What should the U.S.’s role be?

[I B Hankering]

Five permits were in the pipeline, as I wrote yesterday or day before. Originally it was projected that none would be approved until September or October; then - miracle of miracles - one was granted yesterday. I believe this Libyan thing kinda sped things up. Somebody realized that that light at the end of the tunnel was an oncoming freight train, and they got off their ass and granted the permit.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

discreetgent: Do you believe that some of the policies and actions under GWB that were vilified in the press should escape the same level of ridicule and vilification under BHO?

No; I personally am disappointed that Obama has continued some of the policies I disliked under GWB.

Does that answer your question?

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

discreetgent: Do you believe that some of the policies and actions under GWB that were vilified in the press should escape the same level of ridicule and vilification under BHO?

Jesus fuckin' Christ!! How much easier could they go than they went on Bush. The media did everything but suck his dick. He and his administration lied, and lied, and lied and if the New York Times ever reported on it, you'd never know it. Fuck, Judith Miller and Michael Gordon didn't even get fired for incompetence. They might as well have allowed the God damned Republicans to just write their stories for them.

The period between the twin towers attack and the second or third year of the Iraq war is probably the lowest point in American journalistic history. The performance of the U.S. media was shameful.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/ka.../media_failure

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html

[charlestudor2005]

On top of which, the media allowed its neutrality in reporting to be compromised. When they allowed reporters to be "embedded" with troops, the reporters lost all objective reporting ability. Suddenly, they were "one" with the troops. Objective reporting stopped. They had been compromised. And they became the voice of the administration/military.

[Guest083011]

Let's wrap this thread up. I think we've all "been there, done that" with this thread.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Jesus fuckin' Christ!! How much easier could they go than they went on Bush. The media did everything but suck his dick. He and his administration lied, and lied, and lied and if the New York Times ever reported on it, you'd never know it. Fuck, Judith Miller and Michael Gordon didn't even get fired for incompetence. They might as well have allowed the God damned Republicans to just write their stories for them.

The period between the twin towers attack and the second or third year of the Iraq war is probably the lowest point in American journalistic history. The performance of the U.S. media was shameful.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/ka.../media_failure

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html

PBS with Moyers and Salon? Where's Chuckie to bemoan unbiased sources? What president would NOT get a pass in that timeframe? Sorry, but reporters have been embedded with the troops for decades now. I remember Cronkite and Rather reporting in Vietnam.

Let me ask you: Where was the press to push for evidence of WoMD BEFORE the run up to war? In fact where was the press to push for verification when Clinton and other top Dems touted intelligence reports that the Saddam had WoMD? Anyway, if Saddam had obeyed the UN resolutions and not gotten caught up in the Oil for Food scam, he likely would not have been invaded.

Speaking of shameful, the press treated Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan like they were some types of mother Teresas until they figured out they were nutcases.

[charlestudor2005]

.

Originally Posted by gnadfly

PBS with Moyers and Salon? Where's Chuckie to bemoan unbiased sources? Actually, I consider Moyers to be a pretty even-handed journalist, as I do most of PBS. Salon, not so much, so you have me there. What president would NOT get a pass in that timeframe? Sorry, but reporters have been embedded with the troops for decades now. I remember Cronkite and Rather reporting in Vietnam. Yeah, they reported, but were not embedded:

Let me ask you: Where was the press to push for evidence of WoMD BEFORE the run up to war? Actually, why would they? As we know now, there were NO WMDs. In fact where was the press to push for verification when Clinton and other top Dems touted intelligence reports that the Saddam had WoMD? At that time, there were just "reports." With no way to verify. And, has been subsequently verified, there were NO WMDs. But that occurred only after the war when we had the ability to search. Prior to the war, we didn't have the ability. Anyway, if Saddam had obeyed the UN resolutions and not gotten caught up in the Oil for Food scam, he likely would not have been invaded.

Speaking of shameful, the press treated Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan like they were some types of mother Teresas until they figured out they were nutcases. Well, most people who have lost kids in battle are given some deference when all they are asking for is an explanation. It's obvious you haven't been there. True, she went over the top. But, yesterday the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of a church that went over the top in demonstrating at soldiers' funerals.

[I B Hankering]

Thursday, 3rd March 2011 - 12:37CET
400 US Marines in Greece for Libya deployment

Around 400 US Marines have been dispatched to a US base in Greece ahead of deployment on warships off Libya, an American military spokesman said today.
"The operation is part of forces reposition in the region... with regard to Libya," said Paul Farley, spokesman for the US Souda base on the island of Crete.
He said the troops from North Carolina arrived at the base on Wednesday and would later join two US warships in Mediterranean.
The USS Kearsage and the USS Ponce steamed into the Mediterranean en route to Libya yesterday, the Suez Canal Authority said.
The Kearsage amphibious ready group, with about 800 marines, a fleet of helicopters and medical facilities, could support humanitarian efforts as well as military operations.


http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...ibya-deploymen


Thursday, 3rd March 2011 - 07:45CET
Dutch soldiers captured in Libya as rescue fails

Three Dutch soldiers were taken prisoner at the weekend by armed men during an operation to evacuate civilians from Libya, the Dutch defence ministry said today.
"We confirm it," a navy official told AFP when asked about the capture of three marines reported by Dutch daily De Telegraaf.
The paper said the three marines were captured by armed men loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi while helping with the evacuation from Sirte in northern Libya of two unnamed civilians, one Dutch and another European, in a helicopter.
The marines were attacked after the helicopter landed. The two civilians were handed over by the Libyans to the Dutch embassy and have since left Libya, according to De Telegraaf.
"Intensive diplomatic discussions are underway for the freeing of the prisoners," according to the Dutch defence ministry quoted by ANP news agency.
The marines and the helicopter were based on board the Dutch frigate Tromp. The warship, which was initially to have taken part in an anti-piracy operation off Somalia, headed on February 24 for the Libyan coast.
The failure of the rescue operation and the capture of the Dutch marines were not made public earlier for security reasons, De Telegraaf said.


http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...s-rescue-fails


@ Gnadfly & CT
Journalists were embedded during WWII and their wires were heavily censored. Walter Cronkite landed with the troops via glider during Operation Market Garden. Here's an anecdote.

