NFL and Houston Texans Superthread: Are we ready for some football?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Satin

BT, weak arguments? Dude, you're the epitome of weak arguments. I can only count one person who agrees with your stupid pathetic assessments of KJ and Dopey. And further, I can't find any experts on sports 610 or anywhere else that agrees with the ignorant shit you throw out. So keep taking shots bro, I have plenty more....

Just recently on this thread alone, it seems Easye, Gnadfly, Mixshowdj, Daddio...and others who haven't posted about it - like DED - and others all agree about KJ....you're the only one with the opposite ridiculous opinions...

Well, I am not aware of The General being an ECCIE poster but he and I are on the same page when it comes to Schaub having more value to the Texans organization going into the 2012 season than any other player.

Where do you have Schaub rated? Do you agree with the General and I?

Or do you side with your loyal Lapdog, Daddio?

As for KJ, you will probably find it hard to believe but I trust Kubes and Wade's opinion on KJ's value to the Texans, more so than yours and/or Daddio's. In case you have not noticed, Kubes and Wade has yet to cut KJ. When and if they do, I will be ok with their decision. And if they decide to put KJ on Special Teams and let him mature and develop as a player, I will be ok with that, as well!

Just sayin'

[Daddio]

BT name a motherfucking starting qb that isn't the most valuable player on his team??? Schaub isn't. Foster is!!! Andre is more valuable than dopey too.

Also don't you think Schaub will be targeted? Like a bounty? You know they will be going for his feet constantly. I am glad we have a backup with a playoff win under his belt!!!

[One-Eyed Willy]

U fellers are loosing me... WTF are we talking about again???

BT.. especially you.. what are you saying?? How are Satin's arguments weak? Everything he stated seems pretty on point to me--whether I agree or not.

Though there may be, I don't see anyone favoring TJ to start over Schaub 2012.

And business-wise, how can you justify paying a mediocre-at-best, 1st-rd'r, in his 3rd yr, $2.0M for developmental special teams play on a cap-strapped team? The General is in favor of this too? Where? When? If that is what it comes to, the CUT seems to be the best way out. In the argument over placing this feller back to rookie-style development on special teams vs releasing him ASAP, stating he should be cut now makes a lot more sense to me. This is the NFL.. Hell I don't even think they do that shit in college..

Cushing was voted 2011 MVP by the players though IMHO Foster was neck and neck. Going into 2012-as in the most important player you don't want to loose before opening day, there is a valid argument in favor of Schaub. However, now seeing what TJ can do, its pretty damn close and hard to rate. Foster, Dre, Schaub, Cushing, (in no particular order) are all extremely valuable assets. Its difficult to decide who would be the most valuable... Howeverm looking at the #nextmanup, I'll make an attempt.

Though Foster is my personal favorite, we have Tate. Though Schaub is the starting franchise QB, TJ showed a lot of promise. Loosing Dre, who steps up? looking at last year... NOBODY... Loosing Cush, who steps up??? I'll be damned if we had to find out..

Therefore it is my short piddly shit assessment that Cushing and Dre are the most valuable players going into next season.. NO I do not agree with you and the general..

BTW anyone else notice the 1st of the Texans made the Top-100 Players of 2011.. J Jo voted #73 Got me wondering who else gets on and where Foster ends up. top 20? top 10?... Cush??

Also, BTW I think this Beck feller is just a camp arm though he may have a shot at competing w/Keenum for the #3 spot.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Satin

I only point out his many flaws when BT gets on here....

Originally Posted by bigtex

I thought that was because you finally realized how weak your arguments were!

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

BT..How are Satin's arguments weak?

You guys are a trip! Why is telling Satin his football arguments are weak any different than him pointing out many flaws in mine? It really does not matter who is pulling whose chain, it is just trash talking no matter whose doing the "yanking!" Get over it!!!!!

It is not like the only trash talked is done in this forum! Trash talking occurs in sports and politics all of the time! Football and politics are both contact sports and I can trash talk in either language!

Geez, you guys take this shit wayyyyyyyyy too friggin seriously!

Damn, I just can't wait for the 2012 season to get here. If both the Texans and Schaub have good seasons, I've only begun the trash talking.

[Guest042413]

YALL Need To Stop Fighting Before You Make Me & Bella Open Some Whoop Ass Around Here Yall Are Argueing Over Men Playing With Balls WTF So Smile

[boardman]

Originally Posted by oLiViA88

YALL Need To Stop Fighting Before You Make Me & Bella Open Some Whoop Ass Around Here Yall Are Argueing Over Men Playing With Balls WTF So Smile

This thread just became AWESOME!

