Girls and Guys Falling in Love, in trips to SE Asia

[nicemusic]

Dear ECCIE friends;

This may be a post considered non-PC, because of stereotypes. Still, I think I need to talk about it. I know there are few who participate on the Asia forums, but I hope you'll pipe in.

Any of you, who have read WSG and so forth, know well the stereotype of manipulative Asian women wanting to go to the US, wanting to bleed you of your money to give it to their families, etc. How they receive money from their foreign lovers but yet continue in the sex trade or have other relationships (actually, I did see this one commonly amongst the working girls). We have seen Thai women come here and subsequently get divorced, etc.

These stereotypes are also well known by Thai providers too--not just us mongers. I had one vociferously state and demonstrate she was not doing that. She reports how she resists her girlfriends who instruct on how to get my money,etc. That says how strong and prevalent this stereotype is.

I can also say that I'm not dumb with people and usually have a good sense about people's motivations and character. I've rarely been wrong, if my sixth sense tells me something. (If it's not saying, then, I know I don't know too.) The people on WSG would say I'm delusional and that these women are really really good at what they do. (They are in certain realms, yes, ... .) But, I do not know their cultures well.

That's the preface.

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I was in SE Asia this summer, as you might gather now and from my recent reviews. I met a number of girls/women, of course. It was super and memorable.

I treat women really well, and I find that I truly like them as people. I also like extended sessions, of one to three days length. I like to explore cities and adventure around with their company, etc. (If only I had the money for even one overnight in the US!) See some reviews for details. So, in sum, I simulate heavenly "dates" in SE Asia.

BUT ... I have had at least three providers in SE Asia fall in love with me. They definitely want a relationship. Two are sincere, but all express intense words--way over the top for an American guy. Is this acceptable and normal amongst Thai people? To me, it's crazy.

One says that she wants to pursue marriage, but "If I can't have you, I want to have your baby girl and raise her myself here." Another wants me to move in with her in Cambodia: "u know i need u to live with me" she wrote today. And the third one wants to move into my apartment in the US. Now, the first one will never talk to me again, by the way, because she thought I was with another woman during my trip (duh!). Another wanted to leave the date early, because "I am falling in love too much". (She was really going.) Etc.

Needless to say, this is rather fast for Americans to hear the word "love" to arise, to express such intense emotions, and to start living with someone. In fact, at least one of them seems crazy, and one clearly is craving love.

I am thinking of these possibilities:
1. Thai people may have a different conception of what it means to "be in love".
2. They express themselves differently.
3. They think this will attract a man.
4. Thai girls open their hearts readily (and perhaps close them too).
5. They believe you may be the guy on the white horse to save them and fall in raptuous love forever.
6. They more readily move into a relationship, without caution.
7. Providers there are not used to such extended kindness (?). Or, such things are perceived as overtures to real relationships.
8. These providers do not have hangups about living with lovers.
9. These women do not think about practical and serious problems with such relationship with a Western man from a different socioeconomic class.
Other than number 9, I don't know enough to know which of the above is correct or wrong. Nor, could I elaborate on them.

So, I'm hoping you will elucidate me. Please make this a good and productive discussion. I'm curious and would find it helpful. No doubt, some of you must have more experience with this and could share some wisdom.

Thanks
NM


P.S. As a side track: Truthfully, I started to develop feelings for these women too. I would even love to settle down with a good Cambodian or Thai woman. I especially like their cultures, food, humor, and looks. But, I am also wary of what could happen. Certainly, mongoring is not the best route for me to find a suitable partner. But, I want to understand all this much better first. (By the way, I really like Koreans too. ! )

[Meiji]

Here's a few thoughts that I have about it, with the caveat that although I've spent time in east Asia, I haven't been to Thailand or Cambodia:

The short version is if you are looking to settle down with an Asian girl, either find one already in the States or in a '1st World' Asian country like Singapore, Japan, or South Korea. Leave Thailand, Cambodia, etc for mongering and sight-seeing.

