Who ARE the people who want to eliminate prostitution anyway?

[seductivesarah]

DONT KNOW WHO THEY ARE BUT I REALLY DONT CARE FOR THEIR OPINION I LOVE THE INDUSTRY AND I THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED WITH WHAT I DO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS...MAYBE THEY JUST NEED A GOOD NUT FROM A GOOD PROVIDER

[Sweet Heather]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

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All I gotta say: good luck on eliminating the oldest profession. It ain't going to happen.

Ain't that the truth!! +1

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

That's not surprising. Many men and women here also don't want it legal...I sure as hell don't. It would reduce rates and allow more people to know what you do because you would be forced to get a license to work. Even if it were legal, I would still operate with the same discretion level I do now. I would still require references, and hide my identity. The only thing it would help...not prevent, would be the crimes associated with sex workers. More women would likely come forward in rape and robbery cases, and traffickers would be more out in the open for once.

True, when i was back in europe i was licensed as massage therapist in switzerland. its similar to the states , just you have a better way of managing taxes and a more legitimate way to state your income. Being registered as a prostitute requires you to pay a preset monthly fee of taxes which makes it hard to work when you please, but rather work full time because the taxes are prettty high since they are an estimate and not deducted from your real income. It does not matter how much money you make you pay a set fee of taxes and insurances (most time VERY expensive ones). They do so because they know people cheat them on income taxes and know about how much money you can make in this business. Which makes it hard for part time providers. So for me as a european citizen i used to work in switzerland where you are a massage therapist and state your income based on what you earn .
The only drawback is that not being registered as sexworker makes it kind of tough being screened for STD. Usually in europe sexworkers have to get screened once a week for STDs and once a month for HIV. I consider that pretty safe. For the client and the escorts. Here you never really know.

[NinaBrooke]

As to the point - the philosophically stated one - Who wants prostitution to be illegal anyway. I`d state: everyone of us who is not officially a sexwork activist. Its easy to state that its the "other" and mostly the oh so conservative churches (mormons?) or whoever else wants prostitution illegal or not happening at all.
These people have a name and a face and a political agenda they go for. Which also makes them easy to find as discussion partners. But who wants to have discussions with them if everyone - from the other site - is a "secret" participant in the hobby? If i am conservative, make the rules and no one states something against it, then why would i change something? Most escorts lead a pretty heteronormative and conservative double life and - god beware - the twain shall meet. Or anyone ever finds out about their identity. Which is ok for the ones who are at least honest enough to say: Good i am like that, leading a double life and i do not want this to be open.

But its hard to counter the prudes and calvinists when everyone participating in this hobby is a hypocrite and stating - under a stage name - on how open minded, sex positive and oh so non judgemental they feel they are. While other than that nothing is happening and no one officially risks a face or something. If the minority is silent then she gets bashed. Gay people and polyamorous people did not get recognised because they wrote - secretely - on internet boards . They actively were OUT about themselves and took all the shit that came with that. They EARNED their sex positivism. Nowadays everyone runs around stating how sex positive and open-minded they are when the reality of said people is as painfully narrow minded like the gap between a brick and a dick squeezed underneath it.
There are people out there risking a lot for making stuff happening so i see it as an insult that people who are heteronormative state on how sexpositive they are (just because the sound of the word is cool and gives them hipster street credibility) while others do the bloody work . Its not like having your cake and eating it too, but its like doing actual work to underline the credibility of the gibberish you state. I mean putting words next to each other in a sentence and being able to spell SEXPOSITIVISM is not really being sex positive :-). Its an action. That requires sacrifices. Its more like putting cool and hip words together in a sentence and waiting for the "wow" effect of the captured? audience :-) !