[bbkid]

Originally Posted by oLiViA88

YALL Need To Stop Fighting Before You Make Me & Bella Open Some Whoop Ass Around Here Yall Are Argueing Over Men Playing With Balls WTF So Smile

How about a thread about you and Bella opening up that can of whoop ass and YA'LL playing with some balls, huh?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by oLiViA88

YALL Need To Stop Fighting Before You Make Me & Bella Open Some Whoop Ass Around Here Yall.

Make me an offer I can't refuse!

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by bigtex

You guys are a trip! Why is telling Satin his football arguments are weak any different than him pointing out many flaws in mine? It really does not matter who is pulling whose chain, it is just trash talking no matter whose doing the "yanking!" Get over it!!!!!

It is not like the only trash talked is done in this forum! Trash talking occurs in sports and politics all of the time! Football and politics are both contact sports and I can trash talk in either language!

Geez, you guys take this shit wayyyyyyyyy too friggin seriously!

Damn, I just can't wait for the 2012 season to get here. If both the Texans and Schaub have good seasons, I've only begun the trash talking.

Too seriously? Nah... just havin fun.. when it comes to football, I'm just glad our Texans are being talked about. Hell, we even got cowboy & pits fans on here breaking down our team. You helped provoke that so

Really matter who does the yankin?? I admit Satin is my bud but that won't stop me from voicing a different opinion. Hell buds are usually the ones who have the most heated arguments bout sports anyway.. Hell, just ask him who the lakers lost to...TWICE In the case with KJ, IMHO he makes a better case. Plain and simple. And did I not just have a little debate with daddio bout kubes?... I put more effort into that than I did on this. When the time comes u make the best arguement and I share the same opinion, ill back you too. But does it really matter? To each their own. Right?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

IMHO he makes a better case. Plain and simple.

To follow up what Willy wrote on May 1, 2012:

Originally Posted by One-Eyes Willy

Satin, if you remember Kareem Jackson was the 1st round pick 2010. They might give the feller another shot. He got better last year but still MUCH room for improvement. Perhaps they give him the start. They rook DB's seem to take longer to get acclimated to the NFL. However if he doesn't improve dramatically and start to play like a 3rd yr 1st rd pick, he won't be around much longer.

Willy, apparently you must have dramatically changed your mind since May 1! What you said at the time was very similar to what I have been saying all along. Shall we frame the things you said on May 1?

1) We "should give the feller (meaning KJ) another shot."
2) That KJ improved in year 2 over year 1.
3) That there was "still MUCH room for improvement."
4) That "rook DB's seem to take longer to get acclimated to the NFL."
5) That KJ should "start to play like a 3rd yr 1st rd pick," or "he won't be around much longer."

Those were all excellent points my friend. quite frankly. I was in agreement with each and every one of them. That being the case there seemed to be quite a bit of agreement between you and I, as it relates to KJ!

The only other real difference between my position and yours (at least on May 1) would be that I have also stated that I felt KJ might be able to play on Special Teams while he continues to mature and develop and hopefully one day soon develop to the point where he could be a "serviceable starter." I am curious, do you disagree with my view that KJ could play on Special Teams while he matures and develops and hopefully one day he might become at least a 'serviceable starter?" Even if you don't care for my Special Teams approach, you seemed to be much closer to my point of view on that issue (at least you were on May 1) than you were to Satin's cut him now approach.

There was another difference between Satin's position and mine. I previously made the claim that I felt the Texans Coaching Staff should be making the final decision to cut players, not the fans. I have repeatedly claimed that I did not feel cutting KJ was my decision to make and am quite comfortable with Kubes, Wade and the Texans Staff making the decision whether they cut him or not. I have even gone on to say that if (and when) they do make the decision, I will not have a problem with the decision to cut their ties with KJ. My reasoning: the coaching staff sees him every day in workouts, practice and games. Obviously I don't. Am I wrong in your eyes in thinking the coaching staff is much better equipped to make that decision than the average fan?????

If that is your opinion, you and I will have to agree to disagree! Given your statements about KJ on May 1 (and my agreement with) how do you say that Satin "makes the better case, Plain and simple." Unless of course, you have changed your mind since May 1!

[One-Eyed Willy]

You always seem to get a chuckle out of me...


No I haven't changed my mind. I'm just saying the idea of cutting KJ is not a weak argument. It makes a lot of sense. I would agree if I felt that we had a valid replacement. For example, if we still had J. Allen, I would be the main feller rooting for the cut. By any chance, if Kareem is as bad as Satin and others think he is, in all likelihood someone will beat him out in training camp and he will be cut.

The problem I have with your approach is that it is a digression. You seem to be ignoring the fact that HE IS A STARTER. In the NFL fellers don't go from starter to a developmental special teams role. It seems to me like it would be giving the player "special treatment" and would be rather embarrassing for the player to have to go through that. Usually if a player is not progressing, he is CUT or TRADED and another team may try to further develop him. If you want to beef up your stance, name some players (CB's) that have ping-ponged from starter to developmental and back again to have great careers.

