The glory days of the HDH are over.

[Laurentius]

Wow@Sydneyb & Camille! Great thoughts!

This is like I have expressed earlier, a guy with $1B in the bank isn't going to stop seeing HDHs just because the value of his portfolio (on paper) fell to $750M. Pretend a guy with $1B whose investments are doing well so he has $100M in interest he can use to play around with HDHs. (I know I am vastly oversimplifying this aspect.)

Pretend a lady who charges $4k for a 4 hr minimum and she gives no price breaks for extended dates. There are 168 hours in a week and 52 weeks in a year. So to book her for every breathing moment without rest is $8.7M. Compared to the guy's $100M in /spare change/ that 8.7M is nothing.

MOST guys who plunk down $4k for a date are not just guys in the top 5% of earners. The threshold for that is 154k, which after taxes wouldn't be enough. The threshold for being in the top 1% is a tad over $250k. Again, after taxes, that wouldn't be enough.

When you are talking about people who plunk down $4k for a date; you are generally talking about folks with a degree of self-sustaining wealth that makes them largely impervious to market forces. I would estimate that most of them have a net worth exceeding $20M.

In that realm, a great many are able to use the opportunities presented by a crappy market to become even more wealthy. While I do it on a smaller scale (because my net worth is definitely less than $20M!), by careful analysis of what products to create/sell and what stocks to buy based upon various trends, my wealth has increased. Well, I have to guess that if I can figure out how to do it, even if a seriously wealthy guy can't figure it out himself, he can at least afford to pay someone to figure it out for him.

----

But now I'd like to give some alternative thoughts.

I'm not sure I buy the idea that increased price necessarily creates a decline in volume beyond a certain point.

By all means, as the price goes from 100 to 200 to 400 to 1600 to 15,000 ... at some point you will make progressively larger proportions of the male population unable to afford the service. Which at first glance may seem to indicate smaller volume. But let's look again.

We have already established that the primary (not all, but primary) clients of HDHs are men so incredibly wealthy that compared to them the top 1% of earners are quite destitute. Their wealth is at a level where it is self-regenerating and sustaining, and can even increase during hard times.

How many true (>2k) HDHs are out there? There is no way of knowing with certainty, but I would guess (based upon analysis of rates on TER) that fewer than 0.1% of providers charge $2k or more as a minimum cost per visit. Given independent estimates of the provider population at 1M nationwide; that would yield 1000. So if I estimated 2,000, that would be extremely generous.

Meanwhile, there are 3 million millionaires in just the U.S., 35,000 guys with a net worth over $20M, and somewhere between 500 and 1000 billionaires. JUST in the U.S.

Women from the U.S. are coveted worldwide; by Japanese executives, oil sheiks and descendants of royalty along with those with vast inherited wealth. This isn't the 1800's. A wealthy man in Zurich, Kuwait or Tokyo can hop on his jet and be here in less than a day; or pay his lady to come to him.

True HDHs are a worldwide market. The number of true HDHs, even if I were insanely generous and said there were 10,000, is TINY compared to the number of men with the access to funds to buy their services.

Thus, price alone is NOT a factor limiting the volume of an HDH.

Let me tell you what I think is the limiting factor: sympathy group.

Every person has a limit to the number of people about whom s/he can care deeply. That limit is built into the human brain at about 15, but it is less than that for most people.

The limiting factor of the true HDH as Camille described it is NOT her price. Rather it is the TYPE of service she provides. The type of service she provides essentially entails her clients becoming a part of her sympathy group. When it is considered that a provider may have parents, offspring, close personal friends, etc. -- there are not 15 slots available. At best, and this is a total maximum, there are 8. Likely there are fewer.

So an HDH by the very nature of the service she offers simply does not have the human bandwidth, at any price, to provide that service to 30 people in a year. She can't. It would reach beyond her human capacities.

She picks and maintains her clients, adds new ones as old ones leave, but likely has no more than 8 active clients at any given time; many of which she has maintained for years.

Her pricing schedule is not set the way it is from my point of view to limit her clients; but rather so that she gets enough money from her active clients to maintain her lifestyle, whatever that may be.

