I am a Indy but like obama

[dirty dog]

"move all the reps over seas. people who have been their 10 20 years now pay at least 300 deductable. "

Are you fucking kidding me, in the real world most people pay $1500 to $2500 for deductables, and you think $300.00 is fucking bad. Seriously dude.............

[HeyMikie]

Originally Posted by Cheaper2buyit

Anybody says anything about at&t again & I am going to scream they are some greedy bastard & I know first hand. if they weren't union run they'd fire everyone & move all the reps over seas. people who have been their 10 20 years now pay at least 300 deductable.

You may be giving AT&T a bum rap (at least on health insurance). If employees have only a $300 deductible, it would appear that they (like many employees at many companies) are all being nicely sheltered from what's really happening to the cost of health care.

I would be VERY happy with $300 deductible, mine is currently $3,500.

Total premiums for my family were $1,246/mo, but BCBS is raising rates by 32% for 2010. I know everyone in our group, no one has had any medical claims, except annual visits, for 4-5 years, and no one has any major medical problem besides our age. It's not just BCBS, it's all of the major health insurance companies, we've tried them all to keep costs down. Over the past decade all of the annual premium hikes have been in the 15-25% range or more.

We are being raped by the Health Insurance Industry. There is no real competition, even the small "independents" are underwritten by the same four or five major companies, and that sets the prices for everyone (just like the petroleum industry).

There is no good choice in health care in the U.S., only the lessor of evils. We can have huge uncaring bureaucracies that put executives and share holders ahead of consumers collect and pay (or deny) everything, or we can let the government collect and pay.

We have NO VOICE with the insurance companies (ever try to call one?). We have elected representatives and can vote to change them in the U.S.

I am a fiscal conservative and hate expansion of government, but absent regulations and controls (removed in the 70's) to prevent the insurance corporations from preying upon the public at will, I believe our only reasonable choice is government centralization of health payments.

Given the current health care environment, I applaud the president for pushing a Health Care bill through. At the same time, I condemn him and our Congress for handing the control to the same system that has caused much, if not most, of the Health Care crisis.

President's grade for Health Care Reform promise: "D" The delivered reform is nothing like the "The same health care we senators have". I fear that the reform bill will probably simply exacerbate the problems we already face.

[Omahan]

Originally Posted by HeyMikie

We are being raped by the Health Insurance Industry.

You may be getting raped but it is not by your health insurance provider. Here is an article from last fall that gives a true picture of how much profit there is in health insurance. - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124947013703607453.html

The reason health insurance premiums keep going up is that the cost of health care is constantly going up. The cost of health care is mainly made up of doctors, hospitals and pharmaceuticals. It is just wrong to blame the health insurance industry.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

You say the same unsubstantiated BS over and over again. Bottom line is this, the liberals represent about 30 percent of the voting public and the minority vote is included in that. So a large number of independents and conservatives had to by into the rock star and vote for him, so as much as you would like to take the credit for that, the reality is that some of the tea party members you are attacking are the same crossover vote who your pushing away. You ask why they are protesting Obama, its simple, he represents the government, whom should they protest if they wish to protest the intrusion of government into private enterprise, Simon Crowl, they protest him the same way you protest Bush. So quit fucking whinning about it. So once again, you have a lot or statements in this post, back them up, if you cant then stop saying them. Your right, the liberal biased media has done a great job of demonizing the organization, of course they always do that to the things that scare them the most. So either provide sources for the statements you have made or just admit your a fart, a lot of noise but no substance.

Let's get some facts straight- I AM NOT WHINING- The Man I voted for WON-DEAL WITH IT!!! GOD WILLINGLY I HOPE WE ARE BOTH AROUND ON NOVEMEBER 5TH 2012 SO YOU CAN GRIPE AGAIN OF HOW OBAMA IS DESTROYING US.
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG- YOU AND THE TEA PARTY ARE THE WHINERS- OBAMA WON FAIR AND SQUARE UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT WHO STOLED THE 2000 ELECTION AND THE 2004 ELECTION WAS QUESTIONABLE- AGAIN MY GUY IS IN THE OFFICE AND YOU ARE THE LOSER- GET OVER IT OR GET LOST- DUDE

