Is an armed citizen a soldier ?

[JohnnyGleet]

Zelensky encouraged all adult males to take up arms against the Russians. Being in street clothes does not necessarily make someone a non-combatant.
How many of the dead in Bucha were actually armed citizen militia ?
Until 6 weeks ago, the Azov battalion was referred to as a right wing neo-nazi threat. Search youtube .
Is the west pretending to support Ukraine while the Russians do the dirty work ?
Or, is it just a repeat of Hungary 1956 ?

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by JohnnyGleet

Zelensky encouraged all adult males to take up arms ...

I think there is a difference between "encouraged" and dragged them off a bus at gun point. But I'm not an English major

Originally Posted by JohnnyGleet

..the Azov battalion was referred to as a right wing neo-nazi threat....

Ukraine crisis: Inside the Mariupol base of the controversial Azov battalion

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.

The first thing you notice as you walk through the corridors of the Azov battalion's base in Mariupol are the swastikas.

There are many — painted on doors, adorning the walls and chalked onto the blackboards of this former school, now temporary headquarters for the Azov troops.

It is a confronting sight and when I query the young soldier assigned to show me around he is quick to correct me, pointing out that the symbol is in fact a "modified swastika" — more like the letter N crossed with a straight line.

When I point to another symbol of the Third Reich etched on the wall, that of Hitler's "SS", he simply shrugs and says: "We are nationalists, but we are not Nazis."

The Azov battalion is a highly controversial Ukrainian paramilitary group that has drawn much criticism for its links to the far right.

The imagery it has chosen to adopt hardly helps to allay concerns, but for my young guide it is a non-issue.

"Some journalists prefer to present us as Nazis. They look for any chance to discredit our regiment," he said.

After last month's rebel defeat of Ukrainian forces at Debaltseve in the north, attention has switched to the port city of Mariupol, less than 60 kilometres from the Russian border, which most believe is next in the separatists' sights.

I have been invited to tour the Azov base where new recruits are in training, preparing to defend the city from an attack which most here are predicting will come before the end of the Ukrainian spring.

Like pro-Russian rebels, Ukrainian soldiers rarely provide their real names when talking to journalists, using platoon nicknames instead.

We want to build a new independent and sovereign Ukraine. That's what makes us different from other military units.

The 22-year-old, 6-foot 2-inch bearded soldier showing me around is called Dancer.

A roads engineer graduate from Luhansk, Dancer joined the Azov battalion last year shortly after the armed conflict began in eastern Ukraine, attracted by the militia group's long-term goals.

"Our battalion is comprised of conscious people who have a much higher purpose than just winning the war," he said.

"We want to build a new independent and sovereign Ukraine. That's what makes us different from other military units."

The Azov battalion is a volunteer military brigade that was formed last year in Mariupol, named after the sea on which the city is located.

It is closely linked to the Social-National Assembly, an umbrella organisation to a collection of ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine, and many of Azov's recruits are drawn by its perceived far right-wing ideology.

Currently under the auspices of Ukraine's interior ministry, there are deep concerns that arming right-wing paramilitary groups like Azov might backfire and present a future threat to the government, but Dancer says the fears are unfounded.

"The battalion operates as a professional military unit," he said.

"The commanders listen to you while you listen to your subordinates, and all the daily and military questions are solved in a democratic way.

"There is no violence against younger conscripts in Azov, no stupid orders and notations."

Azov volunteers fight alongside regular Ukrainian forces and were amongst the earliest to see action in the conflict last year and its troops have a fearless reputation.

"I wanted to join a battalion that would be on the frontline and participate in real action," Dancer said...

By Nicholas Lazaredes in Ukraine
Posted Thu 12 Mar 2015 at 7:24pm Thursday 12 Mar 2015 at 7:24pm, updated Tue 24 Mar 2015 at 6:30am

Awe, crud-buns! That was under Biden's VP watch. Go figure!?!
Recall, he was riding point on all things Ukraine.
But I'm confident they are still a swell bunch-o-fellas.

[HedonistForever]

Choosing to support the lesser of two evils. As old as time itself.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by JohnnyGleet

Zelensky encouraged all adult males to take up arms against the Russians. Being in street clothes does not necessarily make someone a non-combatant.
How many of the dead in Bucha were actually armed citizen militia ?
Until 6 weeks ago, the Azov battalion was referred to as a right wing neo-nazi threat. Search youtube .
Is the west pretending to support Ukraine while the Russians do the dirty work ?
Or, is it just a repeat of Hungary 1956 ?

If you are shooting at armed forces and don't have some kind of identifying colors, you are an armed irregular and can be executed in the field no questions asked. The video that Azv posted from Bucha a few days ago had a guy asking can we shoot if they don't have blue arm bands the answer was yes. I suspect that is who killed the citizens of Bucha... Ukrainian Azov Battalion members.. then they figured out we better stage it and blame the Russians because the days prior there were videos of the Police coming into Bucha and no bodies... even the initial Azov tweets which have been removed didn't mention any civilian war crimes...

So likely its all propaganda and not to be trusted.

Yeah, all the libs are not cheering on neo nazis... it's too funny. We went from punch them to support them overnight.

