Illegal immigration...your thoughts

[onehitwonder]

First of let me say I am not a politcal person, period. Don't understand the legal mumbo jumbo. I am not "book smart" However, I know right from wrong. I am not above helping others no matter where they come from or the color of their skin. BUT, I need to make sure my house is in order first. It's just that simple. I have 2 grown girls. Had a job (mostly min wage) since I was 16 and have never ever been without a job for more than 2 wks at a time. I have never cashed a welfare check in my life. I now have my 16 mon old grand daughter with me. When things started to go bad, (2 mons ago) after the incident in above post my 73 yr old mom told me "go ask for help" She tells me they took money out of our checks for 50 yrs, just for this reason etc. She and my dad worked in factorys forever. She tells me "they'll be glad to help someone who worked and now has a baby to look after" Bull shit! I've never felt so trifflin' in my life. I was humiliated, shamed, embarrassed, and questioned like I stole something! The girl asked me if my grandbaby was "mixed" and if so I'd have a better chance of receiving full benefits. Left there with a one time grant of $149.00 food stamps and my pride shoved deep down in my hip pocket. Most everyone I talked to in the waiting room,(all persons of color) because I had no idea what I was doing or what to expect, told me they received $300-$600 a mon in food stamps and also money ...........EVERY MONTH. WTF?

[Dagny D.E.W.]

Originally Posted by CLoner

Where did you read or hear about that? I'm speaking about the "U.S. taxpayer will pay for the health insurance for each and everyone of them" part. Just curious about your source.

I have only time to read page 1 and there is so much here but this one needs to be addressed.

I read the health care bill. Once Congress gives the illegals amnesty they will now be legal citizens and will be covered under the Health care bill passed last year.

2 other things, this country was built on LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. this discussion is about ILLEGAL immigrants.

The reason no one will stop the ILLEGAL is because
the republicans want cheap labor (I would rather pay 25./per head of lettuce)
and the democrats want voters. (after amnesty they will ALL vote democrat. And we are talking about 20-25 million illegals and amnesty will allow them to bring 4-5 people in their family with each of them.)

[PoetMeister]

Originally Posted by onehitwonder

First of let me say I am not a politcal person, period. Don't understand the legal mumbo jumbo. I am not "book smart" However, I know right from wrong. I am not above helping others no matter where they come from or the color of their skin. BUT, I need to make sure my house is in order first. It's just that simple. I have 2 grown girls. Had a job (mostly min wage) since I was 16 and have never ever been without a job for more than 2 wks at a time. I have never cashed a welfare check in my life. I now have my 16 mon old grand daughter with me. When things started to go bad, (2 mons ago) after the incident in above post my 73 yr old mom told me "go ask for help" She tells me they took money out of our checks for 50 yrs, just for this reason etc. She and my dad worked in factorys forever. She tells me "they'll be glad to help someone who worked and now has a baby to look after" Bull shit! I've never felt so trifflin' in my life. I was humiliated, shamed, embarrassed, and questioned like I stole something! The girl asked me if my grandbaby was "mixed" and if so I'd have a better chance of receiving full benefits. Left there with a one time grant of $149.00 food stamps and my pride shoved deep down in my hip pocket. Most everyone I talked to in the waiting room,(all persons of color) because I had no idea what I was doing or what to expect, told me they received $300-$600 a mon in food stamps and also money ...........EVERY MONTH. WTF?

I'm sorry to hear that and for the record you sound honorable and responsible to me.

Someone who is in your current situation is what the entitlement programs were meant to aid. Note I say in your situation because absolutely anyone could fall into a similar situation.

Unfortunately there are a large number of people today who have no honor or sense of responsibility and game the system every day. We have families where 3 generations are literally living off of welfare and have grown in some odd way feel they deserve it even though they've never added back into the system.

You are clearly not that type of person so don't feel bad at all for asking/needing a helping hand up.

[ck1942]

Originally Posted by fatenchilada

Why is this country the only one in the world which extends automatic citizenship to anyone born here? No other country permits this pernicous practice of anchor babies.