[dirty dog]

I see that you have nothing to back up your statements so you are back to the my guy is better than your guy response. How gay is that, do you jerk of to pictures of Obama, you throw around statements which have no factual basis and you get upset. I was right you are a fart, your all wind, have no subtance and you leave and oder. And lets set the record straight pussy, I have never said Obama is destroying anything, I am just not like you, I dont just agree with everything he does just because he belongs to your party. I am not a tea party member nor will I be, I just like to for once her the truth come out of anyone on the liberal lefts mouth. One more thing cumstain, I could give a shit about the 12 elections, I only respond when you make your cheerleader rah rah statements that have no factual basis. Oh yeah I see once again you have to drag Bush into it, geez dude, did you and Bush have an affair and he broke your heart, or what. You act like a jilted lover. By the way if your comment is not whinning then I am not sure what whinning is. Whaaaaa whaaaa, we one and there picking on my hero, whaaaaa whaaaaaa, I need my tippy cup.

"AGAIN MY GUY IS IN THE OFFICE"

Wow does Michelle know about you two.

"Let's get some facts straight- I AM NOT WHINING- The Man I voted for WON-DEAL WITH IT!!!"

So this entitles you to thow around statements that are not true like their fact. Hmmm Damn, I guess you are a liberal/progressive after all.

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Let's get some facts straight- I AM NOT WHINING- The Man I voted for WON-DEAL WITH IT!!! GOD WILLINGLY I HOPE WE ARE BOTH AROUND ON NOVEMEBER 5TH 2012 SO YOU CAN GRIPE AGAIN OF HOW OBAMA IS DESTROYING US.
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG- YOU AND THE TEA PARTY ARE THE WHINERS- OBAMA WON FAIR AND SQUARE UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT WHO STOLED THE 2000 ELECTION AND THE 2004 ELECTION WAS QUESTIONABLE- AGAIN MY GUY IS IN THE OFFICE AND YOU ARE THE LOSER- GET OVER IT OR GET LOST- DUDE

Yes, the candidate you supported won. That does NOT mean he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and not have people rise up in opposition and to try and stop him if what he proposes is so revolting and so anti-American.

As Samuel Adams once said: "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

And as Hillary Clinton once screeched: "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, ‘WE ARE AMERICANS AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH ANY ADMINISTRATION.' "

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by fritz3552

Yes, the candidate you supported won. That does NOT mean he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and not have people rise up in opposition and to try and stop him if what he proposes is so revolting and so anti-American.

As Samuel Adams once said: "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

And as Hillary Clinton once screeched: "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, ‘WE ARE AMERICANS AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH ANY ADMINISTRATION.' "

Last time I checked Obama was the President not the King of the USA. Our political syastem is not set up fr any one man or woman to do whatever he/she wants- you know we have these things called checks and balances. Now you are switching your tone to say Obama is anti-American. Please tell me what Obama has done that is anti-american? HealthCare??? Give me a break!!! The health care system was broken for years- although I don't think Obamacare is great- it surely is better than the status quo- also if you don't like Obamacare- tell me why you didn't complain to Mitt Romney who signed into law a bill that is a mirror image of ObamaCare??? Or tell me why he never got called out during the GOP primaries for his so called "socialist" Health Care bill in his own state?
Oh you are so right when you mentioned abut Disagreeing with the Administration- because funny how the right wing pundits and media station like Faux news were telling viewers that those who disagree with Bush's war with Iraw were unamerican and let's not forget during McCain's campaign against Obama he stood firmly behinf the fact that there were those who were more "American" than others and there were certain states and cities that were more
"American" than others- typical Karl Rove Bullshit that only the Right Wing was buying.
And let me clear one thing up once again- I am an Independent and for a long time I was supporting a lot of Conservative candidates- I actually like many of Ron Paul's views as well as Jesse Ventura both of whom consider themselves Liberterians- I am liberal on some issues- but mainly conservatives on most, but regardless whose in office- I want both parties to try to work together- they don't have to agree on every issue but they should work to best serve the American interest. I am very upset with mst of the GOP candidates as they have time after time have shown that they are just lookinng to get re-elected in November and the only way they can do so is to say "No" to every thing Obama puts out- even if they know it's for the greater good. The GOP had plenty of time to come up with their Health Care plan- and their plan only would cover 5 million- Obama extended the Olive branch to the GOP. Look how the GOP is stalling with this new finance reform- Obama's plan is to have the Big Banks set aside money of their own so Main street would not have to bail them out in the future, but you have some GOP politicians who ar on the side of the Big Banks who don't want this bill to pass- hmmm wonder what he TEA party people think when they discover that the GOP is on side of the Big Banks- very interesting.