So just like I said if he is still here when the season begins--all indications are he will be. Start him, but make it a trial by fire. On other words, if he STILL is not the player we thought we drafted, put him on the trading block and get rid of him.

I just don't see the 2012 Texans as a team that should be "RE-developing" starters. The window for a championship is very narrow. Our starters need to play at the highest level NOW. Anyone else on the team that is not starting, should not be paid a starter's salary. Remember were cap-strapped. For Kareem, we need him to be that guy NOW. Not later. That's my stance. Trial by fire!!! START HIM OR CUT HIM. Let him know how much we're counting on him and let him know his ass is on the line. As for the coaches, it seems they feel he is prepared enough to be a starter in this league. Its up to him to keep that position. Also for the coaches' sake, I just hope they keep the #nextmanup theme going in the case Kareem doesn't survive the season.

Originally Posted by bigtex

Am I wrong in your eyes in thinking the coaching staff is much better equipped to make that decision than the average fan?????

Come on man... Your just being facetious... Should I ask you how many playoff games Dopey has won?

[Satin]

Lmao, good question Cat-Man, but trust me, he won't answer that one...

I apologize for missing a bit the last few days, but I'm not on Icky every day....so I hope you boys behave.

BM is right, the girls just made this thread more awesome...keep it up chicas...

Cat-Man, I'm glad you make some sense bro and I know it's hard to argue with someone like BT, but keep it up...he's hilarious!!!

Well BT, I guess most of this board and also 80% of sports 610 DJ's are my "lap-dogs" too because I listen every day and they all say the same thing. But I guess you are much smarter though right? Lmao...

The only semi- intelligent thing you said is to let the coaches make the decisions. I actually agreed, but I still can voice my opinion as well. They are not always right...again, do you remember Okoye? Finally had to cut him loose right?....first round pick...remember?

Just for the record....I'll say again, I want them all to do well and win the freaking Superbowl...but the reality is this:

1. Dopey is an "slightly above average QB" who's in the 2nd tier of QB's in the league.
2. KJ is one of the worst "cover corners" in the league... he's fucking terrible. (he can tackle) but can't cover his fucking eyes. If he doesn't make some miraculous turn-around, they will be forced again to admit they fucked up and cut his ass.

Those are my 2 arguments and neither one is weak. BT, if you wanna be the class clown, go ahead bro, I won't stop you, but Daddio and others are right on what they say dude. I'll still have a drink with you, but apparently your football IQ is pretty low. Keep talking, you are making my point every time you do. Cat-Man is not gonna bend, and he makes good points....along with Daddio, Mixshow, Easye and others.

Cat-Man, great posts on your last few bro....I hear you. Damn, if shit is this hot now, I can't imagine what it's gonna be like in the Fall. I think we need to take the girls with us to a game...they won't give a damn, but it would be fun after....

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Satin

Lmao, good question Cat-Man, but trust me, he won't answer that one.

I am not sure why Satin wants me to "answer" the following question but I will give it a whirl!

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

If you want to beef up your stance, name some players (CB's) that have ping-ponged from starter to developmental and back again to have great careers.

Silly me! I thought I had already mentioned Chris Dishman elsewhere in this thread? Apparently not! I apologize in advance for the oversight on my part!

I do not know if Dishman's career should be put in the "great" category. But he eventually became an All Pro. I do not know about you but becoming an All Pro CB in the NFL is certainly good enough for me! Will KJ become another Dishman? Who in the hell knows? By the same token, I don't know that he won't become another Dishman either! I have said all along, let's allow KJ time to mature and develop and if after 3 or 4 seasons he has not shown significant improvement, let him go! Why is that a bad thing?

Just sayin'

Speaking of Houston professional football players who ended up in the "late bloomer" category. The name Jason Babin quickly comes to mind. Or did I mention him already?


BTW, I hope Satin is happy now that I have responded to your question! He is sure a hard MoFo to please. Unless you happen to be one of his Lapdogs! Of which I am proud to say, I'm not!