For me the worst enemies for a true change of perspectives in politics (the private is political - even in the post-feminist area it STILL is) are the people who are so full of themselves in their beliefs that they are so openminded - while this openmindedness does not transcend into their real lives and is only in their secretive lives. That is the worst form of hypocrisy ., because these people are so convenient and deluded about themselves that they do not even see how much they cater to the usual oppression of sexworkers or other minorities in society, because they are too dumb and full of themselves to see where the actual problem is and how much they are involved in keeping it a PROBLEM ;-).
I have full respect for people who see where the problem is but decide to still be heteronormative or cater to the normative morals. But the people who brag about being openminded and think they are, because they snobbishly shake heads about the conservatives out there (and truly believing they are different to those), are a betrayal of the worst sort for anyone that really works hard to be sexpositive AND carries that attitude outside. I try very hard to do so and it makes me angry and pissed off to hear people stating they are sex positive and non judgemental towards escorting when in reality they cater to the same double standards like the ones who officially - and honestly - state that they do not intend to change the status quo.

So - back to the question. Who wants prostitution to be eliminated? I assume everyone who does not stand up actively to proof a point agains the conservative majority.Because to make a point you have to crawl out of your hole and show your face! Just posting stuff like this on the internet and blaming everyone else for being conservative is not going to change anything at all. And the worst people are the ones who think the other ones are conservative and its NOT them who needs change. But i know many people who claim to be open minded and who live a double standard life . And pretend to be pro-sex but still lie to everyone about being escorts or having lovers or being not monogamous. Aaaargh..So i honestly prefer to have a discussion with people who are openly against legalization or with people who say "yes i am living a double life and no i am not actively sex positive" because they actually are aware of the status quo . But people who claim to be openminded (secretely with their clients/escorts that is - hahaha) AND cater officially to the usual conservative majority are like snakes with split tongue. These are the worst enemies of progress in my part because they do not even see that progress is needed and feel so content anyway without moving a finger or letting others do the dirty work. I have deep respect for all people out there who show a face, risk something and really do sex positive work and stuff like that - Veronica Monet and a few others are one of them. So its not such an easy point to say "woohoo who are the bad ones that are such rigid tight asses" when in fact we all (some more , some less) are. I mean if all escorts gather together and make revolution it would be a matter of a year and things would change (there was something like 1968 too, right??).

But unfortunately most people in these work branches do support the heteronormative plain vanilla approach towards sex with their secrecy and doublestandards.
Nothing wrong with that, but don`t bash me for saying so. I prefer anyone who is honest then the people who are delusional about themselves or hypocrites. I mean you can`t be open minded and non judgemental and sex positive BUT have a secret life that contains exactly these said areas. How does that work then? Usually when you work in a bank you also state so :-). No banker hides his job because in reality he feels ashamed of it. But said questions is a pretty simple one to answer IF we were able to reflect on our own behaviour :-) meeeeooooooowwwwwwwwwww.......

[MrGiz]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

This is a pretty prudish country. You can chalk that up to one of the bases that created the country: freedom of religion. And we have been inhabited by the most conservative of Christian elements.

There is no one answer to your question. I think it's very complicated, but has it's genesis in the country's history.

All I gotta say: good luck on eliminating the oldest profession. It ain't going to happen.

Charlie , if you think we hobbyists have it so rough here in a country "inhabited by the most conservative of Christian elements ". . . . perhaps you should try searching for a playmate in a country "controlled by the most radical of Islamic elements " !!

just sayin...

Giz

[coven]

Originally Posted by seductivesarah

DONT KNOW WHO THEY ARE BUT I REALLY DONT CARE FOR THEIR OPINION I LOVE THE INDUSTRY AND I THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED WITH WHAT I DO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS...MAYBE THEY JUST NEED A GOOD NUT FROM A GOOD PROVIDER

I agree with Sarah, we need to get the government out of our bedrooms.

But Sarah, I think lots of them get lots of nuts from good providers.

Just sayin'

[Guest052611]

MHO, I dont see it as a true moral issue anymore as far as legality. I see the issue being one of those key issues that will always be on the table for striking popularity, and more importantly, votes. Like drugs, and taxes.
When politicians are up for discussion, there is always a key subject that is targeted to draw the limelight. Every person in law enforcement looking for that next promotion is looking for that key subject to gain the limelight. Once their goal is reached, they will let that subject go to be handled by the next person to use for their end means.

