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Join Date: Jul 19, 2010
Location: Southern USA
Posts: 696
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A guide to Nogales, Sonora (Mexico border town)
Nogales, Sonora (MX) -
I was here about 4 days. This is the info I gathered.
Although not close to the ease, lacks the variety, and has few high-quality choices compared to those of Tijuana, all the necessary options are readily available within a five-min walk from the border crossing, on either side of the main road south into Nogales, Sonora. It takes no great effort to know it all, as men will approach you anytime of the day or night with offers, if you are a lone Caucasian walking slowly. Drugs are readily available, but I don't do them. Other than knowing price ranges for whatever you’re seeking, a guy needs to do very little research. The options come to you–they are desperate to get work.
The city is hurting economically, with few tourist and lots of deportees. It is not a beautiful place and has little to offer a tourist, esp. now that most tourist shops are closed after the economic meltdown several years ago. Despite this, Nogales is not particularly cheap in nearly any regard, except for questionable taco stands. (The trustworthy restaurant are much more expensive.) Safety for tourist seems less of an issue, if you stick to those “tourist areas” and don’t do stupid things. Still random things can happen, and did to me.
One should note that nearly everybody in the area, girls, the hawkers, and the club owners, know each other. This may not be apparent to at first. In fact, pimps, clubs, etc., are often offering the same girls, just through different vendors (“strip” clubs, pimps, massage parlors, etc.). Street walkers are rare, and I think still depend on pimps to do the negotiating and looking after.
The offers (cost) will range over the map, even from the same people for the same girls on different nights. They try to gauge you from your attitude, approach, and appearance. Clubs and massage places give you immediate satisfaction, if you do the deed inside. You also don’t have to go through the pain of seeing one girl at a time and rejecting each until you get what you want. You can see the choices. In the end, it seems one pays the same negotiated price, whether the girl is high or low quality–so just keep insisting until you get what you want.
Whatever you schedule outside those establishments, it seems to take more hours more than one expects--it isn't generally immediate like we're used to in SE Asia. When negotiating price, the men will always *act* as your advocate, but remember that nearly all of them are really working for someone and personally needing to make a profit off of you. They can however get a good price for you, if they are making up for a severe screw up on their part. Nearly everyone along the way will ask for a tip: $5 will generally satisfy most people, but $10 will please them, even if they walk you for two minutes from the bridge to the front of a club. Especially outside the club, the girl will probably want a tip afterwards, and they are good at working you to get that money.
All girls have children and the stretch marks can be extensive; and, many have husbands/boyfriends, often unrelated to their children. So, overnights can be difficult to achieve, even if they agree to it; i.e., they just walk out after their “job” is done. Recommendation for Nogales: Demand that you will pay at the end; if they will not agree to this, there are many more options from numerous places. If you walk away, they’ll probably agree anyways.
On the East (left) of immediately going over the border from the USA to Mexico, Club 69, Bolerio, and Eros massage. None of these are frequented as often, and their girls don't seem quite as attractive. They are more desperate for work, however, and their prices might be negotiated lower. On the West (right of the border) is Obsessions (club) and a massage place called Osiris south of there, surprisingly in a shopping market.
There can be problems with inviting girls into the named hotels, even after you have asked whether they are girl friendly. Any young-looking girls must now have an ID, even if they are over 18 years old–recently, authorities arrested an African-American man, who was caught with a 15-yr-old and the hotels are clearly freaked out by the authorities. There are however plenty of back-alley hotels (crappy), which don't ask questions, in the case your girl doesn't bring an ID. This happened to me twice; but, I ensured they were above 18 yrs in other ways. (Don’t put yourself into a Mexican prison for 25 years, please, by being stupid!) So, I once had to pay for a second hotel at a rate of 150 pesos/session or so; the Frontera would be a convenient example of this type of hotel. I'm told to avoid the mafia and other elements at the California hotel. And, I had trouble with a religious security guard at a well-established GF hotel: Had I not been insistent and argued unpleasantly, I would have been in another hotel again that night. Of the respectable accommodation options, the Regis is by far the best quality for the cost (400 pesos). I stayed at Olivia, which is not that great and more expensive (470-700 pesos with 50pesos deposit). The Fran Marcos is the best and fanciest hotel of the area at 795+150 pesos deposit.
