The rtight to Privacy and Face Mask wearing

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

You keep missing the point.
Masks don't keep you from getting the virus. They lower the chance of passing it on. Did you catch that?
You either have the virus or don't
The severity of your case is determined by the exact virus strain and how well your ammune system's ability to fight it off.





Both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization now recommend cloth masks for the general public, but earlier in the pandemic, both organizations recommended just the opposite. These shifting guidelines may have sowed confusion among the public about the utility of masks.

But health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and that the more people wearing masks, the better.

We talked to UC San Francisco epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

Why did the CDC change its guidance on wearing masks?
The original CDC guidance partly was based on what was thought to be low disease prevalence earlier in the pandemic, said Chin-Hong.

“So, of course, you’re preaching that the juice isn’t really worth the squeeze to have the whole population wear masks in the beginning – but that was really a reflection of not having enough testing, anyway,” he said. “We were getting a false sense of security.”

Rutherford was more blunt. The legitimate concern that the limited supply of surgical masks and N95 respirators should be saved for health care workers should not have prevented more nuanced messaging about the benefits of masking. “We should have told people to wear cloth masks right off the bat,” he said.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent

You have to have the disease in order to pass it on. So does everybody have the fucking virus? If someone has the virus they should stay the fuck at home. Healthy people shouldn't have to wear a mask they aren't sick. Local Governments are mandating everyone wear a mask whether you display any type of symptom or not. It's not about Health it's about compliance, and you fell for it. Oh by the way it's Immune System not ammune system. Quit trying to act like you know what you are talking about because you don't, dumb on.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

True.. its more anecdotal than anything.. but culturally its much more common in other countries to mask up when sick with ANYTHING...



If we don't want to believe its the masks.. fine.... but we SHOULD be looking into what is being done differently because clearly what we're doing, isn't working as well. Can't even attribute it to testing-- because we aren't #1 for testing per capita... and our infection per capita is higher than some countries with higher testing rates than we boast.

More anecdotal than anything? Respectfully, that's not true. There are studies using data from earlier on in the epidemic, when some health care workers (HCW's) wore masks and some did not, that show lower transmission rates to HCW's with masks. Studies showing the distance the virus is expelled via coughs through different types of masks. Animal studies showing the likelihood of infection through different types of fabrics. Studies examining the experience of Asian and central European countries where there was universal masking early in the pandemic. Simulations that model the effects on transmission when people wear masks. Older studies about masking and the MERS and SARS coronavirus epidemics from years past. And yes, there's anecdotal evidence. Like the hair stylists with Covid 19 who wore masks and didn't transmit the disease to any of their 140 customers. Or the passenger on the flight from Toronto to China who had Covid-19 and was coughing but wore a mask and didn't transmit the disease to other passengers. Or the seafood packing plant in Oregon that issued masks to all its employees shortly after an outbreak -- of the 124 employees who tested positive, 95% were asymptomatic and none were hospitalized. That's right, there's good evidence that not only do masks reduce the probability of transmission, they also may reduce the severity of the symptoms if you come down with the disease -- Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert, will be publishing a paper on that next month.

So, there's a ton of research out there on coronaviruses and masks, and it overwhelmingly shows masks work.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

You have to have the disease in order to pass it on. So does everybody have the fucking virus? If someone has the virus they should stay the fuck at home. Healthy people shouldn't have to wear a mask they aren't sick. Local Governments are mandating everyone wear a mask whether you display any type of symptom or not. It's not about Health it's about compliance, and you fell for it. Oh by the way it's Immune System not ammune system. Quit trying to act like you know what you are talking about because you don't, dumb on.

The problem is that there's asymptomatic spread of the disease. People spread it before they know they've got it. A large percentage of people who have it, over 90% if you believe Oeb and the epidemiologists he quotes, never knew they had the disease.

If this were influenza you'd have a point. There's not much asymptomatic spread, so the CDC's advice is the same as yours -- wear the mask if you have symptoms. Not so for Covid 19.