[MyKindaParty]

It was legal and wide open in the U S until prohibition began. I can't think of the woman's name who started the movement to ban alcohol. When she got the movement going it indirectly took out brothels because alcohol was served in all of them. Though prohibition was repealed, once the brothels took a shot from it some decided to keep it that way. It did not become illegal in the state of MS until 1946.

It isn't just the church that supports it. The mob supported prohibition because whiskey profits skyrocketed. Pimps, if I may use that word, also supported making prostitution illegal. Today in CA the people who grow the pot support the church in keeping it illegal there or in any state. Why? There are two way's to make the most money. Own something to sell that only you have or make it illegal. When it's illegal is has a lot more value. Therefore those who make money from it will join those who hate it to keep it that way.

Independent providers might love the fact of legal for less money verses the headache. Agencies only the other had will most likely fight tooth and nail to keep there profits up and it illegal.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by MyKindaParty

Pimps, if I may use that word, also supported making prostitution illegal.

Independent providers might love the fact of legal for less money verses the headache. Agencies only the other had will most likely fight tooth and nail to keep there profits up and it illegal.

Only partially right. Pimps (if i may use the word) profit highly from the legality of the buz in europe since it is almost impossible (except for switzerland) to make REALLY much money without workin in brothels, studios , massage parlours, since the advertising is so expensive and made for studio owners rather than for independents.

I`d stop short of saying that agency owner profit from the buz being illegal, because they are the ones facing the most charges if caught (MiamiCompanions and those super high agencies once were in NYC-elite or how they were called). so it all has pros and cons.
As far to value and rates:
its the people participating in the buz that harm themselves the most. In europe prices drop constantly because the eastern europeans make the market dull with offering anything for a much lower rate. It happens here too. Its much less easy to control here, because how do you tell a provider (who is not allowed selling sex for money) that CIM and ANAL is not included for 300 an hour??
Its a way of marketing and business. Not a way of legality. Years before the internet market was there was no possibility of any escort being available for less than 600 an hour. Now - the ones that want 600 an hour are hardly worth it and the ones that don`t are the ones that earlier charged more. The issues of legality aare important as in how tax money is to be handled or when it comes to safety for the providers - not so much on how expensive the value is because its illegal.
Even drugs are the least expensive where they are the most illegal. It does not change facts. Being illegal does not make the value increase , since the value decreases everyday by being down valued by too many dilletants in this hobby :-) sorry sorry sorry just my five cents.
Those dilletants include women offering EVERYTHING (and no condom sex) for no money, women dating clients for free (or to get a job in their office ) and many different lack of standards.
In europe there are at least certain standards as in what to charge for what kind of business.
If you dont keep them up you have problems of unfair competition. Here you dont.
So - its not that easy.

[MyKindaParty]

Nina

Thanks for your comments and never be sorry for putting in your five cents worth. I could only give an opinion and assumed similarities.

I do differ only the value of illegal drugs or alcohol though. The prices went up during prohibition due to an 11% increase in consumption and alcohol related arrest doubled. That simply is determined by supply and demand. It could go up or down. The word I should have used was profit. In today prices and person who sells a gallon of illegal liquor makes about $45 dollars profit. The legal gallon about $10 due to the taxes. This was my point with Cali. Legal with taxes could have a huge effect on profit. The money can be cleaned up in much lower tax brackets.

[MyKindaParty]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

Its a way of marketing and business. Not a way of legality. Years before the internet market was there was no possibility of any escort being available for less than 600 an hour. Now - the ones that want 600 an hour are hardly worth it and the ones that don`t are the ones that earlier charged more. The issues of legality aare important as in how tax money is to be handled or when it comes to safety for the providers - not so much on how expensive the value is because its illegal.

Sorry I couldn't finish in one post but your statement here is what I mean about legal being less value many times. Supply and demand is what sets prices. As you said the internet lowered prices. I would think this is because supply went up since the choices and ability to find them went up. Likewise if the profession were legal how many more providers might there be if they didn't have to face legal consequences? This is a question that can only be answered for sure by legalizing it.

George Washington and another politician who's name escapes me made a living bootlegging prior to the Revolution. When the war was over they were out of business. What was the first thing they did to help pay the war bill. Taxed whiskey. Win Win.