"STRIP" CLUBS
These are brothels, although the girls do dance and strip their tops. They all dance in a Latin style. A few are good, but none are excellent dancers, unlike one or two I saw at my favorite place in Tijuana.
These clubs are consistently the most expensive of all the options. But, one can deal them down a lot, with the right person negotiating. One also can see all the girls at once and pick the type you like. You can also talk with them beforehand, if personality or English skills matter to you.
Near these clubs, scruffy men will want to get a commission for bringing you in. From what I can tell, your cover—when requested—will be the same amount, whether they get their commission. The clubs may, but not always, charge you a cover, which usually will mean you get a beer or even a beer and a shot of vodka for a few dollars—actually a good deal for you, if you wish to get intoxicated. If you look hesitant or likely to hire a lady already, they will probably waive it. They want money and have a business relationship with the bouncer and club.
Around the corner from the clubs, interestingly, these same men will try to give you offers outside the clubs at discounts. In fact, they will see you looking on the bridge a few blocks away and try to flag you down. Nearly all offers will be high, and prices will descend as you ponder and seem on the edge. Some will get desperate after a long negotiation and you can see them hit a point where they can go no further without squeezing money from others involved (they are loath to do that and won’t generally).
The amenities, dances, and drink prices of all the border clubs are all equivalent in cost, and the quality of the rooms among all three "strip" clubs were similar. The 69, I believe has “rooms” that are on upstairs looking down upon the club—I find that less appealing personally. Even though people downstairs can’t see anything, I’m told, I like a better sense of privacy.
You can generally get a beer for $4, lady drink for $12. Lap dance about $6 and private dance at $23. 1 hr in the back room for $130 (day) to $150 (night or extremely young), but they will ask much more from $150 to $200. Take out will start at $300 for 2 hrs but I was able to get it down to $180. Towards the end of a shift, they get desperate and prices can drop quickly.
Having lived in the US, Sergio at 69 club speaks English at 69 club: 631-125-1477. He seems upstanding and serves his club well. This sort of deportee, who worked in the US for years, is not hard to find—they can sometimes speak English very well and get our culture better.
Each club will often be many more girls than customers and the Mexicans there will often not hire (they may not have the money for more than drinks), but that doesn’t mean the servers (pimps) will start with reasonable prices for the girls. The servers inside will attempt to build a business relationship with you to the exclusion of the other servers. They do provide good service. After getting you a drink, it will only take a few minutes before they start leading girls by the hand to sit with you and trying to clench a deal. It is hard to tell them that you just want to watch and select yourself. At your request, they will try very hard to find your match to any criteria you desire. They will also tell you frankly which girls give better service than others, who has a sweeter personality, etc.
If your preference doesn't currently exist in the club, most servers will try to convince you of the girls they know outside the club and say quietly they have zillions of girls on the cell phones waiting to meet you outside the clubs. (Be forewarned: Unless they just ask the streetwalker next to you, it takes forever for them to contact the girl, for the girl to find a babysitter, for the girl to get a taxi, for the taxi to get lost and finally arrive, for you to see whether the girl even appeals to you, for the negotiation phase to start, and to get to it.)
I was the only customer in Club 69 during the afternoon; 2 of eight or so girls were nice. In Bolerio, there were about eight girls, none of whom attracted me, but Mexicans seem to like more meaty and busty, while I prefer little SE Asian girls or Mexican substitutes for them. I saw the facade of Lust, but don't think it was open. On the west, Obsessions generally had 2–3 of eight or more attractive girls—my favorite. Quickly, I stopped wasting my time surveying all the options and just went there first, if I didn’t want to deal with the time required to get a pimp to do something.