BTW, she often selects her clients based on mutual chemistry and stuff. She doesn't need to fake orgasms.

If all a provider wanted to do was limit her clients, she could impose tons of criteria other than income. For example, I once placed a personal ad and was inundated by responses from women who I didn't want to see. I had made the mistake of noting that I owned a couple of businesses, which is of course disproportionately attractive to certain women.

So I said "You must either have a Mensa card, library card or an advanced degree. Bonus if you have all three." Wham -- responses fell dramatically but there were still too many. So I weeded out the scaredy cats: "I am a former mercenary and still occasionally take jobs." You could practically hear the door slam. Down to just a couple of responses a week. Perfect.

------

Now some other thoughts.

I was looking at Camille's description and, except for the price, this describes almost exactly the situation I have with one provider:

"To cultivate a reassuring (and therefore relaxing) experience it was often grounded in reality. These women would often share a high degree of personal information about themselves (that went far beyond just their real names) and would even introduce their friends to these men and sometimes family. ... Most men at that level are not seeing multiple women nor do they have a desire to ditch and switch because boundaries are not clearly defined."

Camille noted as well that "Most women at that level ... expect some degree of inflated income for the higher than would be normal access into their very real lives."

I have discovered that there is such a thing as a provider who delivers this without the high (monetary) price tag.

It is called "A provider who is also a true friend."

There IS a very high non-monetary price attached: you have to be every bit as good of a friend in return. That isn't always easy because it doesn't mean just being a friend when she's naked. It means a lot of other things as well and being understanding of her humanity. It means getting paged at 3am because she is sick.

When you see a woman within that context, you can pretty much kiss the 60-minute fantasy thing goodbye. You are dealing with reality and it is a relationship. Polygamous or polyamorous, but a relationship nevertheless.

And unlike with the more casual once-n-done sort of thing; because the woman is in your sympathy group, she has the capacity to hurt you emotionally -- and because you are in her sympathy group, you have the capacity to hurt her too. In some respects it is only a hair away from having a wife.

You know it is only a hair away from having a wife when she asks "Does this skirt make my ass look fat?" and you have some initial conflict about your answer if it does. LOL

[Guest083011]

This reminds me: I gotta go buy a coupla Power Ball tickets.

Nice post Laurentius, esp about the 15 within a person's sympathy circle.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Becky

I have the swine flew.

Is this like...when pigs fly???

[charlestudor2005]

Every person has a limit to the number of people about whom s/he can care deeply. That limit is built into the human brain at about 15, but it is less than that for most people.

Never heard this before, but it makes sense. And, it's an interesting observation. Just between and my SO, my limit is about 2-4, while the SO's is around 15 IMHO.

[Lovely Victoria]

I confess, I didn't read the entire 20+ pages here, but I think I skimmed through the most. Here are my 2 cents:

Most of my clients are comfortable, but not exactly filthy rich. They are comfortable enough that a few thousand here to there is trivial. And I suspect most of the incidental expenses (hotels, meals, entertainments, etc) get buried somewhere in their expense vouchers.

I can only speak for myself, but as Laurentius described, I am trying to limit the potential client population through the mechanism of the higher price. I see this model (actually, it's more of a preference than a model) as being advantageous from strictly safety and health perspective (again, only speaking for myself). To me this model implies that while money is a part of it, it is a lifestyle that is adopted by choice and not driven by necessity.

I also agree about the sympathy factor. I have a handful of gentleman friends and I am in constant/ regular contact with each of them. In fact, I speak to and/or exchange e-mail/ text everyday (you read it right, every single day) with my patron saint. Just this evening, I must have gotten a dozen texts from him venting about his work and whatnots. (Which is why it's taken me about 2 hours to compose this post and I no longer remember what the point of this post was.)

I must disagree that being in this sympathy group makes the woman a hair away from being a wife. I'm mostly on my best behavior when I'm with a client, whether he's a new client or a long time patron. I try to maintain the "honeymoon" period that Lauren aptly described.

