Fake ID for age

[danceman]

What if she said she was 21 but really is 17.

Hypothetical scenario.

A meet and greet is arranged at a local establishment that requires an ID age verification for cocktails. The young woman produces said ID and receives the cocktail. Later, it comes to light that she is underage. Can statutory rape be charged?

One of the reasons I try very hard to stay away from the really young looking providers.

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by danceman

A meet and greet is arranged at a local establishment that requires an ID age verification for cocktails. The young woman produces said ID and receives the cocktail. Later, it comes to light that she is underage. Can statutory rape be charged?

Didn't you leave out some facts in your hypothetical? Or did she get dick with her seven and seven? I think you're making an argument about reliance as a defense, so you need to be CLEARER. What the hobbyist observed would be critical.

That remind me of a joke in the movie 'The Verdict': (paraphrasing)

O'Shaughnessy: Did you hear about that new bar? You get a drink, you get a sandwich, and you get laid, all for 50 cents.

O'Brien: Are you sure? Have you been there?

O'Shaughnessy: No, but me sister has.

[danceman]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Didn't you leave out some facts in your hypothetical?

There are no facts, this is something I have wondered about for awhile.

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Or did she get dick with her seven and seven?

Yep, but it was crown and coke

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I think you're making an argument

Didn't mean too, thats a lawyers job

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

about reliance as a defense,

Please expound

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

so you need to be CLEARER. What the hobbyist observed would be critical.

Well Officer, we was standing in the fresh vegetable department, by the cucumbers, when we saw 'em. They come around the frozen food section with nothing on but Nike's and smiles! They was streaking. I yelled out "Don't look Ethyl!", but it was too late, Ethyl was already sucking on a cucumber.

[instfixer]

Shyster Jon went through this some time ago.
If this is a p4p situation, and she is 17, and you pay her, and you get caught no matter how good the ID is.. you are toast.

I believe if the same scenario but it is NOT a p4p situation (you met her at work) then you are OK [ but stupid for flirting with possible jail bait]
Texas law of course

[ShysterJon]

I forgot about this thread, so I appreciate instfixer waking me up by posting.

Even after I asked for clarification, the OP's question remains unclear. However, I've developed my mindreading skills over the years and I THINK the OP is asking this: Under Texas law, can a person rely on circumstances as a defense to engaging in prostitution with an underage provider?

My answer is "no." The provider's age is an element of the offense of felony prostitution with a provider age 17 or younger. Once the State proves age, the defendant may rebut that proof with contrary evidence of age. For example, if the provider testifies she's 17, the defendant may offer a certified copy of the provider's birth certificate showing she was actually 18 years-old at the time of the alleged offense.

However, by contrast, my mindreading ability tells me that what the OP is describing is a provider showing ID to the doorman and being admitted to a hobby meet-and-greet, then showing ID to the bartender and getting served an alcoholic beverage. The ID is fake and, in reality, the provider is only 17 years-old. The hobbyist assumes the interaction between the provider and doorman based on the provider's presence in the meet-and-greet, and observes her showing ID and buying a drink.

Under such a scenario, can the hobbyist beat the rap based on his inferences gleaned from observation? NO. Age is an empirical fact. What the hobbyist THOUGHT the provider's age was is irrelevant. Suppose the state proves the provider's age with her birth certificate. Pursuant to a reliance defense, the hobbyist defendant calls as witnesses a convent of nuns to testify that they all told the defendant the provider was 21 years-old, and the defendant credibly testifies he believed the girl was 21 years-old. He still loses because the State doesn't need to prove intent ('mens rea') regarding the complaining witness' age -- that is, the State doesn't have to prove the defendant actually knew or should have known the provider was 17 years-old or younger -- the State need only prove the provider was 17 YEARS-OLD OR YOUNGER.

[gt27]

Hate to tell you, your stupid shit hypo is a crime. Strict liability can be a cunty issue, but you are stuck with this weeks hypo colonoscopy. Smile.

[danceman]

SJ, thank you.

[Luv-Em-All]

Are you speaking about a provider, and if you are should the community be alerted to her name so that she can be removed if on the board and members can stay away. I am sure that there are some members that would see it more as an attractant rather than a deterrent, so I am not sure how the proper way to handle this would be if in fact she is a provider. I had a similar situation happen to me in my twenties. Met a girl at a college party, turned out we went to the same school. Later on that night she ended up spending the night in my bed. I can honestly say that there was no penetration. In the morning I offered a ride home, and on the way there figured out she lived with her parents. I then had a sudden feeling of panic, because the college I attended also had a high school. Come to find out when she told me she was a junior, she meant junior in high school not college.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by Luv-Em-All

Are you speaking about a provider, and if you are should the community be alerted to her name so that she can be removed if on the board and members can stay away. I am sure that there are some members that would see it more as an attractant rather than a deterrent, so I am not sure how the proper way to handle this would be if in fact she is a provider. I had a similar situation happen to me in my twenties. Met a girl at a college party, turned out we went to the same school. Later on that night she ended up spending the night in my bed. I can honestly say that there was no penetration. In the morning I offered a ride home, and on the way there figured out she lived with her parents. I then had a sudden feeling of panic, because the college I attended also had a high school. Come to find out when she told me she was a junior, she meant junior in high school not college.

Good grief:

Brings back memories. I once met a young lady that told me she would graduate next year. I thought college, she meant High School. I had already asked her out, and she had accepted when I started asking about what her major was and I got a blank stare. Then I asked about her other classes. I canceled the invitation to dinner.

No thank you,

JR

[danceman]

Originally Posted by Luv-Em-All

Are you speaking about a provider,...

No provider, bp girl, college student, girlfriend or split tail in any fashion.

This was a hypothetical question.