Not sure if the following is still current, but it was current 2 years ago.

For those who speak no Latin: jus soli (law of ground), also known as birthright citizenship, is a right by which nationality or citizenship can be recognized to any individual born in the territory of the related state.

States and territories that observe jus soli include:

* American Samoa (birth in American Samoa renders American Samoan and U.S. nationalities, but no birthright to U.S. citizenship)
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Argentina
* Azerbaijan
* Barbados
* Belize
* Bolivia
* Brazil
* Canada
* Chile (children of transient foreigners or of foreign diplomats on assignment in Chile only upon request)
* Colombia
* Dominica
* Dominican Republic
* Ecuador
* El Salvador
* Fiji[6]
* Grenada
* Guatemala
* Guyana
* Honduras
* Jamaica
* Lesotho
* Mexico
* Nicaragua
* Pakistan
* Panama
* Paraguay
* Peru
* Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic
* Saint Christopher and Nevis
* Saint Lucia
* Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
* United States
* Uruguay
* Venezuela

In a number of countries, the automatic application of jus soli has been modified to impose some additional requirements for children of foreign parents, such as the parent being a permanent resident or having lived in the country for a period of time. Jus soli has been modified in the following countries:

* United Kingdom on 1 January 1983
* Australia on 20 August 1986
* Republic of Ireland on 1 January 2005
* New Zealand on 1 January 2006
* France also operates a modified form of jus soli

German nationality law was changed on 1 January 2000 to introduce a modified concept of jus soli. Prior to that date, German nationality law was based entirely on jus sanguinis

[guest070811-2]

(I would rather pay 25./per head of lettuce)

Yes I would too.

[onehitwonder]

Originally Posted by PoetMeister

I'm sorry to hear that and for the record you sound honorable and responsible to me.

Someone who is in your current situation is what the entitlement programs were meant to aid. Note I say in your situation because absolutely anyone could fall into a similar situation.

Unfortunately there are a large number of people today who have no honor or sense of responsibility and game the system every day. We have families where 3 generations are literally living off of welfare and have grown in some odd way feel they deserve it even though they've never added back into the system.

You are clearly not that type of person so don't feel bad at all for asking/needing a helping hand up.

Thank you for your kind remarks.



I did not feel bad about asking for help UNTIL I did. It was a humiliating experience. People were pulling up in Cadillacs and had jewelry on that would choak a horse. Yes I suppose a sign of entitlement. I can complain all day long but I'm still in the same perdiciment(sp?) NO ASSISTANCE. None. I was even chastised for bring my grandbaby to a job search class and ask to leave. Hindsite is 20/20 I guess . Alot of us are a paycheck away from being homeless. So it seems my last/only option is move back east where family is. I love Texas, just wish it would love me back

[guest070811-2]

"I thought we were an English speaking nation." Rrrabit

You had my ass rolling with this one for about 20 min.

Really? Come on now.

What did you think was gonna happen after the Spanish American War, and the Mexican American War, that Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who became citizens would stop speaking Spanish?

Mexican Americans have a long history long before the "Nation" was even formed. When the U.S. annexed Texas and ceded Cali, most of Arizona, and New Mexico in exchange for the 15 mil, the U.S in turn granted Citizenship and guranteed Mexicans religious freedom, property rights, and cultural integrity such as traditions, and the use of the SPANISH language.

And as far as Puerto Ricans the U.S. should have thought about the affects before they seized the land in 1898 knowing they were an only spanish speaking island.

[Rand Al'Thor]

Originally Posted by rrrabbit

I thought we were an English speaking nation. It never ceases to amaze me how many government forms are also published in Spanish.

This isn't actually an English speaking nation, not by law. US has no official language.

On the other hand, each state is free to designate one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vj0OH-6FvA

[Dagny D.E.W.]

Originally Posted by VictoriaLyn

About the 14th Amendment

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

This was the other point I wanted to make when reading the 1st post and didn't have time yesterday but please go back and read Vickylyn's entire post. It is GOLD for this point.