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Last time I checked Obama was the President not the King of the USA. Our political syastem is not set up fr any one man or woman to do whatever he/she wants- you know we have these things called checks and balances. Now you are switching your tone to say Obama is anti-American. Please tell me what Obama has done that is anti-american? HealthCare??? Give me a break!!! The health care system was broken for years- although I don't think Obamacare is great- it surely is better than the status quo- also if you don't like Obamacare- tell me why you didn't complain to Mitt Romney who signed into law a bill that is a mirror image of ObamaCare??? Or tell me why he never got called out during the GOP primaries for his so called "socialist" Health Care bill in his own state?

Yes, the Bamster is the President, not the King of the USA. But, as is quoted in the Declaration of Independence, modified to the occassion: "A [President], whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people." It is difficult for the checks and balances outlined by the Constitution to take place when the other branches providing the checks and balances, including the "fourth estate", are rubber stamping every policy this Tyrant and his regime proposes. Quite frankly, the status quo of the health insurance system is much preferable to the load of shit passed by Congress - and I am not a resident of Massachusetts, so I have no standing to support or complain about RomneyCare. And I do not support Romney as a candidate for President, for he is one of the RINOs generally identified in the northeast corridor of the country.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Oh you are so right when you mentioned abut Disagreeing with the Administration- because funny how the right wing pundits and media station like Faux news were telling viewers that those who disagree with Bush's war with Iraw were unamerican and let's not forget during McCain's campaign against Obama he stood firmly behinf the fact that there were those who were more "American" than others and there were certain states and cities that were more "American" than others- typical Karl Rove Bullshit that only the Right Wing was buying.

Big difference here - we were attacked. We were (and still are) at war.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

And let me clear one thing up once again- I am an Independent and for a long time I was supporting a lot of Conservative candidates- I actually like many of Ron Paul's views as well as Jesse Ventura both of whom consider themselves Liberterians- I am liberal on some issues- but mainly conservatives on most, but regardless whose in office- I want both parties to try to work together- they don't have to agree on every issue but they should work to best serve the American interest. I am very upset with mst of the GOP candidates as they have time after time have shown that they are just lookinng to get re-elected in November and the only way they can do so is to say "No" to every thing Obama puts out- even if they know it's for the greater good. The GOP had plenty of time to come up with their Health Care plan- and their plan only would cover 5 million- Obama extended the Olive branch to the GOP. Look how the GOP is stalling with this new finance reform- Obama's plan is to have the Big Banks set aside money of their own so Main street would not have to bail them out in the future, but you have some GOP politicians who ar on the side of the Big Banks who don't want this bill to pass- hmmm wonder what he TEA party people think when they discover that the GOP is on side of the Big Banks- very interesting.

Actually, now the Dems are on the side of the big banks. The Bamster received close to a million dollars in contributions from Goldman Sachs; three prominent dems in both the Clinton and this Tyrant's administration are/were employed at Goldman Sachs; the lead attorney for Goldman Sachs is Greg Craig, who was Algore's lead attorney for Bush v Gore (2000), the lead counsel for Elian Gonzales' father and Fidel Castro and the regime's lead contact on the closing of Guantanamo Bay. I don't want the government in my health care, my automobile nor my banks.

From what I understand, Libertarians want no government interference at all in life. The support I see in this discussion that is being professed seems to lean towards the Progressive/Liberal side, which professes government control of all facets of life.