If we don't make any changes, no masks, no social distancing, etc., then on average each person with the disease passes it on to 2 or 3 other people. That means exponential growth. We've seen it in New York City, Italy, Spain, Wuhan, now Texas. It's so much easier on the economy and the health care system if you can stamp this out before it gets to that point. The only way to do it without closing down businesses is masks and testing and tracing. And right now we're too far gone in much of Texas for testing and tracing to help a lot, especially when it takes a week to get test results back.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

The majority of people have been wearing masks for three months yet the numbers of Cases, Hospitalizations and deaths continue to rise. I am entitled to my opinion on that because that is what I am being presented with. So if masks help we should be seeing a steady decline and we aren't. So yes they are facts.

I'm assuming you live in the Rio Grande Valley, so Texas is relevant. A majority of people weren't wearing masks where I live until Governor Abbott passed the mask order 2 weeks ago. And you can still walk into office buildings, stores, and overcrowded restaurants and see a lot of people who don't have them, or they're just wearing the masks over their mouths and not their noses. They don't enforce the law where I live -- there's no danger of being fined.

In any event, this hasn't had a lot of time to work. It might take a week from exposure to the virus to develop symptoms, another week to end up in the hospital, and a month to die. So you wouldn't necessarily see the hospitalizations and deaths flattening or falling yet. As to number of reported cases, as Trump correctly says, those are a function of how many tests you do, as well as how many people are actually infected.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Tiny

As to number of reported cases, as Trump correctly says, those are a function of how many tests you do, as well as how many people are actually infected.

Several weeks ago a local TV station in Houston did research for one of those "truth" segments and determined that hospitals received an average of about $50,000 ($20,000 for admission processing and another $30,000 [rounded down numbers ... actually slightly higher]) in government aid for "hospitalization" for Covid19 so long as the hospital can attribute (justify) the admission on Covid19.

In the "real world" that's an incentive to classify an illness. It also augments the stats for the CommunistSocialistLiberalAntiT rumpDomesticTerrorists! And their apologist, Joe Bitten@!

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

The problem is that there's asymptomatic spread of the disease. People spread it before they know they've got it. A large percentage of people who have it, over 90% if you believe Oeb and the epidemiologists he quotes, never knew they had the disease.

If this were influenza you'd have a point. There's not much asymptomatic spread, so the CDC's advice is the same as yours -- wear the mask if you have symptoms. Not so for Covid 19.

If we don't make any changes, no masks, no social distancing, etc., then on average each person with the disease passes it on to 2 or 3 other people. That means exponential growth. We've seen it in New York City, Italy, Spain, Wuhan, now Texas. It's so much easier on the economy and the health care system if you can stamp this out before it gets to that point. The only way to do it without closing down businesses is masks and testing and tracing. And right now we're too far gone in much of Texas for testing and tracing to help a lot, especially when it takes a week to get test results back.

People are wearing masks and practicing Social Distancing this pandemic has been going on for over four months and the numbers in cases are going up. The state I live in has extended it's phase 2 in the reopening. Furthermore not everyone is asymptomatic and just how contagious is someone without symptoms? So if the majority of the people in a given population are practicing precautions but yet the incident rates of a disease continue to rise what does that tell you?

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by Tiny

The problem is that there's asymptomatic spread of the disease. People spread it before they know they've got it. A large percentage of people who have it, over 90% if you believe Oeb and the epidemiologists he quotes, never knew they had the disease.

If this were influenza you'd have a point. There's not much asymptomatic spread, so the CDC's advice is the same as yours -- wear the mask if you have symptoms. Not so for Covid 19.

If we don't make any changes, no masks, no social distancing, etc., then on average each person with the disease passes it on to 2 or 3 other people. That means exponential growth. We've seen it in New York City, Italy, Spain, Wuhan, now Texas. It's so much easier on the economy and the health care system if you can stamp this out before it gets to that point. The only way to do it without closing down businesses is masks and testing and tracing. And right now we're too far gone in much of Texas for testing and tracing to help a lot, especially when it takes a week to get test results back.

