Hobby perspective after some years?

[Rehke]

Value is an individual proposition. I'm not going to quibble with anyone about what they value, you are completely correct in pointing out that it can have various meanings.

But I really like your comment about goals.

I hear a lot about goals from girls. They "want" to do this or that or whatever. And I think you have to ask if that's what you want to do, then why are you not doing it???

When I was finishing up HS, I wanted a career in nursing. I got my LPN nine months after HS graduation. I wanted to work ICU. 3 Months after passing my boards and working in Med/Surg I landed a position in an ICU. Somewhere around 19-20 I had a patient recognize my voice and tell me that it was my efforts that gave him something to hang on to that saved his life.

You want to talk to me about what you want to do? I know how to do what I want. I've got a whole 40+ years of doing amazing things. Above is just one example.

In life, people do what they want to do. If you want to know what a person really wants in life, watch what they do. Period. There is no better indicator.

So I'll go so far as to help a girl define a plan, and I'll let her know how I can help with that plan. But then it's time to step back a little and see if she runs with it or just keeps on doing whatever it is she wants to do.

Keep in mind that there are just plain a class of women out there who are extremely good at telling you what you want to hear. I think a decent working idea of what Borderline Personality and Narcissistic disorders are helps in recognizing this as well.

Generally, the underlying psychological pathology is exacerbated by substance abuse.

Or, just watch for what they do not do.

Originally Posted by Sir Lancehernot

Thanks for bringing something into sharp focus for me. I fall into the same category, except for me it's "this stupid idea that you can help a pretty young woman achieve her goals or simply make it day-to-day, by doing something other than just paying her to have sex with you, and get some value in return."

"Value" is a relative term. It doesn't mean freebies, though a guy would be a fool to turn down that type of value. But it might mean a better, more intimate P4P experience. It might be going to a movie, putting your arm around her, and snuggling while you smell her clean hair. It might be buying her lunch and just enjoying conversation about anything besides what brought you together. Or it might be simply relearning the joy you get from helping others.

[Sir Lancehernot]

Originally Posted by Rehke

But I really like your comment about goals.

I hear a lot about goals from girls. They "want" to do this or that or whatever. And I think you have to ask if that's what you want to do, then why are you not doing it???

...

In life, people do what they want to do. If you want to know what a person really wants in life, watch what they do. Period. There is no better indicator.

I think I've developed a decent spidey-sense about that. Either that, or I've been lucky. Te women who've brought out my helpful instincts have been 1) a full-time college student majoring finance, 2) a suburban housewife who needed money to fund a custody battle for her two kids (the father was supposedly an asshole, but then again, that's de riguer, right? ), 3) a woman with the education and certification for a fallback career, and with a defined timetable and exit plan, and 4) a woman going to college whose goals are uncertain but who knows that she can't pursue this line of work indefinitely, and who doesn't want a management career in this industry.

In short, I tend to be attracted to women who (I perceive) are closer to the world that I am familiar with, women that, were circumstances different, I not be embarrassed about being seen with in public and that I would have no qualms about pursuing a RW relationship with them.

[DarthDVader]

I am by nature a facilitator and my skills have allowed me to work as a business rescuer and developer, it is something that is within me and has led me to help people Ive met during my life ...

Some years ago when I was still hunting the WW, I met an extraordinary young lady that now is one the most popular and successful young ladies here, you would be surprised ... at that time she was being lied and taken advantage by her girlfriend manager ...

By chances of destiny she found out through one of the times we met and was so disappointed to the point she wanted to quit ... She offered me to be some sort of her Sugar Daddy and pay for her very basic bills ... that was one hell of an offer for me ... I didn't take it because I fell I would be abusive of her need ... my personal situation didn't help as well ...

Instead, I thought her the basics, helped her recover her accounts and connected her with ladies that could act as her mentors ... she learned the ropes and through hard work, got to be very successful and appreciated in the community ...

I remember telling her: I'm just helping you, I'm helping you so you can launch and accomplish this short term goal, but I don't want to be responsible for the outcome of your future life, If you get trapped or something goes wrong ... It has to be your sole decision ...
I also told her, I'm helping you and I don't want anything in exchange ... you dont owe me anything ...