An illegal is not under the jurisdiction and her child born in the US should NOT be considered a US citizen unless the other parent is a US citizen.

If we read the Consititution it seems to always have the answers to the problems we face.

I just wish my US representative knew the Constitution as well as VickyLyn!!!!!!

[alex64]

I came to this country as an "Illegal " from Mexico and gained my citizenship 20 something years ago. I have never depended on the goverment's help to make a decent life in this beautiful country. I have worked hard and long hours for many years to get to the point where now I have my own business and employ 45+ people ( all legal), every year I pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes and I do it with pride for the honor of living here.
Most of you guys do not know what you are talking about when it comes to this topic ( except for Nuglett and Gia and Nadia ).
This topic about " Illegals " is more about race than you think, even if you deny it, it is what it is, I do not hear anybody complaining about " Illegal" Canadians or Europeans so why you guys just dont say it " You do not like Hispanic, latino people". " Illegals" pay taxes when they buy something, they pay taxes when they buy a house, and all the federal or income taxes taken out of their checks they will never be able to collect when they retire and that 's a lot of money that will fund "your" retirement.
So what the hell, why are you guys so concern about talking about
" Illegals" when this board is about something we do " Illegaly"
and that makes everybody here " Illegal".
"He dicho"

[nuglet]

Alex;
I know it's hard to ignore ignorance sometimes, but some folks are more bigoted or racist that they would ever admit. Glad you're here dude!

[alex64]

Yeah next time you guys call one of the Ladies, please, please ask for proof of citizenship or legal status, you do not want to get involved with somebody doing something" Illegal" .

[Carl]

Originally Posted by alex64

" Illegals" pay taxes when they buy something, they pay taxes when they buy a house, and all the federal or income taxes taken out of their checks they will never be able to collect when they retire and that 's a lot of money that will fund "your" retirement.
So what the hell, why are you guys so concern about talking about
" Illegals" when this board is about something we do " Illegaly"
and that makes everybody here " Illegal".
"He dicho"

You make some very good points when it comes to the hidden taxes everybody, including illegal immigrants, pay. And while not all illegal immigrants buy houses, they all live somewhere, usually paying rent to live in housing that is often substandard by most renter's preferences. And those rents allow the property owners to pay property taxes on those substandard units.

And you bring up a point about what is termed "no-match" by the Social Security Administration. Many illegal aliens do have valid SSN's by which they work. But those numbers were never issued to them. They are the valid SSNs issued to someone else that is a natural or naturalized citizen.
http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/nomatch2.htm

There have been efforts to correct these no-match instances since the Reagan administration. Even recently, the current administration has vowed to get to the bottom of this problem as a way to curtail illegal immigration. But there has never been any vigorous enforcement of laws and regulations requiring employers to correct what would seem to be multiple invalid users of a single valid SSN. And the reason why that has never occurred and likely never will occur is precisely for the reason you state: Those paychecks provide billions of dollars each week into the SS/Medicare and IRS withholding tax accounts that the illegal immigrant payers will never, ever, recover. They're never going to file a tax return on those wages, they're never going to apply or qualify for SS disability or retirement benefits on those wages.

In an ironic twist for those that complain about how illegals get government services without paying taxes, the withholding and SS/Medicare taxes illegals pay into the system actually help keep those systems afloat. It's arguable that they are just getting back what they've payed into the system but in a fashion that defies the proper attribution and tabulation of their contributions payed into the federal system versus benefits received.

It may well be that on balance they pay more into the system than they ever get out of it. I suspect that is very well the case, because if the federal government thought that they were getting the short end of the stick on money coming in versus money going out to illegal immigrants, the SSN "no-match" issue would probably have been dealt with back in the Reagan years. But the government (in a rare true bipartisan fashion) talks a big deal about it every so often for the media's benefit and then turns a willful blind eye.

[onehitwonder]

Again, there is no way for me participate in this discussion at this point. Trust me I'm not equiped! I'm out of my league, and I know this.