Tiny - let's make a correction here. I don't think I wrote that of the total population affected by wuhan Virus infection, that 90% were asymptomatic. One may or may not include that cohort of patients minimally symptomatic who do not seek medical attention or diagnosis.

Ther may be articles out there quoting that 90% number - It is not in J. Ioaniddis article i quoted and posted in march - to my memory.

What I have advocated is that the asymptomatic % of the total population affected by wuhan virus is large - undefinable exactly - and that denominator lowers the case mortality rate significantly less than the early terror posts of the leftist demLibs trying to terrify the population into home prisons and destroy the economy to defeat trump.

And - who have succeeded admirably in their aims for the country, along the with OBLM riots and looting - and projecting 'Racism' on anything remotely non-Marxist - such as "Math and science"!


However - I digress - the proof is that the case mortality rate is declining - deaths are down in relation to documented infections - which relates to better medical care. Increased cases are beginning to fill and strain the hospital system in certain areas of the country - but not all.



DemLib terrorists have realized people are tired of being imprisoned - and they cannot support the narrative of 'millions of deaths' in america From wuhan virus - which was after all " developed in an Army lab and transported to Wuhan, China as a Trump plot to discredit Comrade Xi". From the CCP.


Swallowed wholesale by DPSTnarrative devotees.



enough digression - Tiny - if you have articles on the 90$ figure that is other than speculation - I would be happy to read the article(s).

Thank You - Good sir - for a voice of reason.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Tiny - let's make a correction here. I don't think I wrote that of the total population affected by wuhan Virus infection, that 90% were asymptomatic.

Oeb, I said over 90%. I'm not sure what % you and Ioannidis would think is asymptomatic, but thought it would be a lot more than 90%. You can see this in much of what Ioannidis has written on Covid-19. For example, he was a co-author of this:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....14.20062463v2

The paper estimates that 54X more people had been infected in Santa Clara, California than were counted as confirmed cases.

I don't think the paper is worth your time to read, as it has received a lot criticism from the scientific community. Among other things, the antibody test would have generated a good number of false positives. Also, they recruited off Facebook. The reasoning goes that if you think you had Covid-19, you would have been a lot more likely to volunteer to get the antibody test.

I may be imagining things, but I thought you were guessing the number of Americans infected by Covid-19 earlier on in the crisis was around 20%, which, like Ioannidis' study, might imply a large number of people were asymptomatic. (Right now, the 3.78 million confirmed cases we've got only represents 1.2% of the population.)

I didn't realize that you and Ioannidis might believe that a large number of people who have the disease but aren't confirmed cases actually have had symptoms. That is, they weren't all asymptomatic, many just never got tested. My bad.

I don't think it's unreasonable however to believe that for every confirmed case, there are ten people walking around with Covid 19 that haven't been tested. This is actually what the CDC said two or three weeks ago. Some of those people will isolate at home. I hope the others, symptomatic and asymptomatic, are using masks.

I agree with you about the infection fatality rate declining, which is a good thing.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I'm assuming you live in the Rio Grande Valley, so Texas is relevant. A majority of people weren't wearing masks where I live until Governor Abbott passed the mask order 2 weeks ago. And you can still walk into office buildings, stores, and overcrowded restaurants and see a lot of people who don't have them, or they're just wearing the masks over their mouths and not their noses. They don't enforce the law where I live -- there's no danger of being fined.

In any event, this hasn't had a lot of time to work. It might take a week from exposure to the virus to develop symptoms, another week to end up in the hospital, and a month to die. So you wouldn't necessarily see the hospitalizations and deaths flattening or falling yet. As to number of reported cases, as Trump correctly says, those are a function of how many tests you do, as well as how many people are actually infected.

