK to turn out (to register AND to vote) in proportionately greater numbers than whites in many states. Hillary was a very different story in 2016. Get it now?

[Milly23]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Yes, you are confused. Shelby v. Holder was written in 2013 and cited turnout figures for 2012. Blacks were sufficiently motivated to vote for Obama that they did WHATEVER IT TOOK to turn out (to register AND to vote) in proportionately greater numbers than whites in many states. Hillary was a very different story in 2016. Get it now?

Man you are so biased it's crazy. And since I'm sure you aren't black, you too are speaking from opinion. Also, I mentioned the case, I would know when it was decided. And since you want to try to prove you know it all again. The case wasn't written. The opinion was given, the case was decided but it wasn't written. I and most of my family/friends weren't motivated to do whatever it took because it was Obama. We had pride in voting for a person who looked like us. It mobilized a lot of people but Obama mobilized more than just African Americans. You saying that we did whatever to vote for Obama makes it seem that all these years, blacks didn't want to vote. It wasn't until Obama that they came out. We want to vote, and we came out to vote for Hillary. Like I pointed out to the other lady, Hillary got a good amount of the African American vote. But as it was shown, many states started enacting laws soon after 2012 that limited the ability for minorities to vote. That's a fact, if you can't accept it, oh well. And those laws made it harder for minorities to exercise their right to vote. And the fact that you can't except that lets me know that we can't have a true back and forth conversation because you aren't willing to see the facts of how voter suppression is occurring.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Milly23

Man you are so biased it's crazy. And since I'm sure you aren't black, you too are speaking from opinion.

First, what makes me biased? The fact that I don't agree with you? Don't call me biased if you can't explain what I said that you consider biased, and why. Second, you have no idea if I'm African American or not. Third, are you saying blacks always speak from facts or experience, and non-blacks from opinion? That makes no sense. You should think before you post.


Also, I mentioned the case, I would know when it was decided.

If you know the case, then why didn't you mention the facts and logic behind it?


And since you want to try to prove you know it all again. The case wasn't written. The opinion was given, the case was decided but it wasn't written.

I'm far from a know-it-all. I was raised under the mantra “the aim of all education is to teach you how little you know.” And what do you mean by "the case wasn't written”? It's on the SCOTUS website. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...12-96_6k47.pdf


I and most of my family/friends weren't motivated to do whatever it took because it was Obama. We had pride in voting for a person who looked like us. It mobilized a lot of people but Obama mobilized more than just African Americans. You saying that we did whatever to vote for Obama makes it seem that all these years, blacks didn't want to vote. It wasn't until Obama that they came out.

Wow, you go back and forth contradicting yourself. Of course Obama mobilized more than blacks. I never said he didn't. Millions of whites and other minorities voted for him. But he particularly motivated more African Americans to go to the polls, so much so that the overall black turnout percentage was higher than it was for whites. Hillary didn't inspire anything like that. I never implied that blacks didn't want to vote “all these years” prior to Obama. Look, I want to go to church every Sunday, but I am more motivated to attend at Christmas and Easter, right? You know what I am saying, but for some reason you are afraid to agree with me, even when the point is obvious.


We want to vote, and we came out to vote for Hillary. Like I pointed out to the other lady, Hillary got a good amount of the African American vote.

Hillary received 88% of the black vote. Here's a link indicating that overall turnout by African Americans fell by 11% - from 16.9 million to 15.0 million - between 2012 to 2016.

http://www.phillytrib.com/news/black...d7639dc97.html


But as it was shown, many states started enacting laws soon after 2012 that limited the ability for minorities to vote. That's a fact, if you can't accept it, oh well. And those laws made it harder for minorities to exercise their right to vote. And the fact that you can't except (sic) that lets me know that we can't have a true back and forth conversation because you aren't willing to see the facts of how voter suppression is occurring.

Yes, there have been changes in state voting laws since 2012. I'm not familiar with them all, so I won't generalize. But riddle me this – why should requiring a photo ID suppress the rights of one group versus another? The same rules apply to all. Does requiring you to obtain a passport before you can go overseas suppress your right to travel?

[Milly23]

Originally Posted by lustylad

There have been many changes in state voting laws since 2012. I'm not familiar with them all so I won't generalize. But riddle me this – why should requiring a photo ID suppress the rights of one group versus another? The same rules apply to all. Does requiring you to obtain a passport before you can travel overseas suppress your right to travel?

You don't have to agree with me. You are biased because you are ignoring facts about voter suppression putting it in quotations like it's not a fact. And again you are inferring things. I didn't say your opinion was not from facts because you aren't black (which I know you aren't, lie about it if you want but you're not), it's opinion because you don't know why African Americans voted. You just threw out there that they did whatever to vote because of Obama. That's not a fact. You don't know that, I don't know that. I do know why my family, friends and I voted.

Stating the facts don't mean anything. You can look up the facts on Wikipedia or OYEZ. The reason I mentioned the case is because it's decision got rid of preclearance which lead to more voter laws that suppressed the vote. But you tried to ignore that fact by talking about unprecedented blah blah blah. You are ignoring the issues that occurred. The same states that were on the lists needing preclearance, as soon as the decision came down, they enacted laws that were aimed at minorities.

Ahh see look at you crawfishing. The majority opinion, dissents, concurrences are written yes. But you said Shelby v Holder was written. A court case isn't written. I mean if we want to go down the road you go down.

You tell me I won't admit a point that's obvious. Yet you refuse to connect the easy points of a) Federal courts in states have ruled that voter laws have attacked minorities rights to vote. b) Many of these laws were passed after 2012. So maybe, just maybe, that 11% that you mentioned was due to the effect of those laws.

