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Old 11-07-2024, 01:19 PM   #16
Tiny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingHere View Post
His administration would lower prices or at least reduce pricing pressure by:
1. deregulation
2. permissive energy policy
3. reduced government spending

The above three would be the big primary drivers.
I'll expand. Or as Blackman puts it when someone posts something that conflicts with his political position and is not simple minded, I'll bloviate.

Some background -- Do we really want to see prices fall? Many economists would tell you that deflation leads to recessions or anemic growth. People think prices will fall so delay purchases which leads to a decrease in demand. And that can be true. Japan and the Great Depression in the USA are examples.

On the other hand, if improvements in productivity cause increased supply, and demand isn't falling, then deflation can be positive. Oil and gas is an example. Improvements in hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling have resulted in increased supply in the USA, and lower prices than what we'd have otherwise.

Trump's policies that could result in lower inflation include,

1. As you said, Deregulation. Deregulation can improve productivity and lower prices.
2. As you said, energy policy. If Kamala were elected and reverted to her 2020 campaign policies, she'd ban fracking and drilling on federal lands and offshore leases. This would kneecap the industry in the U.S. and put the power to set prices back in the hands of OPEC.
3. Again, repeating you, reduced government spending. Absolutely. That's Keynesian economics. A question though, will this happen? Based on Trump's history in office, I'd say no. But he's saying that Elon Musk is going to engineer $2 trillion in cuts in federal government spending. If that's even close to true, it will help.

Trump's policies that could result in higher inflation include

4. Lower taxes. Again, that's basic macroeconomics. However, as long as spending is reduced as well, lower federal taxes make a lot of sense. If you shrink the federal government and leave more money in the hands of individuals, investors and businesses, which are the engine of growth, the economy will benefit.
5. Tariffs. I think they would just create a one time step up in inflation. I'm opposed to them more because they'll lower our overall prosperity, competitiveness, and productivity, than because of the inflation risk.
6. It's possible he may appoint more dovish people to the Fed, although it would be hard IMHO to find the people to do that given how far behind the curve the Fed was in 2021 and 2022.

And this could go both ways,

7. Massive deportation of illegal immigrants. This one's kind of like reduced government spending. Will it really happen? If it does, Trump says he wants to replace illegal immigrants with legal immigrants. That's actually a good idea IMHO. But Stephen Miller and others will be working behind the scenes to try to prevent that. In the short run, deporting millions may indeed increase inflation by creating labor shortages. But in the long run it would make the USA more like Japan and some European countries, which have shrinking populations. That would have a disinflationary or perhaps deflationary impact.
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Old 11-07-2024, 01:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 1blackman1 View Post
Some have MBAs and degrees in economics so might know a thing or two.

So if Trump can't get prices down, what will he tell the American people that voted him in because he promised to do so?

We already produce plenty of energy, even enough to go to market. We aren't producing more because there isn't any desire to lower overall production costs for fuel because the amount of profit for oil companies will go down. We are not at a lack of production or volume.

Energy costs won't have an effect the cost of day to day goods or groceries. People are expecting their costs to drop and they won't. Now I suspect Fox will do the full on press and tell people the economy is great simply because Trump says it is.

As a group Economists are wrong about the same amount as Weather Forecasters, especially when looking at direction changes.
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Old 11-07-2024, 03:07 PM   #18
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I don’t believe I used the word bloviate. I have yet to see a policy that will make groceries cheaper. The only one is for supply to exceed demand causing prices to drop in order to spur purchases. None of that is in the cards. I suspect that we will remain with price levels near where they are. Gas is already about as cheap as it will get so that won’t happen either. Their might be some relief on the electric or gas bill for homes but I dont really see that being significant either.

The likely truth is that prices are stuck where they are and that we will soon see an increase in the rate of inflation. All of the Trump policies that y’all keep referring to aren’t aimed at making peoples daily purchases less expensive.

A decrease in govt spending of any real significance would have to come from the military (overall bad) or from domestic spending (again bad because there just isn’t a large enough amount to get us there). I suppose they could just fire a lot of govt employees. I’d love to see how they’ll accomplish that - maybe forced retirements or shutting down departments completely - unlikely to be accomplished in a way that not have a disastrous effect.

I look forward to any actual policies that will make prices lower - since the govt doesn’t actually control supply of lettuce or eggs.
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Old 11-07-2024, 03:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingHere View Post
His administration would lower prices or at least reduce pricing pressure by:
1. deregulation
2. permissive energy policy
3. reduced government spending

The above three would be the big primary drivers.
... THIS certainly makes some sense.