Well I don't live in Texas. I saw people wearing masks even before there was any mandate, even more now of course since there is a mandate. Whatever this disease is people will get it, some won't. Some will even die from it regardless of what you do.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

People are wearing masks and practicing Social Distancing this pandemic has been going on for over four months and the numbers in cases are going up. The state I live in has extended it's phase 2 in the reopening. Furthermore not everyone is asymptomatic and just how contagious is someone without symptoms? So if the majority of the people in a given population are practicing precautions but yet the incident rates of a disease continue to rise what does that tell you?

That tells me that more testing is being done than last month. But several recent media reports have indicated that there has been some serious reporting flaws with respect to test results as they relate to the % of persons who have reportedly tested "positive"!

It is in the interest of some of these LOONS to over estimate the infected population.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Oeb, I said over 90%. I'm not sure what % you and Ioannidis would think is asymptomatic, but thought it would be a lot more than 90%. You can see this in much of what Ioannidis has written on Covid-19. For example, he was a co-author of this:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....14.20062463v2

The paper estimates that 54X more people had been infected in Santa Clara, California than were counted as confirmed cases.

I don't think the paper is worth your time to read, as it has received a lot criticism from the scientific community. Among other things, the antibody test would have generated a good number of false positives. Also, they recruited off Facebook. The reasoning goes that if you think you had Covid-19, you would have been a lot more likely to volunteer to get the antibody test.

I may be imagining things, but I thought you were guessing the number of Americans infected by Covid-19 earlier on in the crisis was around 20%, which, like Ioannidis' study, might imply a large number of people were asymptomatic. (Right now, the 3.78 million confirmed cases we've got only represents 1.2% of the population.)

I didn't realize that you and Ioannidis might believe that a large number of people who have the disease but aren't confirmed cases actually have had symptoms. That is, they weren't all asymptomatic, many just never got tested. My bad.

I don't think it's unreasonable however to believe that for every confirmed case, there are ten people walking around with Covid 19 that haven't been tested. This is actually what the CDC said two or three weeks ago. Some of those people will isolate at home. I hope the others, symptomatic and asymptomatic, are using masks.

I agree with you about the infection fatality rate declining, which is a good thing.

Tiny - thank You, sir
i agree the declining death rate is a good thing.

To my mind - the exact % of asymptomatic infected with Wuhan virus is unknowable - and any number is speculation.

a large 5 of population overall eventually as the virus sweeps through the population - very Likely.

and - that number changes as the virus advances and more people become infected. .
I do think the number of asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic infected is many times larger than diagnosed/treated/hospitalized.

Those number change daily.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

... awhile back during the LAST ADMMINISTRATION!)

Originally Posted by JCM800

JC ... we do agree on something I see!

Were they trying to avoid spreading something?

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

That tells me that more testing is being done than last month. But several recent media reports have indicated that there has been some serious reporting flaws with respect to test results as they relate to the % of persons who have reportedly tested "positive"!

It is in the interest of some of these LOONS to over estimate the infected population.

I've heard about the tests being faulty too. False positive test results will probably lead to shutdowns again.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

People are wearing masks and practicing Social Distancing this pandemic has been going on for over four months and the numbers in cases are going up. The state I live in has extended it's phase 2 in the reopening. Furthermore not everyone is asymptomatic and just how contagious is someone without symptoms? So if the majority of the people in a given population are practicing precautions but yet the incident rates of a disease continue to rise what does that tell you?

I'm pretty convinced based on what I've read that if most (not just a majority of) people properly comply with recommendations for wearing masks and do common sense social distancing, then as CDC director Redfield believes, in four to eight weeks the epidemic would be brought under control.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/14/...irector-urges/

If you feel comfortable saying, what state and, if relevant, city do you live in?

[oeb11]

At the rate of spread of Infections - control might be achieved by masks and social distancing - but more likely by herd immunity.

The LibDems would claim victory - and require masks forever as routine ( and to control the people) - as whether the control of wuhan was herd immunity or populace compliance with DemLib control would be difficult to determine.

and - Libdems would shut down - with their control of the LSM- any contrarian viewpoint.