I expressed her that I couldn't see her as provider for the rest of her life and that I would really expect her to put in place a life plan ...
I know she has a plan to get herself a career for the future ...

I have met many ladies that ended up providing after difficult life situations ... Ive met ladies that don't belong here and definitely have a different future ...

Time will tell ...

Originally Posted by Sir Lancehernot

"this stupid idea that you can help a pretty young woman achieve her goals or simply make it day-to-day, by doing something other than just paying her to have sex with you, and get some value in return."

Originally Posted by Rehke

I hear a lot about goals from girls. They "want" to do this or that or whatever. And I think you have to ask if that's what you want to do, then why are you not doing it???

[Bob the Nailer]

Back on topic; over time, I have found that IOP is very important for me as I age. I thought I found my new ATF, but she got a RL job and haven't been able to connect for a while. She was so into the sex too and that made it hot!!!! Wasn't an illusion with her.

Secondly would be communication. Providers that remember me and (at least) act happy to see me and talk a little about things we find interesting or have in common.

I do like the youngsters, but service quality is going to be less consistent, generally speaking.

[Rehke]

I've spent the last few days letting go of a lot of lessons learned, history, personal frustrations and some insight to my own evolution as I've considered 20 years in the hobby.

I touched on my "last windmill" and I think it's time to share some thoughts in retrospect to both recent events and where I'm at after going through this sharing process.

First off, I suspect that this is not my parting shot, nor will I end up leaving the hobby community even as my hobby activities decline.

Second, it hasn't been all bad. In fact, I've got to say with 2 definite, possibly a third minor exception I have had some positive impact and been served reasonably well by the providers that I've known personally.

I realize as I was purging this out and recalling all the history, that I may have given the perception that every time I stepped into someone's life it was a disaster. And that's not what I intended to convey. Yes, there have been some spectacular disasters, but for the most part, despite their problems, their substance issues, their lack of life skills, their mental illness, despite all of that, for the most part these girls have simply been humans trying to survive.

I've been told several times that I helped a girl through a tough time. And some have shown some extra appreciation, some have simply chosen to stick to business, but provided a good service at a fair rate. Yes, some have taken advantage of extra kindness shown them, but most haven't. In their own, strange, quirky, provider mentality sort of way, most have tried to be at least fair, if not caring as much as they could.

While I've spent a lot of time mired in the more negative end of some things, and spent far too much time on some people, I think my largest frustration in the hobby the past several years is that I really have not found that ATF experience again.

Some of us guys are the variety type. I'm the other type. I find a girl I click with, we do our business, we also get to know each other a little beyond that. I think my last true ATF was lil Alexis. She went through several evolutions in this business, and I was there through most of it. When I had a problem with her, I was able to let her know and she corrected things. She gave me fair and decent rates, she didn't try to gouge me, and there was some specials too. She shared freely of her sexuality and did everything she could to make sure I had a good experience with her. And she was scrupulously professional in not allowing things to get too personal.

I do not regret one bit of the thousands I spent knowing her, not in the least. I do not regret one thing I did to help her, and I will always remember enjoying dinner with her at my favorite restaurant.

She wasn't high class, wasn't a HDH, wasn't even really GFE. But she was real within the boundaries she was comfortable with. Wherever she is in life, I hope she is doing well.

Shay Monroe was probably the most fucked up girl I ever spent time with and for a while the time I spent with her was off the charts. I was always amazed at how little she asked for, how crazy she was, and I would love to know if she's safe and happy.

While some girls will be remembered for the hard lessons they taught me about running game, pimps, substance abuse, and being incredibly manipulative...more will be remembered for being sweethearts in their own ways. And for sharing a sliver of themselves.

Some of you girls really get it, and you are worth every cent. Some of you are absolute shit and deserve what you get in life.

It isn't all bad, nor is every act of kindness, help or generosity wasted. Yes, be careful who you chose in life and know when to walk away and when to stick with someone through tough times. There are gems in the grime and filth.