What dirty work would the Russians be doing for the West?

No, this is nothing like Hungary...

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

I won't post the whole article. Just enough to trigger the TL;DR trip level of the empty bottle-class trolls we have rattling around here. It is a long and informative read - IMHO.

Manufactured Crisis: CIA trained the Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion and has chosen Ukraine as birthplace of new “Global White Supremacist” Terror Threat

By The Exposé on April 3, 2022

The eruption of war between Russia and Ukraine appears to have given the CIA the pretext to launch a long-planned insurgency in the country, one poised to spread far beyond Ukraine’s borders with major implications for Biden’s “War on Domestic Terror”

As the conflict between Ukraine and Russia continues to escalate and dominate the world’s attention, the increasing evidence that the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is and has been working to create and arm an insurgency in the country has received considerably little attention considering its likely consequences.

This is particularly true given that former CIA officials and a former Secretary of State are now openly saying that the CIA is following the “models” of past CIA-backed insurgencies in Afghanistan and Syria for its plans in Ukraine. Given that those countries have been ravaged by war as a direct result of those insurgencies, this bodes poorly for Ukraine.

Yet, this insurgency is poised to have consequences that reach far beyond Ukraine. It increasingly appears that the CIA sees the insurgency it is creating as more than an opportunity to take its hybrid war against Russia ever closer to its borders. As this report will show, it appears the CIA is determined to manifest a prophecy propagated by its own ranks over the past two years.

This prediction from former and current intelligence officials dates from at least early 2020 and holds that a “transnational white supremacist network” with alleged ties to the Ukraine conflict will be the next global catastrophe to befall the world as the threat of Covid-19 recedes.

Per these “predictions”, this global network of white supremacists – allegedly with a group linked to the conflict in the Donbas region of Ukraine at its core – is to become the new Islamic State-style threat and will undoubtedly be used as the pretext to launch the still-dormant infrastructure set up last year by the US government under President Biden for an Orwellian “War on Domestic Terror.”

Given that this CIA-driven effort to build an insurgency in Ukraine began as far back as 2015 and that the groups it has trained (and continues to train) include those with overt Neo-Nazi connections, it seems that this “coming Ukrainian insurgency,” as it has been recently called, is already here.

In that context, we are left with the unnerving possibility that this latest escalation of the Ukraine-Russia conflict has merely served as the opening act for the newest iteration of the seemingly endless “War on Terror.”...

[LexusLover]

The Agency has done that kinda shit ... it's par. Cf Afghanistan & Russians.

Carter & "Operation Cyclone"

Eisenhower & S.E. Asia.

[JohnnyGleet]

Almost like a page out of the Anarchist Cookbook :

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/f...165300979.html

[JohnnyGleet]

Tattoo at 0:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw

[Jackie S]

So now we are condemning citizens of a Country for shooting back at an invading Horde.

Get fucking real.

I’m growing tired of all the “what Ukraine was”. A cesspool of political corruption.

We are living in a different World than what we did just six weeks ago. Putin decided to cement his legacy as the next Peter the Great or Joseph Stalin.

Depending on your point of view.

[reddog1951]

I think interpretations might vary, especially if one's homeland is being invaded by armed foreign powers.

Of course, our country is not subject to such invasion and hasn't been for a very long time.

The question posed by this thread is interesting, especially in regards to the second amendment clause specifying a well armed MILITIA as the preceeding qualifier concerning the right to keep and bear arms.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

So now we are condemning citizens of a Country for shooting back at an invading Horde.


Well, some of us seem to be making that case.


Get fucking real.

I’m growing tired of all the “what Ukraine was”. A cesspool of political corruption.


I agree


We are living in a different World than what we did just six weeks ago. Putin decided to cement his legacy as the next Peter the Great or Joseph Stalin.

Depending on your point of view.

Yeah, I particularly like the line, if you shot back at a Russian soldier, not wearing identification, that you are an "authorized" combatant against an army that has just invaded your country, killing your women and children, you can be shot on the spot! As opposed to being shot for just standing in front of a Russian soldier without a weapon, that has invaded your country killing your women and children.


So I guess if somebody invades your home, you better look for a uniform to justify shooting back.



I agree, this has nothing to do with whether Ukraine was corrupt, they were. Whether Zelenskyy was corrupt. This is about the fact that Russia invaded a country without provocation and is committing war crimes.


And to bring in a history of all the bad things America may have done in the past, in my opinion, has no relevance to the war crimes being committed by Russia.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Of course, our country is not subject to such invasion and hasn't been for a very long time.

There are "invasions" and then there are "invasions."

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

I agree, this has nothing to do with whether Ukraine was corrupt, ....

So, a country that has "corruption" may be invaded with impunity?

[JohnnyGleet]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

This is about the fact that Russia invaded a country without provocation and is committing war crimes.

Without provocation ?
Many experts in International affairs would disagree with you and have been warning about exactly this sort of outcome since at least 1995 :

https://theconversation.com/ukraine-...-russia-177999

[1blackman1]

That article doesn’t really support your hypotheses. In fact just the opposite. It basically admits that Putin wants the empire back and considerable losses of former Russian territories drove Putin to paranoia.

That’s not a provocation.