Back to the Important Stuff

[CuteOldGuy]

What in the hell are you talking about Timmy? That's not true, nor is it germane to this thread.

Call you doctor. Something's wrong.

[timpage]

What's not true? You gonna make me go dig up all the bullshit posts you threw up about poor Osama Bin Laden being executed without due process? Fuck you. Call your own doctor and have him adjust your meds boy.

[CuteOldGuy]

Yeah, I opposed the killing of Osama bin Laden. He was a treasure trove of intelligence. But what does that have to do with the indefinite detention of American citizens on American soil without any due process? You're ok with that?

I suppose you would be. It appears you like totalitarianism. I prefer liberty and freedom myself.

[timpage]

I already said I wasn't. Are you stupid, forgetful or illiterate?

Now, post up a defense for all the American citizens who have been or will be effected by this law that you claim will have such a HUGE effect on America. I'll be waiting.

[CuteOldGuy]

We will all be affected, and I am trying to defend them by getting this anti-American law repealed. I am exposing the law for what it is, something the state-controlled media won't do.

A person has an unalienable right to not have his/her life, liberty or property taken without due process of law. That is America. This provision of the NDAA denies every American that right. If it stands, we are no longer a free country. I don't know why you don't see that.

It's not a Democrat/Republican thing, they all voted for it. It's not an Obama or Romney thing, they both support it.

It is a Liberty/Tyranny thing. There is no middle ground. If you support this provision, then you support giving totalitarian power to the President. I don't support that.

In my mind, the ability of the government to pull anyone off the street for any reason and imprison them for as long as they want without charging them, or allowing them a lawyer, or even bail sounds like Stalinist Russia, or Syria, or a host of other brutal dictatorships. Hell, I don't think they can even do this in Iran. But we have people in this country defending this behavior. It's bizarre beyond belief.

But you can joke about it, you can ridicule me, you can do whatever you want. But if this is allowed to stand, America is not a free country. America will no longer be America.

This strikes at the heart of the principles upon which this country was founded. And to have this administration defend it in court is outrageous. To have the candidate of the opposing party support it is more outrageous. The fact that it passed both houses of Congress by a significant bi-partisan majority is still even more outrageous. And then when amendments are introduced to nullify the language, and are voted down by bi-partisan majorities, outrageous becomes insufficient to describe what's happening.

So yes, even if only one person is so imprisoned, America is gone. Done. Toast. We've lost our focus. We've lost our soul. The terrorists will have won.

It is a HUGE deal.

[timpage]

It's a tiny miniscule deal that you wouldn't even be talking about if somebody like George Bush was still president. Your entire diatribe is based in your delusional viewpoint that Obama is trying to take over the country via the big scary government and this might be one of the tools he'll use. Bullshit.

[CuteOldGuy]

I never liked, nor did I ever support Bush. Try making stuff up about someone else, Timmy. It's not working here.

You try to make this thread about me. It's not. It's about you, and the rest of us, and the freedom that is slipping away. You don't care, because you'd rather make shit up about me. I have no idea why, but if that is what helps you sleep at night, go for it.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by timpage

It's a tiny miniscule deal that you wouldn't even be talking about if somebody like George Bush was still president. Your entire diatribe is based in your delusional viewpoint that Obama is trying to take over the country via the big scary government and this might be one of the tools he'll use. Bullshit.

Timmy, what you fail to understand is that Bush didn't ask for that power. Obama did. You also fail to recognize the level of screaming the Democrats would have done if Bush *had* asked for that power.

You don't ask for extraordinary, extralegal powers unless you intend to use them, a lot.

In a real emergency, holding a real bad guy, the President would not need the power granted by the NDAA. He'd order the guy grabbed and held, and answer the inevitable court challenge by presenting, in closed hearings, the evidence against him. There is plenty of precedent for "exigent circumstances".

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Timmy, what you fail to understand is that Bush didn't ask for that power. Obama did. You also fail to recognize the level of screaming the Democrats would have done if Bush *had* asked for that power.

You don't ask for extraordinary, extralegal powers unless you intend to use them, a lot.

In a real emergency, holding a real bad guy, the President would not need the power granted by the NDAA. He'd order the guy grabbed and held, and answer the inevitable court challenge by presenting, in closed hearings, the evidence against him. There is plenty of precedent for "exigent circumstances".

The Road to the NDAA
It was President George W. Bush, together with Vice-President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and a host of other senior Bush administration officials who took the most radical and important steps toward establishing indefinite detention without trial as a mainstay of the US approach to fighting terrorism. But the Bush administration, preferring to act unilaterally, did not even bother to seek congressional sanction for its indefinite detention schemes. It established Guantanamo on its own, held American citizens without charge in the absence of a legislative mandate to do so, and fought judicial oversight tooth and nail.

[CuteOldGuy]

Another reason why GW Bush should stand trial and go to prison. And Obama with him for continuing this disaster.

Still, it would be nice to see a source occasionally. It's easy. You already know how to cut and paste, just do the same thing with the site address. Give it a try!

[CJ7]

allow me to play COF for a second

was the post a lie ?


sinck

[SEE3772]