First the laws aren't just about photo ID's. Like I mentioned, in states like NC, they closed down hundreds of voting stations in neighbors that were somehow in the communities of African American voters. So does having to wait in longer lines, on a weekday when you may not get the day off a way to suppress the vote? As for those photo ID's. It's a lot easier to compare it to getting a passport when you don't have to deal with the troubles of it.

I will just leave this here, maybe you will then see how it can be hard for a certain bloc of people to get photo ID's and how that's suppression:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.822269ded566

If you can't except that, then I think we should leave it there because you are truly just going to shoot down the facts on how the voting laws have disproportionally effected minorities.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Milly23

You don't have to agree with me. You are biased because you are ignoring facts about voter suppression putting it in quotations like it's not a fact.

Was voter suppression a problem in the 2012 election, when blacks went to the polls in greater percentages than whites and others did?


And again you are inferring things. I didn't say your opinion was not from facts because you aren't black (which I know you aren't, lie about it if you want but you're not), it's opinion because you don't know why African Americans voted. You just threw out there that they did whatever to vote because of Obama. That's not a fact. You don't know that, I don't know that. I do know why my family, friends and I voted.

And again you are being argumentative. Look, most people vote the way they do for a mix of reasons, some more important than others. That's why there are so many polls – to find out what makes voters tick. Surely you don't deny that pride in electing an African American was a powerful reason many blacks voted for Obama? That's not opinion, it's a conclusion that is easily supported by exit polls and other empirical data. In 1960, Catholics turned out to vote in record-high percentages in part because JFK was on the ballot. Nobody denies that or feels offended when it is pointed out.


Stating the facts don't mean anything. You can look up the facts on Wikipedia or OYEZ. The reason I mentioned the case is because it's decision got rid of preclearance which lead to more voter laws that suppressed the vote. But you tried to ignore that fact by talking about unprecedented blah blah blah. You are ignoring the issues that occurred. The same states that were on the lists needing preclearance, as soon as the decision came down, they enacted laws that were aimed at minorities.

I already said I won't generalize. But since you like WaPo, here's another link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...unty-v-holder/

The article mentions two things you don't: 1) Many states (15) passed laws to IMPROVE access to vote, and 2) More restrictive voting laws are not automatically “aimed at minorities” - they are usually intended to combat fraud and/or save money. Do you have any idea how expensive it is for states to keep polls open for weeks of early voting?


Ahh see look at you crawfishing. The majority opinion, dissents, concurrences are written yes. But you said Shelby v Holder was written. A court case isn't written. I mean if we want to go down the road you go down.

I have no idea what you're talking about. All court cases are written. I just provided you with a link to the written text.


You tell me I won't admit a point that's obvious. Yet you refuse to connect the easy points of a) Federal courts in states have ruled that voter laws have attacked minorities rights to vote. b) Many of these laws were passed after 2012. So maybe, just maybe, that 11% that you mentioned was due to the effect of those laws.

That's extremely far-fetched. In some states, the new laws were struck down by the courts. In others, voting was made easier, not harder. You can't possibly isolate the NET impact of all voting law changes on 2016 national turnout, especially given all the other factors at play.


First the laws aren't just about photo ID's. Like I mentioned, in states like NC, they closed down hundreds of voting stations in neighbors that were somehow in the communities of African American voters. So does having to wait in longer lines, on a weekday when you may not get the day off a way to suppress the vote? As for those photo ID's. It's a lot easier to compare it to getting a passport when you don't have to deal with the troubles of it.

Did you know at least 22 states allow some form of all-mail voting? That would alleviate/eliminate many of the problems you describe. Here is a link:

http://www.ncsl.org/research/electio...elections.aspx


I will just leave this here, maybe you will then see how it can be hard for a certain bloc of people to get photo ID's and how that's suppression:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.822269ded566

If it's that hard for people like those in the article to obtain a photo-ID, how would they even drag themselves down to the polls on election day if they had one? Maybe the state should despatch a mobile photo-ID van to their homes. In this day and age, everyone - no matter what age, income, or color - should carry a photo-ID, unless they're on the run from LE, in which case they have bigger things to worry about than voting.


If you can't except (sic) that, then I think we should leave it there because you are truly just going to shoot down the facts on how the voting laws have disproportionally effected (sic) minorities.

Aww millsy, you're no fun. You end every post the same way – agree with me, or I'm done.

You need to be more open to counter-arguments, otherwise you'll never shore up the weaknesses in your own arguments.

[Yssup Rider]

Are you actually arguing about Voter ID laws, Junior?

Cracker please!

[Milly23]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Aww millsy, you're no fun. You end every post the same way – agree with me, or I'm done.

You need to be more open to counter-arguments, otherwise you'll never shore up the weaknesses in your own arguments.

Alright dude, there are just certain things that will make me just be down with a person and denying the fact that people of my race and other minorities being prevented from voting in many states is one of them. It's a fact and it's been proven. If you can't believe that, I can't take anything you say seriously. Now you have to be one of two on the ignore list because you just proved you aren't trying to open your eyes to the wrongs people are dealing with.

[Austin Ellen]

Their heads are exploding..

[Yssup Rider]

Awwwww CHUCKY DUCKY!

Did you vote for him, Ellen?

HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

Their heads are exploding..

I must have missed something. What has Trump done in his first week in office? Stopped immigration from certain countries? And the Dow dropped 122 points because of it.

What other campaign promise has he tried to meet?