MSNBC Host "Uncomfortable" Calling Military "Heroes"

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I don't think I missed his point. I addressed it earlier, had you taken time to read.

You have oscillated back and forth. You have appeared to agree with him but you want to bash him too.

Have that cake and eat it!

[CuteOldGuy]

No. I understand his point. I even pondered it. It is still stupid. His panel were even bigger idiots.

I will give him this much. He had a point that was understandable. That is rare. I'll give him a few props for that. But he's on MSNBC, for god's sake! How bright is that?

[WTF]

I'm a fucking hero for even debating this with you! Jeez!

[CuteOldGuy]

You'll always be my hero, WTF, you fuc'er you!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

When is a good time?

Have you seen the Pat Tillman Story?

You know the guy who was actually making a shit pile of money and then joined the military, was killed by friendly fire and the Brass tried to cover up? Is everybody that joined the military a hero or just those that died. Does the other side then have hero's too?

OPERATION COBRA (25 July 1944): General Bradley specifically requested that the bombers approach the target from the east, out of the sun and parallel to the Saint-Lô–Periers road, in order to minimize the risk of friendly losses, but most of the airmen instead came in from the north, perpendicular to the front line. Bradley, however, had apparently misunderstood explanations from the heavy bomber commanders that a parallel approach was impossible because of the time and space constraints Bradley had set. Additionally, a parallel approach would not in any event have assured that all bombs would fall behind German lines because of deflection errors or obscured aim points due to dust and smoke. Despite efforts by U.S. units to identify their positions, inaccurate bombing by the Eighth Air Force killed 111 men and wounded 490. The dead included Bradley's friend and fellow West Pointer Lieutenant General Lesley McNair—the highest-ranking U.S. soldier to be killed in action in the European Theater of Operations.

Tillman is but one of thousands to die that way in war. U.S. troops were strafed by U.S. gunships on Hamburger Hill in Vietnam. Nearly 100 U.S. soldiers, including Army chaplain Maj. Charles Watters, were killed or wounded by friendly fire during the battle of Dak To. General 'Stonewall' Jackson, CSA, was wounded by his own troops; it proved fatal. General Albert Sidney Johnston, CSA, was probably killed by his own troops, considering a bullet, from his rear, severed an artery behind his knee. General Thomas Williams, USA, was also killed by his own men, but it's still debatable whether it was an accident or fratricide. Generals Patton and Walton Walker died in vehicle accidents.

The accidental deaths of all of these men -- and thousands of others -- in no way diminishes their ultimate sacrifice. For a list of other such incidents see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Good Post Munchmaster.

I am also a Vietnam Vet, but I really do not get that offended by such remarks as this. Many times these remarks are made out of ignorance, some out of a self guilt.

I was drafted, I would not have went if not forced too.

We do have a tendancy to call anyone who gets killed under violent circumstances heros. I have always thought that a hero was someone who died or was injured doing something that he chose to do, knowing the possibilities of harm.

People who are killed or injured while doing something that by most accounts will not be expected to cause harm are victims.

Here is an analogy. On 9-11, the people who were in the Twin Towers when the planes hit were victims. The people on the airliner that crashed into that field were heros.

I was in the last lottery that had no draft. Draft number 2.
There are many honorable titles other than hero for our servicemen.

The best one is "Veteran".

Everyone knows the old saying, the hero stays brave or doesn't succumb to something that scares the shit out of everyone else, for 5 minutes longer.
And for a hero, sometimes that is the rest of their life.

The funny thing is that many, many people have hero in them. I thank God I haven't had to ride an airliner into the ground or jump on a little ball that doesn't bounce funny and will put my innards on the ceiling.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

The fact that any American on Memorial Day would be trying to determine which of our soldiers, either past, current, fallen or alive, is or was a hero is simply disturbing to me. Do as you wish though, still a free country.

Chris Hayes wasn't trying to determine it today. His show was on Sunday. Looked to be mostly consevative bloggers to me.
This thread was started by cog (edited; sorry whirly).
I didn't try to determine who was what either. I already have my own opinion on the subject. Just throwing some thoughts out there.

[CuteOldGuy]

Dammit, Munchie! I started this thread! Don't go giving credit to WW when it is mine! All mine! Muahahaha!

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

To me the individual soldiers are all heroes, fallen or alive. Talk about their dimwit fucking leaders and their idiotic policies all you want, but you need to leave the soldiers out of discussions like this and quit using them to make a political point. Some things are sacred for a reason, and this should be one of them.

Ask any serviceman if he feels he is a hero. I think you'll find most would be uncomfortable being called heroes for doing their duty. They better than most know who the heroes are.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Dammit, Munchie! I started this thread! Don't go giving credit to WW when it is mine! All mine! Muahahaha!

I saw that and corrected.

[CuteOldGuy]

They will still be heroes to me, even you, in that respect, Munchie.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

They will still be heroes to me, even you, in that respect, Munchie.

Like I said, it makes me uncomfortable to be called a hero.

Of all our fallen country men, the only ones that wouldn't jump at the chance to live again if what killed them could be undone, were the ones that died so others might live.

The heroes.

That's my definition.

All are honorable, all aren't heroes.

This isn't Tee-ball

[WTF]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The accidental deaths of all of these men -- and thousands of others -- in no way diminishes their ultimate sacrifice. For a list of other such incidents see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire.

I did not say that it diminishes their death. It just does not fall under a heroic death. IMHO.

A father killed in an auto accident on his way to work to support his family is a hero in my book. The death is not heroic but a man supporting his family is.

Pat Tillman actually was , again IMHO. He died saving one of the men under his command. The book is better than the movie. I highly recommend it.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/PatTillman...ory?id=8536693