More Evidence Emerges Confirming Covid Lab-Leak Theory, But Corporate Media Stay Silent

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Covid-19 must have been created & released by the Democrats as a scheme to defeat Donald Trump in 2020!

Based on the timing of the work in PA to allow mail in ballots that completed about the same time the pandemic broke out and things like the below... It's not beyond reason that the Dems worked with ChiComs (through Fauci) for the lab leak to happen. The timing alone ought to make everyone suspicious. But the sheep are okay with it... So they deserve all the suffering their inaction results in.

Originally Posted by lustylad

Seriously, where are you on the origin question? If you had $100 to put on a zoonotic versus a lab-leak source, would your bet be 50/50 or what?

LOL... even without forensic evidence from DNA joins on the virus, The fact that a virus HAPPENS to originate less than 10 miles from the ONLY research facility in China that studies that EXACT virus in a nation that is 3,7 MILLION Square Miles... what are the odds? You'd have to be as dumb as Biden to believe that it DIDN'T come from the Wuhan bio weapons lab... that the US WAS SECRETLY FUNDING.

What is it the Democrats say? By ANY means NECESSARY!

[eyecu2]

Now if the Dems could only figure out a way to insert the virus into a device that only extreme MAGA ppl wear!?? Say something that is made in China, and could have the disease already to go, and then have the recipients not only take and use, but do so gleefully!!?? What kind of adornment would be so universally loved that the DEMs could rely on a steady stream of willing victims to touch and never suspect that it's the way that they secretly keep the Covid ruse going??? What ever could that be???

Of course a lab could make a nefarious device that only right wingers would get and continue to reinfect each other by sharing this mass infection device, and also be visible to the DEMs to stay away from, ...you know since it's a conspiracy and stuff....maybe a hat???!!

Nah...they would never be DUMB enough to fall for that.

Lab leak my ass,--

"Me political insiders" say It was an attempted coup by the sinister left I tells ya!!!

[Ripmany]

COVID 19 is fake it was just a scare government control. So fact it made came from a lab made up. COVID test contain poison to make a sick person with pammonia sicker I all mess up and took several covid test. All negative.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

Now if the Dems could only figure out a way to insert the virus into a device that only extreme MAGA ppl wear!?? Say something that is made in China, and could have the disease already to go, and then have the recipients not only take and use, but do so gleefully!!?? What kind of adornment would be so universally loved that the DEMs could rely on a steady stream of willing victims to touch and never suspect that it's the way that they secretly keep the Covid ruse going??? What ever could that be???

Of course a lab could make a nefarious device that only right wingers would get and continue to reinfect each other by sharing this mass infection device, and also be visible to the DEMs to stay away from, ...you know since it's a conspiracy and stuff....maybe a hat???!!

Nah...they would never be DUMB enough to fall for that.

Lab leak my ass,--

"Me political insiders" say It was an attempted coup by the sinister left I tells ya!!!

What do you think those surgical masks made in China were for?

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

What do you think those surgical masks made in China were for?

Lol+ Touche sir

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Lol.

Well, I've got a better conspiracy theory. Seeing as both speedy and tsmokies are saying let's move on, there's nothing to see here... that tips me off to the real source!

Covid-19 must have been created & released by the Democrats as a scheme to defeat Donald Trump in 2020! Remember how they started howling early in 2020 about turning the pandemic into "Trump's Katrina"? Well, that's exactly what they did, with help from the MSM. They blew up every trump mis-statement and blamed him personally (instead of China) for every covid death. Covid provided the excuse for the Dems to hide their "Weekend at Bernie's" zombie candidate in a basement in Delaware for most of the campaign, and it enabled them to flood the country with millions of mail-in ballots waiting to be "harvested" by all those Mark Zuckerberg activists!

I mean, why else would speedy and tsmokies be so eager for everyone to move on... that's part of the Dem cover-up plan!


Seriously, where are you on the origin question? If you had $100 to put on a zoonotic versus a lab-leak source, would your bet be 50/50 or what?

When texassapper started this thread I might have put the probability of a lab leak at 60%. After reading your Science article, and a paper the article links to, and searching for "COVID origin lab leak zoonosis" in Google Scholar, I'll revise that to 60% natural origin / 40% lab leak. Looking at the literature, I believe the majority or most people who really know this subject and the science behind it favor the natural origin hypothesis.

Here's an analogy. Say somebody asks me to estimate the relative contribution of Fed policy and Biden's American Rescue Plan to U.S. inflation in 2021. I have to assign a number from one to ten for each choice and the two numbers have to add up to ten.

I could pick something out of the air. Or I could ask you and TC for your guesses and average them. I'd trust your guesses better than my own so I'd go with the average over my guess. Similarly, I'd go with the expert's consensus over my own intuition for zoonotic origin vs. lab leak.

Here's the paper that's linked in your Science article,

https://zenodo.org/records/7754299

They found COVID RNA associated with both human and animal genetic material, providing strong evidence that both infected people and infected animals were at the market. So yes, you could be right that the COVID was transmitted from humans to animals at the market.