[falconbueller]

Originally Posted by Rehke

Some of you girls really get it, and you are worth every cent. Some of you are absolute shit and deserve what you get in life.

Somewhere some of the ladies are saying this about us. Of course, I'm not entirely sure which one I belong in...

[DarthDVader]

Yes, I remember the sweethearts with appreciation ... I also remember the hard lessons learned ...

Originally Posted by Rehke

While some girls will be remembered for the hard lessons they taught me about running game, pimps, substance abuse, and being incredibly manipulative...more will be remembered for being sweethearts in their own ways. And for sharing a sliver of themselves.

[SD2011]

Originally Posted by falconbueller

Somewhere some of the ladies are saying this about us. Of course, I'm not entirely sure which one I belong in...

100% agree

I've been very lucky (so far) with the ladies I've met. Each one was/is unique, lovely and a pleasure to spend time with.

Actually, I feel very damn lucky...

[Rehke]

Originally Posted by !!Sexy Erotic Morgan

So, how do you guys really feel about us?

You guys have no one to blame but yourselves for your bad experiences. This website offers so much information

If you want to have nothing but good experiences as a client, it is quite possible. Stop trolling the Welcome Wagon and support your real, professional providers!

My other thread on the ATF experience has led to some more thoughts related to some points you bring up here.

How do I feel about providers? I like 'em. Providers and strippers are extremely interesting people that I find I relate to very easily.

I'm also very, very aware of the drawbacks and risks of dealing with providers. And yeah, there are a few who have earned my ire.

And I wanted to comment on the responsibility factors for your experiences as providers. I've heard and witnessed countless horror stories of guys being jerks. When a guy like me, with P411 OK's stretching back years, and enough posts on here to give some pretty good insight as to my character has problems finding something to fit his needs, or to get scheduled with a particular girl (not all the time mind you), then someone is missing the boat on the provider end also.

There's enough guys looking to find some decent action without too much drama that you girls can pick and choose to a great degree. I'm not talking about the fake-ass WK's who are looking to ingratiate themselves. I'm talking up-front, stand-up guys who tell it like it is with respect and dignity. I'm not one to pander, I've got the balls to say things that I know providers won't like if that's how I see it.

For instance, I'm not a big fan of tipping providers. I also don't sweat the $10 difference between what the ATM spits out and a girl's rates. So in many cases, she's already getting a little extra. And sometimes I do tip.

I do believe in taking care of the people who take care of me. And, hell, I make it easy and tell a girl that I really like exactly how she can capture and keep my interest and get that extra out of me. But some girls just don't get it, just like some guys do not. All I'm looking for is a fair exchange based on what I can do and what she can do.

The number of girls who do not screen and do their own research is quite high. You point them to P411, give me a vouch and they don't follow up. You point them to ECCIE and they neglect the resources available to them that would reduce their risks and give them better probabilities for better clients and calls.

Having owned a horse, it's very true you can lead one to water, but you cannot make him or her drink.

[Guest010719-1]

I think having a connection is Key to having fun in this hobby!!! Well... at least at my age...lol!!!
I crave the touch of a man and when I meet someone that craves to be touched.....LOOK OUT!!!
IT IS ON!!!

[eccienewbie]

You know it's a good topic when Jessica comments on it.

[Guest010719-1]

Kisses http://www.eccie.net/member.php?u=29518

[Guest010719-1]

YOU KNOW I LOVE THAT PASSION!!!! EccieNewbie..I am your #1 fan!!

[eccienewbie]

Originally Posted by jessica

YOU KNOW I LOVE THAT PASSION!!!! EccieNewbie..I am your #1 fan!!

Whoa!

Dang, it's all downhill for me after that comment (but great to be at the top for a moment, lol).

Right back at you, pretty girl.

[falconbueller]

Originally Posted by jessica

I think having a connection is Key to having fun in this hobby!!! Well... at least at my age...lol!!!
I crave the touch of a man and when I meet someone that craves to be touched.....LOOK OUT!!!
IT IS ON!!!

She ain't lying.... I have to take 2 weeks off after her. LOL