PIMPS
This can be the cheapest option, if one negotiates well. It can be time consuming and irritating. It seems somewhat hit or miss, and one can loose a lot of money. You don’t have a club to go back to and complain, either.
These pimps are all over the place. Almost every guy, servers in the clubs to massage managers to pimps to taxi drivers to bums, become pimps, if they perceive you are a single guy. If asked in confidence, very few will say they won't do a deal outside the business they serve.
These pimps can find someone immediately, if you're desperate (usually they just go to a streetwalker or call a neighbor next to their apartment in the area); but, to get a better selection according to your taste, it can take hours: They call, the girl negotiates, finds a baby sitter, gets a taxi, etc., and it's all in "southern time zone" fashion—that is they don’t worry about fast service or arriving on time. Anywhere in the area, you will be befriended by them, esp. if you don't look determined and don't meet eyes when walking. I could merely be eating breakfast, and a mexican highschool student flirting with two highschool girls, for instance, turned around and asked me directly if I “wanted to have fun” and gave me his cell phone number.
Tony (Chalango) works for Obsession generally. He is posted south of the club on the west corner after about 8PM, but also at other times. He will work at any time of the day, if you have his contact number. He seems a little slimy and drinks, but he is hardworking and can deliver. In the end, Tony seems honest; and, according to other reviewers, he is the best. I initially had bad results with him several times (probably from communication), but one good experience at the end with him. He has a range of girls, from the seasoned professionals to the newer to the profession. He does not always hit the mark with your type, but got better with time.
There are other guys who you get to know, such as Ceser. They are pimps, yes, but end up being employed by one of the clubs, often. There is quite a nice, reliable guy I will mention elsewhere, who tries very hard, delivers, and so forth, but isn’t really part of this street pimp network—more of a family man.
MASSAGE PARLORS
Of the establishments, these are the cheapest options and require little negotiation for a decent price: Pretty straightforward. They generally have some of the sweetest girls but the least attractive. Prices are something like 200 pesos for the house and 400–600 for the girl, totalling around 800 pesos for 1 hr w/massage, room, and full service included. One doesn't need to rent a hotel room and one doesn’t leave a trail for others to discover you’ve been “active” on your travels.
I liked the guys working at Osiris, south of Obsessions. Jose, there, is an especially nice and sincere guy. He makes a good offer right off, tries hard, and delivers. He’ll let you interact with the girls extensively to see what you think and accepts your decision if you don’t like the selections. He is mostly a manager, not a street pimp. He does know nice girls who don’t work professionally.
STREET WALKERS (GIRLS)
Very few street walkers exist, perhaps because of the high local police presence. They will disappear when the Federales (state police) drive by. Independent girls are scared of the latter. There were only two I saw during the week (both just south of Obsessions), and they were there every night. Many available and generally unattractive girls clubbing can be found duty in Regis Bar and Bora Bora (kind of fat girls who hang out in this desolate place), along with massage girls and some club girls off duty (but available). The price should be around $80/1 hr for a girl or lower; as it turns out, this will be the price with a pimp. Nearly all girls are managed by pimps; I was never able to do any direct negotiation with girls.
After the first meeting, girls will often give their cell (if they liked you) or even ask for yours: I suspect one can then do direct dealing with the girl to mutual benefit. I did not try, as I was there in Nogales only a few days. After returning to the US, one girl has written me several times to let me know where and how to contact her—and she is hot! Another sweetie, an available non-professional, also did the same after meeting me once.
NOTE
This border town is controlled by two mafias, who are in a truce. The train tracks are the dividing point. Don't get messed up with them. Don't go up into the hills, without protection--and I don't mean the stuff against STDs. Directly put: You have a mafia member who wants to show you around. (I did not take up that offer I was given--and he was willing only to go half way up for me to take a few photos and then return.) Once again, I can say from first-hand experience, this can be a dangerous place.
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