The Right Wings War On Women...

[Laz]

Originally Posted by 1NEMESIS

Laz, the Tea Party candidates are the ones that are sponsoring these bills and bringing them on the floor and if what you say is true, you have reps that are completely destroying the Tea Party mantra.

Laz, your party has not made that distinction because their voting records often show complete unity on these issues. The political reality is that the optics concerning these social issues clearly identifies them as part of the republican platform and the voter does not make that distinction. It doesn't help either that no republican leader will step up and say that.
While you may not be supportive of this, unfortunately, your leaders don't care and have turned so far right that they have completely destroyed your party.

The Republican Party is not "my party". I am simply less annoyed with them than the Democratic Party. I am more supportive of the Tea Party simply because of their focus on fiscal issues.

If they are social conservatives I am OK with that as long as they do not go to far. The abortion issue is the one issue social conservatives push most often and good people can disagree on. However, since I do not believe they will change the status quo to much I don't care. Criminalizing partial birth abortion was a good thing but other than that no real changes have occurred.

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by Laz

The Republican Party is not "my party". I am simply less annoyed with them than the Democratic Party. I am more supportive of the Tea Party simply because of their focus on fiscal issues.

If they are social conservatives I am OK with that as long as they do not go to far. The abortion issue is the one issue social conservatives push most often and good people can disagree on. However, since I do not believe they will change the status quo to much I don't care. Criminalizing partial birth abortion was a good thing but other than that no real changes have occurred.

The Tea Party swept the House in 2010, what fiscally conservative bill did they pass up to this point?

[Laz]

Originally Posted by 1NEMESIS

The Tea Party swept the House in 2010, what fiscally conservative bill did they pass up to this point?

They have passed a budget as well as other bills. All of which the democratic controlled Senate refuses to consider. I can only hope that more Tea Party supporters are elected to the Senate this year. I actually worry more about Congressional elections than I do about the presidential election.

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by Laz

They have passed a budget as well as other bills. All of which the democratic controlled Senate refuses to consider. I can only hope that more Tea Party supporters are elected to the Senate this year. I actually worry more about Congressional elections than I do about the presidential election.

I don't know Laz, The Tea Party has an image and message problem made worse by the debt ceiling debate when Standard and Poor's pointed at Republicans as being the reason for the downgrade.
The current trajectory points to a massive loss for Republicans in 2012 in both the house and the senate, barring some catastrophic event.
We'll see I guess….

[DaMan]

Wow--a reasonably civil and calm political discussion. Excellent!

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by DaMan

Wow--a reasonably civil and calm political discussion. Excellent!

LOL! And it's one of mine too, lol!…...

[Laz]

Originally Posted by 1NEMESIS

I don't know Laz, The Tea Party has an image and message problem made worse by the debt ceiling debate when Standard and Poor's pointed at Republicans as being the reason for the downgrade.
The current trajectory points to a massive loss for Republicans in 2012 in both the house and the senate, barring some catastrophic event.
We'll see I guess….

They do have an image problem. But look at how they were slandered by democratic members of Congress as well as the liberal media. They were called racists and criticized for everything they pushed for. The budget deficit is massive and proposals that simply reduce the automatic 8% in spending are called draconian cuts. They are portrayed as heartless evil people for trying to avoid the economic disaster that is coming. When truckloads of lies and crap are poured on a movement public perception will be impacted.

As for the Standard and Poor's downgrade I agree they were blamed but the reality is the democrats have no interest in cutting spending. They used the opposition to the tax on the rich as a reason for blaming those rich republicans but the reality is that any tax on the rich will not solve the problem and the democrats have no interest in cutting spending.

Compare that to the occupy wall street movement where behavior was far worse and many laws were broken. The democrats and liberal media focused only on how they were good people frustrated. They had no coherent message nor any realistic solutions but in spite of that they were supported by the democrats because they were mostly supporters of the democratic party.

I think you are wrong about what will happen in the coming elections. If we do not get more fiscal conservatives in Congress the economic disaster we are headed for will make what we have been dealing with trivial.

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by Laz

They do have an image problem. But look at how they were slandered by democratic members of Congress as well as the liberal media. They were called racists and criticized for everything they pushed for. The budget deficit is massive and proposals that simply reduce the automatic 8% in spending are called draconian cuts. They are portrayed as heartless evil people for trying to avoid the economic disaster that is coming. When truckloads of lies and crap are poured on a movement public perception will be impacted.

As for the Standard and Poor's downgrade I agree they were blamed but the reality is the democrats have no interest in cutting spending. They used the opposition to the tax on the rich as a reason for blaming those rich republicans but the reality is that any tax on the rich will not solve the problem and the democrats have no interest in cutting spending.

