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Old 08-26-2022, 08:10 PM   #76
HedonistForever
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Originally Posted by 1blackman1 View Post
It’s got the same effect as other govt programs such as farm subsidies, PPP forgiveness, tax decreases, oil company subsidies, tax programs which allow companies to write down huge amounts of taxes, etc. At the end they all have the same result - govt debt and deficits. You can’t be for one type and against others unless you’re a hypocrite. Stop trying to create something negative from one group while ignoring the same effect for other groups.

Either be against everything that creates govt debt and deficits or shit up the whining.

OK, I'm against all that! Long past time for government to stop picking winners and losers according to ideology and that includes both sides.
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Old 08-26-2022, 08:59 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by HedonistForever View Post
OK, I'm against all that! Long past time for government to stop picking winners and losers according to ideology and that includes both sides.
See. There are things we agree on.
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Old 08-27-2022, 12:27 AM   #78
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Wrong. What it will do is let many people who are saddled with school loans/debt be able to actually save some money and not have to live paycheck to paycheck for a year or two.

Speaking only for myself, but it would have made a world of difference when I graduated from undergrad if I didn't have to immediately start paying back my loans at the time that were more expensive monthly than my rent and utility bill.
You could make the same nonsensical case for buying a house or expensive car before you're ready. You willing to pay for someone else's mistakes? According to the those who crunch numbers, you're just picked up another $2100 of student loan debt.
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Old 08-27-2022, 02:04 PM   #79
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This wonderful plan looks like a perfect accompaniment to the unfortunately misnamed "Affordable Care Act," since the goal of both involves little more than pouring a lot more money into a broken, inefficient quasi-bureaucracy in which all the incentives are of a perverse nature, and no one need feel any pressure to rein in spiraling costs. In fact, the opposite is the case.

The only thing missing is Joey muttering the phrase "big fucking deal" into a hot mic!

This action not only raises costs associated with moral hazard, it enshrines the increase in perpetuity as each new cohort of students will look to the government and say, "They got theirs! Where's ours?"

And the higher education establishment will, with a wink and a nod, tell each of the future cohorts of students, "Don't worry about high tuition. Just take out a student loan. Much or most of it will be forgiven. The federal government has your six!"
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Old 08-27-2022, 02:11 PM   #80
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Good piece on the issue from City Journal:

https://www.city-journal.org/biden-c...t-indefensible

A key point is that although, due to the income cap, this is not a handout to the affluent, it is (mostly) a handout to "the not particularly needy."

To the extent that we -- as a society -- wish to assist those less fortunate who are deserving of a chance at a good educational outcome, shouldn't we at least focus on those from households of very modest means?
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Old 08-27-2022, 02:14 PM   #81
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Default Harvard's Endowment Is $53 Billion!

Why doesn't the DOJ launch an investigation into the "predatory lending" abuses that were obviously committed by colleges & universities in collusion with the Dept. of Education?

Hey, it worked after the subprime mortgage crisis! I seem to recall the DOJ and others shook down the major US banks for at least $110 billion to settle various lawsuits.

Question - Who is more likely to be misled, hoodwinked and predatorially snookered into taking on unwise amounts of debt - a naive 18-year-old college freshman with zero income/work history, or a middle-aged homebuyer with an established employment and credit history?

C'mon, man! Why isn't Merrick Garland's DOJ eyeing some of the big, fat endowments those institutions of "higher education" boast? Where are the Social Justice Warriors when we need them???
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Old 08-27-2022, 02:15 PM   #82
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Default The Student Loan Giveaway is Much Bigger Than You Think

Here is an interesting take from Alex Tabarrok of the excellent Marginal Revolution blog site. (Tyler Cowen)

https://marginalrevolution.com/

The Student Loan Giveaway is Much Bigger Than You Think
by Alex Tabarrok August 27, 2022 at 7:25 am in

Current Affairs Economics Education

Wiping out 10k in student debt is not the most expensive part of the Biden student loan program. Most Federal student loans are now eligible for an income based repayment plan, under these plans students pay a small percentage of their “discretionary” income, say 10%, and then after a fixed number of years the debt is wiped off the student’s books. At first glance these plans don’t seem crazy, but as Matt Bruenig points out they create perverse incentives.

Under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program, law graduates that go on to work in the public sector, which is a lot of them as the public sector employs many lawyers, only have to pay 10 percent of their discretionary income for 10 years in order to have their debt forgiven.

Law schools figured out many years ago that, for a student who is planning to enroll in PSLF upon graduation, prices and debt loads don’t matter. Ten percent of your discretionary income is ten percent of your discretionary income regardless of what the law school charges you and how much debt you nominally have to take on.

Law schools also realized that they could make the deal even sweeter by setting up LRAPs [repayment programs, AT] that give graduates money to cover the the modest repayments required by the PSLF.

The LRAP schemes work as follows:

The school increases their tuition.
The student takes out federal loans to cover the tuition increase.
The school squirrels away the debt-financed tuition increase into an LRAP fund.
The school disburses money from the LRAP fund to cover PSLF repayments.

Did you get that? Here’s a stylized example. Suppose a student will make 150k per year for 10 years working in the public sector. If they have 200k in debt they pay 15k every year to the government for 10 years and then 50k is “forgiven.” But now the law school comes to the student and says ‘heh, I have a deal which will make both of us better off. We are going to raise the price of law school to 400k but don’t worry not only won’t that cost you a penny more than the 15k a year you are already obligated to pay it will actually cost you much less because we will pay your payments of 15k per year!’ This indeed is a great deal for the student who pays nothing and it’s a great deal for the law school which gets 200k more revenue immediately in return for 150k of payments paid out over the following 10 years. Win-win! Except for the taxpayer of course.

But wait there’s more. Student loans can be used not only to pay tuition and fees but also to pay “living expenses.” Thus, under these plans, students have an incentive to take out as big a loan as allowed in excess of tuition and fees because no matter how large the loan the student’s costs are zero! Lyman Stone has a good tweet thread giving many examples of how to game the system such as “Every student should borrow their maximum loan eligibility and then find some way to invest it illegally. My strategy would be: rent a wildly oversized apartment and sublet.” And here is a tweet thread from Michael Feinberg showing how even wealthy parents may be able to game the system.

Furthermore, the new Biden plan makes the income driven repayment schemes even more generous!

The IDR changes are four-fold:

Increase the amount of income not subject to IDR from 150 percent of the federal poverty line to 225 percent of the federal poverty line.
Reduce the interest rate on IDR-enrolled loans to 0 percent.
For undergraduate debt, reduce the IDR rate from 10 percent of income beyond the threshold in (1) to 5 percent of income beyond the threshold in (1).
For IDR-enrolled debts with original loan balances below $12,000, reduce the repayment period from 20 years to 10 years.

Essentially what this means is that every school will now have the possibility of using a law school like program to shift costs onto taxpayers. Thus Bruenig concludes:

…going forward, these new rules could quite radically alter the incentives of colleges and students when it comes to college prices, institutional financial aid, how much debt to take on, and how to approach repayment.

Indeed, these programs are likely to be very expensive and the resulting increase in the price of tuition will lead to calls either to end the program or for price controls on education.

[Texas Contrarian's Note: That's a copy & paste of an unedited blog post, so there are a number of grammatical and syntactical errors, and a few of the Twitter (and possibly other links) didn't show up as they do on the marginalrevolution.com site]
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