OK, that's enough rambling..

xo

[Laurentius]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Never heard this before, but it makes sense. And, it's an interesting observation. Just between and my SO, my limit is about 2-4, while the SO's is around 15 IMHO.

Gladwell elaborates on this a bit in "The tipping point."

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

Gladwell elaborates on this a bit in "The tipping point."

At least it's available in Kindle edition.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

Gladwell elaborates on this a bit in "The tipping point."

There you go WTF, you got a new bestest buddy for your Gladwell fan club

[Camille]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

How many true (>2k) HDHs are out there? There is no way of knowing with certainty, but I would guess (based upon analysis of rates on TER)

I have discovered that there is such a thing as a provider who delivers this without the high (monetary) price tag.

It is called "A provider who is also a true friend."

Two quick counters to these points.

1) The HDH ladies I talk of don't have any affiliation with TER. They don't post and there are no reviews...so trying to correlate data from there isn't really accurate..from the POV of *my* original interpretation of an HDH. Like I said before though, my opinion is just mine..it's by no means an absolute..but it's the one I am drawing from lol.

2) "The provider who is a true friend"

Now here is the difference. At the big bucks end of things the genuine friendship is, a not necessarily stated, but always silently implied, and understood, as a real goal to aim towards. Again, it cuts through the "will she/won't she want this?" and cuts right to it straight off the bat. That is why the longer dates from day 1 are so acceptable. It's also why these ladies do not offer same day dates...they are assessing the potential for such a connection. The "courting" begins long before the meeting.

At the "other" end of things it's a wonderful bonus if you find such a friendship and if you are lucky, something that may evolve over time. There is a rather large difference between the two. I am extremely fickle about who I allow to be close to me in any aspect of my life because I don't draw veils over segments of my life and am therefore extremely forthcoming when you are in that circle. For myself, that "unspoken understanding" was something I found difficult to reconcile at that level. I have found myself much more content taking the low expectation/high bonus route....it works better for me. Of course the flip side of that is I see more men than an HDH...but it's a side effect I am happy and willing to accept. Do I have clients who are good friends? One or two yes.

C x

[burkalini]

My experience is sometimes having a regular provider can be a detriment. Just as with a regular partner the sex can (not always) get a little less powerful as the meetings go on. I have seen alot of touring providers that ususally only end up in one or maybe two meetings and they were fantastic. I do think the touring ladies depend on a good rep and perform well. If they don't they usually just change their names LOL google time

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by burkalini

My experience is sometimes having a regular provider can be a detriment. Just as with a regular partner the sex can (not always) get a little less powerful as the meetings go

It takes two to tango.

I have had the sex get phenomenally better over the course of several years, and I've had it dwindle to a disappointment as well. The deciding factor was how much we shared new experiences outside the bedroom, how much he allowed bonding to evolve over time, and whether or not they allowed me to forget a gift was involved.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

...how much he allowed bonding to evolve over time...

Is that like more & more ropes?

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Is that like more & more ropes?

Ideally, yes!

I have a lovely collection of soft rope, it would be a shame for it to go to waste just hanging in my bedroom

[Katy Alexander]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Is this like...when pigs fly???

Originally Posted by SR Only

Your his sugar bitch.

Oh sure go ahead, and pick on the sick person.

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

I'm curios Becky. Obviously, ED is a high point in you life. So, he can't have been named on just a whim.

So, who was/is "ED"?

Actually this may be a bit anticlimatic, but Edward was named after Eddy Munster due to the widows peak on his forehead.He went from Eddy to Edward as he grew more distinguished over time.

His other names are Edison,Babybird,Buttercup,Fire ball,Sweet potato, Sunshine etc etc

[Katy Alexander]

This point may have already been brought up, but from what I have noticed in the area where I live it really seems to be the escorts with the average hourly rate who have been hit the hardest with the bad economy.With so much undercutting going on the average rate has been dragged down to such a low level that it is this particular group of escorts that I could see decreasing in number if the bad economy continues much longer. People seem to forget that what we do does come with a certain amount of risk to our safety as well as sacrifice when it comes to our personal relationships.With the average rate dropping so low many women will decide to move on to other options as long as there are other options available to them.