The reason this is a potential game changer is because the local Chinese government earlier claimed that the only live animals in markets in Wuhan were fish, reptiles and amphibians. The closest known animal virus to SARS-CoV-2 was from bats several hundred miles away from Wuhan. So the Wuhan virus institute stood out like a sore thumb, as a possible source of the earliest infections. If memory serves me correctly, researchers at the institute had visited and gotten samples from the bat cave in question. The bat virus, however, lacked the furin cleavage site. So there were suspicions of gain-of-function research, prior to a lab leak. Virologists however said that SARS-CoV-2 irrefutably was not derived from any of the virus backbones they were using. The Chinese would have had to go out of their way to mask the genetic manipulation of the bat virus so they weren't leaving a trace. Add the idea that the Chinese military was involved and you've got a full blown conspiracy theory.

Now though we're pretty sure there were animals with COVID at the Wuhan market before January 1, 2021. The wild animals would have come from all over China. And there's a good bit of evidence linking a large number of early human infections, around 25% I think, to the Hunan Seafood Market.

Here are the arguments for a zoonotic origin in the concluding section of the linked paper,

1. A preponderance of the earliest hospitalized COVID-19 patients were linked to a single location, one of just four locations in a city of 11 million people where plausible intermediate hosts of SARS-CoV-2 were sold live. There are hundreds or thousands of other sites that would have been equally or more likely than this wildlife market to have the first-detected and largest cluster of early cases had
the outbreak there not been associated with wildlife sales.

2. The locations of early, severe COVID-19 cases without a clear epidemiological link to the Huanan market nevertheless were so centered on and close to the Huanan market that it is clear that community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 began in this local area and only later expanded across Wuhan, and the rest of the world. Importantly, this includes those infected with lineage A viruses (and not just lineage B), indicating that early community spread of both early lineages of the virus radiated out from the market.

3. The locations of SARS-CoV-2-positive environmental samples in the Huanan market were close to or exactly where susceptible live mammals were sold.

4. The early genetic diversity of SARS-CoV-2 suggests multiple spillovers, and both early lineages, “A” and “B”, were directly observed at the market geographically associated with the market’s location in a way not expected by chance.

5. Live susceptible animals such as raccoon dogs had been reported to be on sale in this market, including during the month (November 2019) when the first human SARS-CoV-2 infection is estimated to have occurred

6. Evidence collected and generated by China CDC and analyzed here shows that genetic material of such potential intermediate hosts was detected in SARS-CoV-2-positive environmental samples.

These arguments stand in stark contrast to the absence of evidence for any other SARS-CoV-2 emergence route.


Lineage A and B refer to two lineages of the virus that were slightly different genetically. Earlier on people were hypothesizing that the two lineages originated at two different markets in Wuhan. The researchers believe both actually originated at the same Wuhan Seafood Market.

One other comment, you brought up the furin cleavage site earlier. Apparently that's not nearly as uncommon as some thought in coronaviruses. See

https://pubs.asahq.org/monitor/artic...searchresult=1

[texassapper]

The Wall Street Journal confirmed independent reports that the earliest outbreak occurred at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in November 2019.

"Patients zero" are now presumed to be three Chinese scientists, including Ben Hu, who worked extensively on gain-of-function research (the manipulation of viruses to make them more dangerous), which was funded by grants from the U.S. government. Those cases occurred in November 2019—well before the Huanan wet market outbreak favored by some in the scientific community as the more likely origin story—and they occurred among the very people one would predict if the virus originated in a lab. This is quite damning, to say the least. Anyone still clinging to an animal origin theory—remember the pangolins and raccoon dogs?—is running up against Occam's razor.

When a source was asked how certain they were that these were the identities of the three WIV scientists who developed symptoms consistent with COVID-19 in the fall of 2019, we were told, “100%”

“Ben Hu is essentially the next Shi Zhengli,” said Alina Chan, a molecular biologist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, and coauthor with Matt Ridley of Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid19. Shi is known as “the bat woman of China,” and led the gain-of-function research at the WIV. “He was her star pupil. He had been making chimeric SARS-like viruses and testing these in humanized mice. If I had to guess who would be doing this risky virus research and most at risk of getting accidentally infected, it would be him.”

[texassapper]

Fauci Now Says the Lab-Leak Hypothesis Isn't a 'Conspiracy Theory'

“After two days of testimony and 14 hours of questioning, many things became evident. During his interview today, Dr. Fauci claimed that the policies and mandates he promoted may unfortunately increase vaccine hesitancy for years to come," Wenstrup said. "He testified that the lab-leak hypothesis — which was often suppressed — was, in fact, not a conspiracy theory. Further, the social distancing recommendations forced on Americans ‘sort of just appeared’ and were likely not based on scientific data."