As a Conservative (not a Republican), I believe in limited government, fiscal responsibilty, a strong military, the protection and preservation of life as defined by the Constitution, strict Constitutional interpretation, no legislating by judicial fiat, tax cuts for all and allowing the free market to dictate economic conditions, both upwards and downwards. I see no reason to work with the other side or to "try and get along" if what the other side proposes is so distasteful and so anti-American. I will not, nor should I, compromise my principles for the purpose of "getting along" - if they want to get along, let the other side compromise their prinicples. Otherwise, I am confident that the principles and proposals of a true Conservative candidate will win out - it does every time it is tried.

[dirty dog]

whaaaaaaa, whaaaaaa, whaaaaaaaa, whaaaaaaaaa, whaaaaaaaaa

[dirty dog]

"some GOP politicians who ar on the side of the Big Banks who don't want this bill to pass- hmmm wonder what he TEA party people think when they discover that the GOP is on side of the Big Banks- very interesting."

Because the cost will be passed on to the avg american in higher fees. You liberals just dont seem to understand how a business works, your expenses get passed on to your consumers in the price they pay. You must just work at the Pharmacy not own it, maybe if you did you would understand how business works.

" "No" to every thing Obama puts out"

Because everything he has put out has cost the american people a lot of money that we do not have to spend, that we have to borrow from a country that 30 years from now we could be at war with. Yeah I know Bush tripled the national debt, but guess what Obama has blown way past that now. You know this brings up an interesting thought, a little off topic but maybe not. You keep talking about how much the war has cost the american people. I think many of you forget that the war started as a result of a terroist attack on this country. SO TELL ME, if you were the President on Sept 11 how would you have handled this situation. Attack the country Harboring the culprits, give a speach etc etc. How exactly would you have handled the situation. Had we not been attacked and had we not had a natural disaster that destroyed and entire city, I wonder how much the debt would have grown. So tell me how you would have handled it.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by fritz3552

Yes, the Bamster is the President, not the King of the USA. But, as is quoted in the Declaration of Independence, modified to the occassion: "A [President], whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people." It is difficult for the checks and balances outlined by the Constitution to take place when the other branches providing the checks and balances, including the "fourth estate", are rubber stamping every policy this Tyrant and his regime proposes. Quite frankly, the status quo of the health insurance system is much preferable to the load of shit passed by Congress - and I am not a resident of Massachusetts, so I have no standing to support or complain about RomneyCare. And I do not support Romney as a candidate for President, for he is one of the RINOs generally identified in the northeast corridor of the country.



Big difference here - we were attacked. We were (and still are) at war.



Actually, now the Dems are on the side of the big banks. The Bamster received close to a million dollars in contributions from Goldman Sachs; three prominent dems in both the Clinton and this Tyrant's administration are/were employed at Goldman Sachs; the lead attorney for Goldman Sachs is Greg Craig, who was Algore's lead attorney for Bush v Gore (2000), the lead counsel for Elian Gonzales' father and Fidel Castro and the regime's lead contact on the closing of Guantanamo Bay. I don't want the government in my health care, my automobile nor my banks.

From what I understand, Libertarians want no government interference at all in life. The support I see in this discussion that is being professed seems to lean towards the Progressive/Liberal side, which professes government control of all facets of life.

As a Conservative (not a Republican), I believe in limited government, fiscal responsibilty, a strong military, the protection and preservation of life as defined by the Constitution, strict Constitutional interpretation, no legislating by judicial fiat, tax cuts for all and allowing the free market to dictate economic conditions, both upwards and downwards. I see no reason to work with the other side or to "try and get along" if what the other side proposes is so distasteful and so anti-American. I will not, nor should I, compromise my principles for the purpose of "getting along" - if they want to get along, let the other side compromise their prinicples. Otherwise, I am confident that the principles and proposals of a true Conservative candidate will win out - it does every time it is tried.

Hold a FREAKING Minute- when were we attacked by Iraq? Give me the date that Saddam sent troops or terrosit over to the United States and attack us? You provide me that information and I will ban myself from eccie for life.

[lacrew_2000]

"tell me why you didn't complain to Mitt Romney who signed into law a bill that is a mirror image of ObamaCare???"