#### Salty
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Old 11-07-2024, 04:21 PM   #20
Tiny
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Originally Posted by 1blackman1 View Post
I don’t believe I used the word bloviate.
Apologies, you didn’t. It was something like “paragraph after paragraph” and “lots of words” in Farmstud’s thread I was thinking about.

We probably don’t want to see deflation. There have been times when it’s worked out well but more when it hasn’t. Central banks aim for inflation around 1% or 2%, instead of stable or declining prices.
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Old 11-07-2024, 04:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by farmstud60 View Post
The first thing that will happen is the border will be closed.
Well THAT will bring prices down in a hurry.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHASH
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Old 11-07-2024, 04:51 PM   #22
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Trump shut down Iran oil exports to $6 billion Biden opened it up to $25 billion China and India are running Russian crude through their refineries and putting it back on the world market Shutting that down ends both wars Biden paused LNG export terminals and increased US coal exports Trump quote "We have liquid gold to sell the world and reduce our debt
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Old 11-07-2024, 07:27 PM   #23
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Hope you’re right. Wars need to be ended, but these conflicts go way beyond money, which is all Trump seems to understand.

He did such a great job with the debt last time around.

Hope you’re right. Doubt it though.
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Old 11-08-2024, 11:55 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 1blackman1 View Post
How long before prices drop back to pre-pandemic level?
LOL ... It could be the case that some people need to look up the words "deflation" and "disinflation," and seek to understand the difference.

(To be clear: Not you, Mr. Blackman. I'm sure all of us know very well that you're just being facetious and funnin' with us!)

However ...

It won't surprise me a bit if at least a few Democrats campaigning in 2026 House elections try to make the case that Trump has failed to "fix" the inflation problem since the price level will obviously not have fallen, let alone receded back to Q1 2021 levels. (And some uninformed people might actually be swayed by such bullshit!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
I'll expand. Or as Blackman puts it when someone posts something that conflicts with his political position and is not simple minded, I'll bloviate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1blackman1 View Post
I don’t believe I used the word bloviate.
You are absolutely correct, Blackman! VitaMan is the guy who used the word "bloviate." You said that Tiny and I were "waxing poetic!"

I'm not sure which is more effective rhetorically; bloviating or waxing poetic. Since I like to multi-task whenever possible, I may in the future attempt to simultaneously bloviate and wax poetic!

In any event, Tiny hit the nail squarely on the head with post #16, so I don't really need to do either at this point.
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Old 11-08-2024, 12:25 PM   #25
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I'm not sure which is more effective rhetorically; bloviating or waxing poetic.
"Waxing poetic," definitely, no offense to adav8s28. It's much nicer. I think Blackman may have complimented us!
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Old 11-08-2024, 01:29 PM   #26
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So are y’all implying that people that voted for Trump because they can’t afford groceries will be faced with the reality that they still won’t be able to afford groceries. Surely Trump will lower prices as he and the republicans promised in this election!
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Old 11-08-2024, 02:13 PM   #27
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So are y’all implying that people that voted for Trump because they can’t afford groceries will be faced with the reality that they still won’t be able to afford groceries.
Not if their incomes go up but the prices they pay at the grocery store don't.

There's more than one way to make things more "affordable".

IMHO - this single graph goes a long way toward explaining why trump has been embraced by the average American worker, whereas biden/harris have been rejected:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
.
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Old 11-08-2024, 02:26 PM   #28
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In any event, Tiny hit the nail squarely on the head with post #16, so I don't really need to do either at this point.
It was an excellent post, as usual.

Pointing out the factors that will slow inflation versus those likely to accelerate it under trump is a good start to this discussion. But they're not all of the same magnitude. Some will be felt more strongly than others. (Duh!)

During trump's first term (2017-2020), he cut taxes and imposed selective tariffs - yet annual inflation stayed relatively low at 1-2% (12-month CPI)... which tells me if properly crafted, those policies don't necessarily have to fuel inflation in a significant way.
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Old 11-08-2024, 02:40 PM   #29
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So are y’all implying that people that voted for Trump because they can’t afford groceries will be faced with the reality that they still won’t be able to afford groceries. Surely Trump will lower prices as he and the republicans promised in this election!
Yep. The whole world is laughing at the gullibles who swallowed the Trump promises and fearful of what is on the way.

Compare the GOP leadership during the first administration with the fucking idiots who’ll be running the show the second time around.

Hunker down! Stupid shit ahead.

And eggs will still cost 10 dollars a dozen (or whatever Maybelline Vance claimed they cost)
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Old 11-08-2024, 02:57 PM   #30
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And eggs will still cost 10 dollars a dozen (or whatever Maybelline Vance claimed they cost)
And out-of-touch libtards like Morning Joe Scarborough will still be clueless about the price of butter...

https://nypost.com/2024/11/07/media/...-of-butter-is/
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