Trump socialism

[Texxan52]

Trumps plan for a 100% tariff on foreign made cars is pure socialism. A Capitalist would say if US Automakers can't compete so be it. What do you high school graduate economist think?

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by Texxan52

Trumps plan for a 100% tariff on foreign made cars is pure socialism. A Capitalist would say if US Automakers can't compete so be it. What do you high school graduate economist think?

It's not pure capitalism for sure. However, China puts tariffs on products made in the USA. If one side does it, the other side should be able to do it as well.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Texxan52

Trumps plan for a 100% tariff on foreign made cars is pure socialism. A Capitalist would say if US Automakers can't compete so be it. What do you high school graduate economist think?

one of the main reasons US automaker aren't as competitive is the UAW. they add 5-7 thousand to the cost of a US car.

China doesn't have unions. well the Union of the Communist party that is but their labor is far cheaper.

Originally Posted by adav8s28

It's not pure capitalism for sure. However, China puts tariffs on products made in the USA. If one side does it, the other side should be able to do it as well.

Correct. it's China that not only puts tariffs on US products but also limits production in such areas as cars to keep their cars as the most available product. if China let Ford and Chevy sell unlimited numbers the demand would hurt their car makers. China won't allow that.

it's not a level playing field with China, not even close and they also require US tech and manufacturing to give them their trade secrets.

they tariff our products, limit imports from the US, restrict production and make us share our manufacturing tech.

what would an actual economist call that?

unfair trade practices


and so is Trump.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

one of the main reasons US automaker aren't as competitive is the UAW. they add 5-7 thousand to the cost of a US car.

China doesn't have unions. well the Union of the Communist party that is but their labor is far cheaper.





Correct. it's China that not only puts tariffs on US products but also limits production in such areas as cars to keep their cars as the most available product. if China let Ford and Chevy sell unlimited numbers the demand would hurt their car makers. China won't allow that.

it's not a level playing field with China, not even close and they also require US tech and manufacturing to give them their trade secrets.

they tariff our products, limit imports from the US, restrict production and make us share our manufacturing tech.

what would an actual economist call that?

unfair trade practices


and so is Trump.

Well, many parts used in the US assembly and subassembly are using Chinese parts most metal castings happen over there, things like engine blocks, rotors and other relays and things like light housings and plastics. This separatism and trade tarrifs are certainly in order when there are imbalances in trade.

But not for political statements purely. Saber rattling for the rally cries is a ruse at best.

Imagine Donald putting a hundred percent import tax on foreign-made autos, or parts. It would do nothing but drive up the cost of every car sold in America by $5,000 to $10,000 and delay cars by a year or more.

Some thoughts on the import of Chinese parts:
There are hundreds of Chinese companies with office in the US selling components used by car manufacturers, and the trade is worth tens of billions.

See:

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/3...ompliant_0.pdf
If you are wondering what impact a Chinese trade ban would have on the US auto industry, terrible, but only for a short period until alternative suppliers can be found. Unlike the situation in Russia, the US auto industry doesn’t depend on overseas suppliers for electronics and other high tech components. The sorts of things bought from the Chinese could be built anywhere, including the US, albeit at higher cost.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

Well, many parts used in the US assembly and subassembly are using Chinese parts most metal castings happen over there, things like engine blocks, rotors and other relays and things like light housings and plastics. This separatism and trade tarrifs are certainly in order when there are imbalances in trade.

But not for political statements purely. Saber rattling for the rally cries is a ruse at best.

Imagine Donald putting a hundred percent import tax on foreign-made autos, or parts. It would do nothing but drive up the cost of every car sold in America by $5,000 to $10,000 and delay cars by a year or more.

Some thoughts on the import of Chinese parts:
There are hundreds of Chinese companies with office in the US selling components used by car manufacturers, and the trade is worth tens of billions.

See:

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/3...ompliant_0.pdf
If you are wondering what impact a Chinese trade ban would have on the US auto industry, terrible, but only for a short period until alternative suppliers can be found. Unlike the situation in Russia, the US auto industry doesn’t depend on overseas suppliers for electronics and other high tech components. The sorts of things bought from the Chinese could be built anywhere, including the US, albeit at higher cost.

exactly what Trump would prefer .. more US based manufacturing in all areas not just the auto industry. this problem has existed for decades and partly the fault of US success. we are one of the highest average income per capita in the world. we are 4th and the top three are far smaller nations. of the big nations we are number 1 by a mile. the next big nation is Australia at 12th.


this means we've always had the size for resources and population for a large work force.

however, our success means you can't pay a US factory worker 10 bucks an hour. good manufacturing jobs in the US have to pay more simply because we became the largest economy in the world and have the highest standard of living.

you can pay 10 bucks an hour in Mexico for example. which is in large part why US companies moved plants off shore. the excessively high US corporate tax rate had a lot to do with that also. now it's more competitive which helps keep jobs in the US and to create new jobs.


Trump wants more US manufacturing more than a tariff war with China but if that's what it takes to level the playing field he'll do it. would he go as high as 100%? probably not, that's more campaign rhetoric to make the point but China .. and other nations ... do use tariffs to get unfair advantage on the US. Trump is not wrong on that.

you are right, in the long term the US economy can make up the difference far easier than China who is so dependent on exports to the US with no other big player to easily take our place it could actually crash China's economy.


Trump knows this and so does Xi. for this alone Xi will bargain. he has no choice not to.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Texxan52

Trumps plan for a 100% tariff on foreign made cars is pure socialism. A Capitalist would say if US Automakers can't compete so be it. What do you high school graduate economist think?

Please give credit where credit is due. This was Joe Biden's idea:

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/joe...-final/727014/

Just like Kamala took a couple of the Trump/Vance team's ideas, like the child tax credit, and one upped them, so too is Trump trying to outdo the Democrats.