During Operation Market Garden (September 17–25, 1944) one of the American correspondents ‘attached to the 101st was a United Press reporter named Walter Cronkite, who landed by glider. Cronkite recalls that, “I thought the wheels of a glider were for landing. Imagine my surprise when we skidded along the ground and the wheels came up through the floor. I got another shock. Our helmets, which we all swore were hooked, came flying off on impact and seemed more dangerous than the incoming shells. After landing, I grabbed the first helmet I saw, my trusty musette bag with the Olivetti typewriter inside and began crawling toward the canal which was the rendezvous point. When I looked back, I found half a dozen guys crawling after me. It seems I had grabbed the wrong helmet. The one I wore had two neat stripes down the back indicating I was a lieutenant”’ (216-217).

Ryan, Cornealius. A Bridge Too Far. New York: Popular Library, 1974. pp. 670.


The Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Ernie Pyle reported from all theaters of the war before being killed during the battle for Okinawa. I have never read anything about journalists during the Korean War. I recommend Michael Herr's book Dispatches. Herr was a correspondent reporting from Vietnam for Esquire. Dispatches is a raw, unvarnished look at the Vietnam war from the perspective of a war correspondent, and it shows how much free reign journalists had throughout that war. Cronkite only made a cameo appearance in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive (the Battle of Hue), but it was enough to turn him against the American war effort. I'm guessing Rather's experiences were more similar to Herr's than Cronkite's, but IDK.

Of course, we all know the history of the First Gulf War. The military, acting on the lessons it learned in Vietnam, did not cooperate with reporters. The military eased off excluding reporters for the Second Gulf War, but it controlled access and censored the reporting (ask Geraldo Rivera) much like it did during WWII. It seems that journalists covering the peacekeeping operations in Iraq are happy to stay embedded, especially in the wake of the beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. Most of today’s war correspondents do not venture anywhere without a U.S. military presence nearby.

.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Actually, I consider Moyers to be a pretty even-handed journalist, as I do most of PBS.

PBS unbiased????

Chuck, what color is the sky in your world?

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

But, yesterday the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of a church that went over the top in demonstrating at soldiers' funerals.

I was disappointed in that decision, but I understand where they are coming from -- free speech is a very important right.

Of course, I think it was the wrong approach to go to court. It would have been much more effective & cathartic if the boys father and some of his buddies had just walked over after the services and beat the livin crap out of those yokels. It might have taught them some fucking manners.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

PBS unbiased????

Chuck, what color is the sky in your world?

OK. **Throwing the gauntlet down** Justify your position. [Oh, with something other than "debunking the liberal media-type publications.]

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I was disappointed in that decision, but I understand where they are coming from -- free speech is a very important right.

Of course, I think it was the wrong approach to go to court. It would have been much more effective & cathartic if the boys father and some of his buddies had just walked over after the services and beat the livin crap out of those yokels. It might have taught them some fucking manners.

It affirms the old adage that bad cases make bad law.

I like the newer approach of communities banding together to block access to the idiots. So far, it's been peaceful and effective.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

OK. **Throwing the gauntlet down** Justify your position. [Oh, with something other than "debunking the liberal media-type publications.]

You're kidding right?

Try this for starters: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1971

[I B Hankering]

@ CT
About two years ago, I watched this episode of Bill Moyers’ The Journal: Is Conservatism Dead? featuring Sam Tanenhaus, the author of The Death Of Conservatism (http://video.pbs.org/video/1266848366). I didn’t find it “neutral” or “unbiased.” At no point does Moyer challenge Tanenhaus’s assumptions, but rather seems to, IMO, enjoy what Tanenhaus is saying. Moyer refers to Fox News as a “propaganda network” (as I’d seen him do on other occasions: attacking a rival network is not journalism; again, IMO) and labels Rush Limbaugh a “noise maker” and the leader of the conservative movement. I personally do not listen to Limbaugh, and I certainly do not consider him a leader of anything. He is part of the “chattering class.” In light of the last national election, I wonder how pundits such as Tanenhaus dare to show their face.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Will U.S. attack Qaddafi?

February 24, 2011 4:46 PM
As the U.S. State Department contemplates possible sanctions against Muammar Quaddafi and his government, David Martin reports that an American military strike may be the only way to remove a dictator who has vowed to fight to the death.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7357662n
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GbV4X5R8xk

What should the U.S.’s role be?

given the entitlement of the EU`s sanctioning Gaddaffi`s actions in Lybia,
austrian news just reported that banks in austria have closed all his access to his and his fellows bank accounts he made here. so he will dry out eventually. Its just a matter of time til he fails. I pity the loss of so many civilians - same like in egypt! Oil prices go up. If the US is to attack Gaddaffi they better start now before more blood of innocent people spills.
Unfortunately this is the only decent english article on the matter i could find. Everything else is in german. And since everyone (who has something to hide at least) has their money either in austria or switzerland (due to the very easy access to bank accounts and the anonymity) it will have an important effect.
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...sanctions-list