Compare that to the occupy wall street movement where behavior was far worse and many laws were broken. The democrats and liberal media focused only on how they were good people frustrated. They had no coherent message nor any realistic solutions but in spite of that they were supported by the democrats because they were mostly supporters of the democratic party.

I think you are wrong about what will happen in the coming elections. If we do not get more fiscal conservatives in Congress the economic disaster we are headed for will make what we have been dealing with trivial.

Laz, I'm going to push back on most of what you said very hard and I will promise you that I will not attack you personally no matter how exasperated I get with you're political positions. I hope you do the same and I hope that we can come to a civil disagreement, but it is very important that we do this to illustrate our political differences as they mirror the divide in the upcoming Presidential election and it also illustrates the very stark differences between Democrats and the current Republican Party.

Before I begin, I will use examples, figures & numbers, video, actual bills and amendments to support my argument and if you have any evidence and proof that is contradictory, I expect you to make a reasoned argument supported by that evidence and include the link to such. I will not except the "liberal media" our "socialism" argument and if you do I will call you out on it. I will also ask that we adhere to a very focused issue by issue discussion and not veer off.

Do you agree and do you have anything you would like to add?

[Laz]

I will happily give you my opinion and I always try to be civil. I will not try to respond to your research by finding opposit points to prove you wrong. That becomes work not fun and I have no interest in it. That is why I want to know what you think not what you can quote. Is spending an issue or not. Were the racism charges blown way out of proprtion or not, will taxing the rich solve the problem. Simple questions that do not require research to answer.

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by Laz

I will happily give you my opinion and I always try to be civil. I will not try to respond to your research by finding opposit points to prove you wrong. That becomes work not fun and I have no interest in it. That is why I want to know what you think not what you can quote. Is spending an issue or not. Were the racism charges blown way out of proprtion or not, will taxing the rich solve the problem. Simple questions that do not require research to answer.

Thanks for responding so quick Laz, I'm sorry but I just can't agree to debate in that manner. For me, It's not about proving anybody wrong, it's about doing what's right for the country and to continue without example or proof is just not tenable considering the technical and complex social and economic issues that we will be discussing. Don't be confused, what I think comes way before what I quote and what I quote only supports what I think and what I'm claiming. It would've been fun though…...

[Laz]

That is fine with me, although I still would like to know if you think the deficits are a problem and what you think might be good solutions if you think they are a problem.

[Missy Mariposa]

I will admit I have not read all of the thread - I really actually had to stop at the picture of the vaginal ultrasound and reply.

I think forcing ANYONE to have that procedure done is totally uncool. When I was having uterine issues, I had to have several of them and they're absolutely dreadful - almost as bad as the surgery I had to have later to fix the problem.

Add to that the fact they're completely unnecessary to do the procedure in question and now you're standing between a person and their medical care.

As far as birth control and all that goes - I have no idea why a panel of men (3 of them are religious officiates) are the only ones to testify on it. They say it's "not just the birth control issue" but that's obviously the hottest part of this whole thing. It would be like like having a panel of women talk about the penis pumps Medicare pays for...pointless

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by Missy Mariposa

I will admit I have not read all of the thread - I really actually had to stop at the picture of the vaginal ultrasound and reply.

I think forcing ANYONE to have that procedure done is totally uncool. When I was having uterine issues, I had to have several of them and they're absolutely dreadful - almost as bad as the surgery I had to have later to fix the problem.

Add to that the fact they're completely unnecessary to do the procedure in question and now you're standing between a person and their medical care.

As far as birth control and all that goes - I have no idea why a panel of men (3 of them are religious officiates) are the only ones to testify on it. They say it's "not just the birth control issue" but that's obviously the hottest part of this whole thing. It would be like like having a panel of women talk about the penis pumps Medicare pays for...pointless

What's worse is the war the religious right is waging on Planned Parenthood. Only 3% of what Planned Parenthood does are abortions, the other 97% are women's health services like PAP smears and Breast exams etc.

The entire Susan G. Komen debacle was because of a republican ex gubernatorial candidate named Karen Handel that had been a fierce opponent of Planned Parenthood. Handel was a hired for public relations and she devised a way to cut the funding from Susan G Komen to Planned Parenthood. She has since been fired and Planned Parenthood will receive funds in the future.
I advise you to search the web for any women's organizations that are fighting against these attacks or I will find them for you if needed.

Here's a video of portions of that committee hearing and I think that all women need to listen to this:

http://youtu.be/_dihAiSlXM8

[1NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by Laz

That is fine with me, although I still would like to know if you think the deficits are a problem and what you think might be good solutions if you think they are a problem.

Sure Laz I'll tell you what I think, but we'll be off topic for sure so we need to go to a new thread and if you want to start it I'm game…..

[satexasguy]

can't we just get back to talking about pussy? or is that too much to ask on this site?