What's ironic about Biden's 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicles and 50% tax on solar cells is that he's also pumping $1.2 trillion into green pork with the Inflation Reduction Act. That's according to Goldman Sachs. So while he's breaking the budget with green pork, he's also going to drive up the cost of low end EV's maybe by 100% and solar cells by 50%! Incredible! That's no way to run economic and climate policy!

And yeah, Trump's taking a bad idea and making it worse by proposing to expand Biden's tariff to all foreign cars.

I wouldn't call this socialism. Stupidity is a better description.

[farmstud60]

Originally Posted by Texxan52

Trumps plan for a 100% tariff on foreign made cars is pure socialism. A Capitalist would say if US Automakers can't compete so be it. What do you high school graduate economist think?

Not accurate at all. The problem is that every regulation the Fed government puts on business increases costs. Raising corporate tax rates increases costs and make corporations less competitive on the world market.


Tariffs are not always a simple answer like they first seem. Some countries also try and dump products on the world market at lower costs to gain market share.


Tariffs are a tool that can be used properly to help the U.S. economy, but it isn't always the correct tool to use.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

one of the main reasons US automaker aren't as competitive is the UAW. they add 5-7 thousand to the cost of a US car.

China doesn't have unions. well the Union of the Communist party that is but their labor is far cheaper. ...

Exactly! As soon as the american consumer demanded goods and services at the cheapest price, they slit the throat of Made In America.

*I* miss the days when we made stuff and we were proud of what we made.

[pxmcc]

China plays dirty. They subsidize their manufacturing, which then dumps their crappy products on clueless Americans below cost. fuck China.

but here's where Trump blows it, bigly. those folks tryna sneak in from Honduras, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. are our ticket to fucking the Chinese without any lube.

they just want a shot. they bust their asses and would be happy to work in an American factory at minimum wage or below. let's get some immies to build new factories, and other immies to work in those factories, with U.S. citizens at foremen and above. let's rebuild American manufacturing from scratch. China is eating us for lunch.

and after 10 or 15 years of service, then those immies could get in line for eventual U.S. citizenship. we're blowing a resource that is right in front of our nose. trump is bonkers with his Nazi ICE fantasies. he's got illegals up the wazoo at his properties because he knows damn well they're literally the best workers on the planet. then he demonizes them cause it's good politics.

oh, and did i say, fuck China? in case i didn't, well now i did..

one more thing. our trade deficits are a cancer on the republic, just like our budget deficits. let's get our effing house in order. trump's budget with new tax breaks is a clusterfuck waiting to explode. how bout we get our deficit to 0 and start paying off our debt? last prez to do that was Slick Willie Clinton. it's frickin doable af.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

how bout we get our deficit to 0 and start paying off our debt? last prez to do that was Slick Willie Clinton. it's frickin doable af.

Yes it’s doable. But only if we start raising revenues. That means raising taxes. Taxes up and down the income ladder. Every single person will have to pay at least a little bit more. The more income the higher the rate.

Good luck getting anyone in congress to vote for that.

[pxmcc]

^^you need a statesman like jfk to level with the electorate and lead by example.

either we fix that shit, or the market will do it for us. and that aint gonna be pretty.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Yes it’s doable. But only if we start raising revenues. That means raising taxes. Taxes up and down the income ladder. Every single person will have to pay at least a little bit more. The more income the higher the rate.

Good luck getting anyone in congress to vote for that.

wrong. it means cutting off ALL FOREIGN AID TO EVERYONE

and firing half the US Government as the useless bastard bureaucrats they are and FREEZING . ALL new Spending for the next 10 YEARS.


simple. yes?

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

wrong. it means cutting off ALL FOREIGN AID TO EVERYONE

and firing half the US Government as the useless bastard bureaucrats they are and FREEZING . ALL new Spending for the next 10 YEARS.


simple. yes?

no, it means sitting down at the kitchen table and having an adult conversation. that's what it will take.

Medicare is a clusterfuck, and Medicare Advantage is a clusterfuck to the power of an infinite clusterfuck, cubed. it's all very doable, but we need adults in the room. no more, no less.

could foreign aid be on the chopping block? sure. but it needs to be in the context of, here's where we're at, and here's where we need to be. how do we get there from here? what funding has the lowest ROI? let's get rid of that first, and then go from there.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

no, it means sitting down at the kitchen table and having an adult conversation. that's what it will take.

Medicare is a clusterfuck, and Medicare Advantage is a clusterfuck to the power of an infinite clusterfuck, cubed. it's all very doable, but we need adults in the room. no more, no less.

could foreign aid be on the chopping block? sure. but it needs to be in the context of, here's where we're at, and here's where we need to be. how do we get there from here? what funding has the lowest ROI? let's get rid of that first, and thengo from there.

no context. fire half the GOV fucktards. cut off the freeloading foreign aid. TO EVERYONE

yes it's that simple.

the US is a failed business venture. treat it as such.

yeah it's that simple

the Democrats won't stop spending. one might think they want to bankrupt the US


not hard to figure out why. yes?

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

no context. fire half the GOV fucktards. cut off the freeloading foreign aid. TO EVERYONE

yes it's that simple.

the US is a failed business venture. treat it as such.

yeah it's that simple

the Democrats won't stop spending. one might think they want to bankrupt the US

not hard to figure out why. yes?

This is the funniest thing that you’ve posted that I’ve read yet. Republicans will cut taxes for everyone but the wealthy will benefit the most. Cut spending, there’s absolutely no evidence that republicans will ever cut spending.

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-ha...udget-changed/

But even if they do it must be combined with increased revenue and for the federal government that means extra taxes.