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by texassapper

Fauci Now Says the Lab-Leak Hypothesis Isn't a 'Conspiracy Theory'

“After two days of testimony and 14 hours of questioning, many things became evident. During his interview today, Dr. Fauci claimed that the policies and mandates he promoted may unfortunately increase vaccine hesitancy for years to come," Wenstrup said. "He testified that the lab-leak hypothesis — which was often suppressed — was, in fact, not a conspiracy theory. Further, the social distancing recommendations forced on Americans ‘sort of just appeared’ and were likely not based on scientific data."

if batman says so






bahahahahahaaaa

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by texassapper

The Wall Street Journal confirmed independent reports that the earliest outbreak occurred at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in November 2019.

"Patients zero" are now presumed to be three Chinese scientists, including Ben Hu, who worked extensively on gain-of-function research (the manipulation of viruses to make them more dangerous), which was funded by grants from the U.S. government. Those cases occurred in November 2019—well before the Huanan wet market outbreak favored by some in the scientific community as the more likely origin story—and they occurred among the very people one would predict if the virus originated in a lab. This is quite damning, to say the least. Anyone still clinging to an animal origin theory—remember the pangolins and raccoon dogs?—is running up against Occam's razor.

See LustyLad's Science link below for the other side.

Originally Posted by lustylad

Yeah, you're right. It appears all 3 worked for the infamous Wuhan "batwoman" Shi Zhengli.

Here are two interesting - and contradictory - news reports from last June:


https://theintercept.com/2023/06/17/...-patient-zero/

https://www.science.org/content/arti...s-patient-zero


Not that it should matter, but the Intercept is considered a left-wing publication. The French researcher you mentioned - Flo Debarre - is quoted in the Science article.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

I was born in 1950. My early childhood was in the middle of the Polio pandemic of tht time. I had a few classmate3s who could only get around with orthopedic crutches and leg braces. They were survivors. Polio is a killer.

When the Sauk vaccine came out, my parents made sure that I got it ASAP. That dose was not the sugar cube many kids got, it ws the shot in the arm . . .that is how quickly they got me set up with it.

I never got Polio. Our kids snd grnd kidsThe pandemic passed. THAT IS A VACCINE.

Smallpox has been irradiated world wide for decades now due to the development of a true vaccine. Many other formerly common diseases are also reduced to irrelevance today for the same reason.

Before going on about how wonderful the Covid shots are . . .and they are good, but not great . . .please read "The Microbe Hunters" It was written in the 1920s I think, , but the book is a valid history of the science of immunization from before Louis Pasture.

Read that, and you will understand what a vaccine is, what it does and how the historically effective vaccines work.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

One in 200 polio infections, or 0.5%, leads to paralysis. And the infection fatality ratio among children is around 0.01% to .025%.

Estimates of infection fatality ratio for COVID-19 in 2020 were 4.8% for 75 year olds, 8% for 80 year olds, and 13% for 85 year olds, from this paper,

https://www.thelancet.com/action/sho...2821%2902867-1

Initially the vaccines were 95% effective in preventing infection, and later on 85% effective in preventing severe disease and death.

Anyway if only about .02% of the kids who contracted polio died, and 5% to 13% of people 75 to 85 who contracted COVID died, then the COVID vaccine had the potential to save a hell of a lot more lives in 2021 than the polio vaccine in 1950, even if the COVID vaccine wasn't 100% effective.

I don't know if it matters so much now. Everyone has at least some immunity from vaccination and infections. The hospitals know how to treat the disease better. We have Paxlovid. COVID may be no more deadly than the flu. There are a lot of people your age who don't get the flu vaccine or COVID boosters. I suspect they'd be wise to, and most doctors would advise them to, but it's not as big a deal as smoking, eating crap all the time, or leading a sedentary life style.

[ICU 812]

"Perfect is the enemy of good", sure that is an esy aphorism. It embraces mediocrity. That the Covid shots support positive health outcomes is a good thing and to be applauded.

My dissatisfaction comes from the claims by health professionals in government that these shots were THE cure while actively suppressing any efforts by health care professionals in the private sector to develop post infection therapies for those already sick.

The ballyhoo over getting everyone to get the shots so families could all get together for July 5th celebrations as President Bidden proclaimed, was a falsehood.

Getting everyone to get the shots so we could develop "herd immunity" was a falsehood proclaimed by the leadership at CVEC.

Changing the official definition of "Vaccine" to match the actual,lower performance of the shots ws Orwellien mendacity.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

You're taking a vaccine for Covid on average every six months, To me that's a regimen.

The first 2 were a single requirement so I count those 2 as 1. About 10-11 months later I had my first booster. About 18 months later I had my second booster. And now, about 18 months after my second booster I will have my 3rd booster.

So on average the boosters have been about 15 months apart.

[Yssup Rider]

Like a flu shot. Changed to attack the variant of the year.

It’s really hard to understand why this is hard to understand.

Unless it’s Bill Gates’s plot to microchip the population.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The first 2 were a single requirement so I count those 2 as 1. About 10-11 months later I had my first booster. About 18 months later I had my second booster. And now, about 18 months after my second booster I will have my 3rd booster.

So on average the boosters have been about 15 months apart.

Are you surprised that you've contracted Covid in the midst of all those shots?