So, I'll stay over here out of the way and try to keep up! LOL


Now, that being said, my issue was why was I not eligible for help in the country I was born in? I was the only caucasion in the building at the time and was made fully aware of it. And I know lots of white folks are getting assistance. (I may be missing a formal education but I'm not SLOW.) But I can't help to think that I may have had a better chance to get help if we were not taking care of everyone else.

Dear Alex,
I'm not in the least bit racist. OMG. Really? If you read my first post before this thread got WAY OVER MY HEAD I lost my job and was denied 4 interviews SIMPLY because I did'nt speak spanish in my own country. I was dumbfounded. I hope you do not really believe that about me. I would hate that. BTW my grandbaby, the one I'm struggling to take care of.... is mixed..............

[PoetMeister]

Originally Posted by alex64

I came to this country as an "Illegal " from Mexico and gained my citizenship 20 something years ago. I have never depended on the goverment's help to make a decent life in this beautiful country. I have worked hard and long hours for many years to get to the point where now I have my own business and employ 45+ people ( all legal), every year I pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes and I do it with pride for the honor of living here.
Most of you guys do not know what you are talking about when it comes to this topic ( except for Nuglett and Gia and Nadia ).
This topic about " Illegals " is more about race than you think, even if you deny it, it is what it is, I do not hear anybody complaining about " Illegal" Canadians or Europeans so why you guys just dont say it " You do not like Hispanic, latino people". " Illegals" pay taxes when they buy something, they pay taxes when they buy a house, and all the federal or income taxes taken out of their checks they will never be able to collect when they retire and that 's a lot of money that will fund "your" retirement.
So what the hell, why are you guys so concern about talking about
" Illegals" when this board is about something we do " Illegaly"
and that makes everybody here " Illegal".
"He dicho"

Sorry Alex but the race card is the most OVERPLAYED card in the past decade. I haven't read each post closely but I don't recall seeing anyone spewing hate speech against Latinio's. If they did that would be wrong.

I'm a big fan of all men/women are created equal. To be honest to be a white caucasian in the US is probably the least privlaged you could be in this day and age. There are tons of programs to assist just about anyone EXCLUDING a caucasian male..so i'd say there's plenty of racial discrimination right there...i'm for equality..that means EQUAL to all.

But as usual this discussion point is again away from the actual issue at hand. Here is a site that has some decent points on the actual problems we have due to illegal immigration..i don't care what boarder you enter on or what race you are: http://one-simple-idea.com/BorderSecurity.htm
Some highlights:
o burden on hospital systems; 84 hospitals closed/closing in California
o 70% of women giving birth at Parkland Memorial hospital in Dallas,TX in only the first 3 months of year 2006 were illegal aliens; same thing for this Florida hospital; border states are hit hardest, but it's happening in all 50 states in the U.S.!
o burden on welfare systems; over 32% of illegal aliens receive welfare (often for their children born in U.S. hospitals at U.S. tax payers expense);

Arizona has become 2nd in the world for kidnapping. 2nd in the WORLD! Granted this is due to drug trafficing of illegals but it's a very serious problem. Yes a lot of the ppl are Latino's who are being kidnapped but again....I don't care what race you are..this is a SERIOUS problem!

All of these are serious problems.

While we're on the subject have you looked at the immigration policies for Mexico? They happen to be a great deal more restrictive then the US and quite hypocrytical.
http://vivirlatino.com/2006/06/02/me...pocritical.php

You're a tax paying citizen now?...great! You're a contributor no problem.

To finish I want to be clear by saying I don't think if you're an illegal alien you're a bad person...that's not a good way to look at this problem. There are plenty of ppl that are looking for a better way of life as would anyone. Unfotunately there a lot of drug dealers, terrorists and many others that fall into this category and we need to be diligent about prevention when it comes to this.

Politicians are playing games with the citizens of the US and whatever other pawns they can muster and those who are here illegally fall into a group as well. If our politicians REALLY wanted to truely solve these problems i'm certain they could and the result would be better for all countries involved but that is not what they're interested in unfortunately.