The longer version is that you not only have the sizable cultural differences between Asia and the West, but also the massive economic inequalities that make Southeast Asia such a tempting destination. That distorts any real possibility of personal connection, despite what many guys come to believe from the girls they meet, which is why some are suckered into those sorts of relationships.

In the best case scenario, if you meet a girl who isn't just suckering you for money and does want to come here and settle down, you still have the cultural hurdles to get over, and their culture will usually require the best-off member of their family to take care of the whole family, which means you'd be on the hook for taking care of her family, and when she gains permanent residency you'd be on the hook for sponsoring many of her family to come over the States. So even with the best scenario, there's some major complications in the offing.

I don't want to write off all of your girls' intentions as only money-grubbing. Generally, women there who meet a nice man that's financially well-off by their standards is a dream come true, especially when you are talking about women from the dirt-poor areas of these countries that come to the big city to make money for their families. There are certainly cultural beliefs in many east Asian countries that marrying for money is more important than for love, mainly because of family obligations.

So again, I'd recommend avoiding any attachments or complications with these girls, even in the best case scenario it's going to end up being a lot more trouble than it's worth.

[nicemusic]

Your advice seems reasonable, despite how tempting these opportunities are. It certainly falls in line with what I read nearly everywhere. The SE Asians seem particularly affectionate and better (in my experience) in the bedroom. I enjoy them. One can easily find one to date. I do like South Koreans a lot too, but they can be princesses and get interested in a relationship with an American (in my experience). Your message still seems to have wisdom.

I'm still interested in this phenomenon, from a more intellectual perspective. I.e., I'd like to know better where these SE Asian girls are coming from and their cultural norms better. Such as, is it normal for them to be so intense in the way they talk at the beginning of relationships? Do they move quickly through courting? How dedicated are they in their relationships, including just Thai people of the same class in the same communities? Etc.

I hope others will chime in.

NM

[seanes]

Having lived in two countries in SEA and having married a Thai while there, I don;t have time to address it now but will comment at length this weekend. My perspective however, is from the VietNam era before Thailand grew into the international sex playground that it is today. It has always had a great sexual freedom, but before worldwide leisure travel became commonplace, its charms were experienced by a much smaller community of men who primarily were there for work related reasons, and therefore their contacts in Thai society provided a different view of the opposite gender. The massage parlors and bars were a Saturday night-out with the guys and not a primary destination, nor did potential partners come from that environment. The bar scene today has morphed into a "Brave new World".


An excellent book to read is Thailand Fever, jointly written by an American Husband and his Thai wife. It will answer most of your questions.

[nicemusic]

Excellent, seanes. I hope to look up the book, when my workload allows.

When you have time, however, I hope you'll write more on this thread. I will look for it this weekend.

[Tiny]

Nicemusic, You missed the number one reason for a Thai hooker expressing her undying love to a farang -- regular monthly income via Western Union. If you're still interested in this you might want to check out www.stickmanbangkok.com -- start with Stick' weekly columns, and the green starred items under "Reader's Submissions."

[nicemusic]

Wow. That is a site. Makes one take pause. And, some pretty good stories too. Thanks for sharing, Tiny.

The book also has numerous good reviews. I will read it. Thanks for pointing that out, seanes.

The stories are so consistent from nearly every source. Amazing. It seems particular to the SE Asian region, and let's say not to South Africa.

Certainly it seems like there must be many better ways to find Asian partners than through our common interest here. It probably isn't as easy.

[nicemusic]

Hello seanes,

I read Thailand Fever. It's an easy read and gives a good sense of how things work generally, although it doesn't answer all my questions above. It gives the sense that a relationship could work, and essentially says the cultural differences are large and that it would be difficult.

Are you still married to a Thai? I would like to hear more of your perspective you allude to in your post, but did not have time to write. That could be via email, instead of taking up space on the board. And, that would allows for a different type of conversation.

Thanks