[Mixshowdj]

Hmmmm.......Let's see...someone mentioned jason babin? 1# draft pick Houston Texans in 2004. 6-2,260,4.65 40yd dash. been with the seahawks,chiefs,eagles,titans, and the eagles again last year,where he finally made ALL-PRO.....Babin is gonna be 32. He just had the best season of his life,because of the players AROUND him. He's not a great player...Anyone remember Travis Johnson? Amobi Okoye? even David Carr? The were All number one picks of the texans. They were all SCRAP.....so ..hence..they were cut. In todays NFL,As a STARTER&1#draft pick,you better produce IMMEDIATLEY....So i too...agree with SATIN,EASY,DADDIO,&ONE-EYED WILLIE....on KJ's analysis. But If you have a Defense like the texans,with a 1#corner on the other side,and a decent safety,how can you NOT MAKE PLAYS? ok....maybe the kid shows improvement this year,we'll see,but i can assure you,even the coaches can see "IT" The texans will be looking at a corner in next years draft,and would have signed MARCUS TRUFANT from seattle,if they were not cash-strapped by salary cap. On top of that,in case the KJ supporters dont know,The texans contacted DALLAS about MIKE JENKINS..but the price was too high...any questions? As for BELLA SOLIS and OLIVIA88...they are both on my ALL-PRO TEAM.....

[One-Eyed Willy]

Thanks Satin... & great posts MixShow! & BT

Originally Posted by bigtex

I recall an Oilers CB from the late 80's or early 90's named Chris Dishman. His first 2-3 years he was repeatedly burned on deep passes and inpatient fans on the sports talk shows were constantly talking about how he should be cut immediately. He went on to become one of the top starting CB's in the NFL and the best DB on the Oiler's team. In fact, he made All Pro several times. I am glad our coaching staff did not listen to the inpatient fans and cut him. His level of play paid huge dividends by the time he became a 4 or 5 year veteran.

I'm not saying that KJ will become another Dishman. But it is not out of the realm of possibility that he will! What I am saying is that he is worthy of a spot on the 52 man roster for now and hopefully he will develop into a serviceable defensive back, whether it be at Corner or at Safety. At the very least, he might become a good special teams player! Let's give him some time and let him mature as opposed to cutting him now and running the risk of him becoming another teams All Pro.

OK BT... Yeah I saw your comparison and think it was an excellent post... After all he did make a huge improvement in 2011 over 2010. Hell I was at the ATL game where he came up HUGE on the last play.... The entire stadium held their breath with the ball going in Kareem's direction and I thought it was over when Julio Jones was able to put 2 hands on the ball. However, Kareem was able to get just enough leverage to pry Jone's arms apart forcing the incompletion.. To my disbelief, the feller actually saved the game & without picking up a stupid ass interference penalty ...



That being said/illustrated... I think we all agree he is still not where we need him to be.. Hence this whole discussion.. The ONLY problem I have with what your saying is your suggestion with the digression back to developing him via practice and taking a lesser special teams role.. Not so much because it cant be done, but more so because of the bigger picture of being cap-strapped and being in close competition for Houston's 1st ever RING... If it comes to placing well-payed starters back to a developmental special teams, it just doesn't sit right with me. What I'm saying is that with Time and $$ factoring in, we have neither. If he was able to take a $1-1.5Mil pay cut. Then I'd totally agree... Other than that, we are ultimately saying the same thing..

And I don't remember much about Dishman other than the name. Are you saying he went from starter to special teams and back??

I think Mixshow brushed on a good point about having J Jo on the other side.. Just look at what a difference he made last year... Bringing in another vet CB could send our #2 Defense OVER THE TOP... However, keeping KJ with the same salary taking a lesser role could easily handcuff us in the process.

So cutting him could free up cap room to bring in another vet (thats where I'd agree with Satin). Just "cold cutting" him without bringing in help makes me too nervous because I don't feel comfortable about our depth at the position (Thats where I disagree with Satin).

Essentially my approach kind of goes along with what were hearing/seeing from Kubes.. KJ is a starter and made big improvements last year. Thus far he is the starter going into 2012. However, if he doesn't improve to the point where we need him to be, he becomes more of a liability than an asset.

If our goal is the SB, we need him to play at the highest level NOW NOT LATER.. We have a tough schedule next year and he will be facing 3 ELITE QB's!! Rogers, Manning, and Brady... 2 of which we will likely be facing again come playoffs. Therefore, in trusting the coaches decision in having faith that he is good enough to start on a playoff team, I'll go along with it for now.. But come mid season, if this feller is still falling down, blowing coverages, getting called for interference on 3rd downs, and not finding the ball.... I'LL BE A PISSED OFF MOTHER FUCKER!!! hehehe..

Agree or disagree... at this point I'm growing tired of the whole KJ thing.. And I'm sure it won't be the end of it with Satin pointing out all KJ's f'ups throughout the season.. I'm just hoping the best for the feller and hope it doesn't go that far,,,

BTW Satin,,, Bringing the ladies is a genius idea... And en-light of this comment I suggest we have a few debates as well... Feisty Latinas... aye ya yae Mamacitas!!!

Originally Posted by oLiViA88

YALL Need To Stop Fighting Before You Make Me & Bella Open Some Whoop Ass Around Here Yall Are Argueing Over Men Playing With Balls WTF So Smile