Because I don't live in Massachussetts. That question is extremely informative to me.

[lacrew_2000]

I think this thread may be reaching its expiration date. A quick recap: It was started with Cheaper stating he liked Obama. I asked what specifically he or anybody else liked.

I heard Cheaper say cash for clunkers, and some others have liked healthcare.

That's it...nobody chimed in on any of the other items on the list.

We also got to re-hash the Bush years...which I'm sure will be an election strategy.

A little newsflash: If Bush had an approval rating of 27%, and Obama's is 48%...well the 52% of the population who are opposed to Obama has to be comprised of people who didn't like Bush either. Get it? If somebody tells you he doesn't like an Obama policy, the response 'well Bush did blah' is just foolish.

I was also accused of making stuff up...so I had to find links.

Other people were using made up 'facts'...so I had to find links.

I was told to 'grow up'...so I had to find links.

But pretty much Obama support has manifested itself as rehashing Bush, personal attacks, and incorrect statistics that Michael Moore throws around....yet its the GOP who won't 'work together'????

I could start a whole new thread on how the two parties have handled committee assignments and ammendments when in the majority...but I'd have to find links.

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Hold a FREAKING Minute- when were we attacked by Iraq? Give me the date that Saddam sent troops or terrosit over to the United States and attack us? You provide me that information and I will ban myself from eccie for life.

September 11, 2001. It's been nice having you as a member.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by fritz3552

September 11, 2001. It's been nice having you as a member.

Are you telling me the alledged 19 hijackers were citizens of Iraq? Also, Saddam was behind 9-11??? Hmmm they better rewrite all the history books. You don't the difference between Saddam and Osama do you? Perhaps you are such a far right wing republican that you believe all muslims were responsible for the attack. Also, you can take that constitution and wipe your shitty ass with it- because I could care less what your racist forefathers wrote- you are talking about centuries old documents that had to be revised so many times- didn't the original constitution state that Blacks were worth 3/5 of a white person? Do you know how many President owned slaves? Do you know that Linclon abolished slavery in order to win the war and not bewcause he thought blacks were equal. So don't give me this bullshit about what the constituton says or doesn't say- this land was built by various races- but you think it somehow is your land or your people;s land. This is God's earth no one man or race can hold claim to any piece of land. The majority of this land was built upon slave labor. The constitution was written at a time when those men thought it was ok to have inferior races and own slaves- so it just baffles me when some moron starts spewing out the constitution says this the constitution says that - go wipe the shit out of your ass with the constitution.
Obviously Bush didn't give a shit about the Constitution or Bill of Rights when he enacted the Patriot act and other wiretapping measures.
if you are not smart enough to realize that Al-queada is the boogeyman that America must have then continue to listen to Rush, Beck and Hannity. The United States must have an enemy to achieve their agenda. How long did we listen to rhetoric about the evil empire of the soviets- and when they collasped we immediately found a new Boogey man- Al-Queada. Do you honestly think the United States has not done any bad in the world? Are we the Angels of the world and would never do any harm? Weren't we friends with Saddam and even supplied saddam in his war against Iran? Weren't we an ally of Iran when the Shah was in power? Wasn't the Shah one of the most brutal dictators of his time- yet because he was our ally we looked the other way- why he corrupted that nation hence that's why they revolted. Going back to the Iran/Iraq war- we were on Iraq side- supplying them with millions of dollars and military aid, yet towards the end of that war we were secretly supplying the enemy Iran??? Don't you remember the Iran/Contra scandal- remember Oliver North? Does that ring a bell? What we did was equivalent to the United States supplying Al-Queada with money and military weapons to carry out attacks against NATO- or supplying Hamas with aid to help attack Isreal.
Oh but the good ole USA would never do anything liek that right? not the good ole God-fearing USA that stands by its constitution and will never do wrong- GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!! I AM DONE WITH THIS- ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS ON NOV 4TH 2012 CAST YOUR VOTE FOR MITT ROMNEY, PLAIN, OR WHATEVER GOP CANDIDATE AND I WILL CAST MY VOTE FOR WHOMEEVER I THINK IS THE BEST CANDIDATE UNTIL THEN SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!