Why A Yes Vote For The Iran Nuclear Deal Is A No-Brainer

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by herfacechair

In order to identify me as being "stupid", you have to actually prove it. Neither the opposition, nor you, have done so.

We don't need to. You're doing a terrific job of that yourself.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

He's the motherfucking president and you should approach him on your goddamn knees.

Really, like you did Bush, did you bow before the President then? Or is it only the black Presidents were suppose to bow before.

[andymarksman]

Originally Posted by herfacechair

And, a former member of Saddam's own circle:

Retired General Georges Sada was a senior ranking Iraqi Airforce General. His seniority put him within Saddam's circles. According to him, his pilots carried out emergency evacuation on the WMD in the months leading up to the war:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182932,00.html

"General, when did you come to the United States?

GEORGE SADA, AUTHOR, "SADDAM'S SECRETS": Well, I came two years ago.

HANNITY: And up to that point, you were in Iraq?

SADA: Yes, I was in Iraq.

HANNITY: And you were Saddam Hussein's top military advisor?

SADA: Yes, I was No. 2 in the air force.

HANNITY: And how many years did you work under him?

SADA: I worked since the revolution of 1968.

HANNITY: From the beginning?

HANNITY: Some people say they were destroyed. Did we still have them leading up to the invasion?

SADA: No, he had a very good organization that Saddam was created to show some of them but to continue to hide.

HANNITY: So he had them.

SADA: Yes.

HANNITY: Where were they? And were they moved and where?

SADA: Well, up to the year 2002, 2002, in summer, they were in Iraq. And after that, when Saddam realized that the inspectors are coming on the first of November and the Americans are coming, so he took the advantage of a natural disaster happened in Syria, a dam was broken. So he -- he announced to the world that he is going to make an air bridge...

HANNITY: You know for a fact he moved these weapons to Syria?

SADA: Yes.

HANNITY: How do you know that?

SADA: I know it because I have got the captains of the Iraqi airway that were my friends, and they told me these weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria.

BECKEL: How did he move them, general? How were they moved?

SADA: They were moved by air and by ground, 56 sorties by jumbo, 747, and 27 were moved, after they were converted to cargo aircraft, they were moved to Syria."

General Sada was relieved of his command right after the end of the First Gulf War, and has not been employed again by Saddam thereafter. Now don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that he has ulterior motives to make things up. What I mean to convey is that as a private Iraqi citizen, Sada plainly doesn't possess the firsthand intelligence regarding operations of such gravity. Since he never actually witnessed the alleged airlifts, all he got is the secondhand information, or "hearsay," courtesy of his "friends," who had participated in those clandestine operations.

Without further corroboration from the participating flight captains, Sada's allegation is and remains, an allegation.

[andymarksman]

Originally Posted by herfacechair;1057162738
Iraq who had no WMD's,

Wrong. Sarin, Mustard, and Blister agents, all chemical agents, hence, WMD, were used post invasion against the US, coalition, and Iraqi forces. They were used throughout the Iraq War.

The mere fact that Sarin, Mustard, and Blister agents existed, and were used against our forces, is proof that WMDs were in Iraq, and that Iraq HAD weapons of mass destruction, as we've argued.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html

Just curious, any of those 4,400 fine U.S. servicemen and women who paid the ultimate price in Iraq are attributed to Saddam's WMD?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...bush-was-right

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by WTF

How is it provable that there was a better deal possible?

I can play this game better than you and have proven it over and over.

Because other negotiators weren't brought in. Because we didn't walk away from the table. Because you could smell the fear of failure in Obama and Kerry.

Hardly. But again, you like to keep your own scorecard you moronic buffoon.



(BKTLS4E)

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Because other negotiators weren't brought in. Because we didn't walk away from the table. Because you could smell the fear of failure in Obama and Kerry.

Hardly. But again, you like to keep your own scorecard you moronic buffoon.



(BKTLS4E)

How come you didn't mention the smell of fear on Putin, Merkel, Cameron and others, turdfly.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Because other negotiators weren't brought in. Because we didn't walk away from the table. Because you could smell the fear of failure in Obama and Kerry.



(BKTLS4E)

That proves nothing , except you have a huge double standard and you're foolish.

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by herfacechair

flghtr65: Iran will be able to produce a nuclear weapon after 15 years. On Page 26, Item #25, The item reads that Iran cannot produce or purchase highly enriched uranium-235 at (20% concentration) or plutonium for 15 years. After 15 years this restriction is lifted.

From the text of the agreement:

"Iran will begin phasing out its IR-1 centrifuges in 10 years. During this period, Iran will keep its enrichment capacity at Natanz at up to a total installed uranium enrichment capacity of 5060 IR-1 centrifuges. Excess Centrifiges and enrichmen t-related infrastructure at Natanz will be stored under IAEA continuous monitoring, as specified in Annex I." -- Page 6 of 159 of the Iran nuclear agreement.

What's the big deal about IR-1 centrifuges?

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles...el-collection/



Based on what the Iranians are willing to admit to, and what is suspected, the IR-1 is centerpiece in their suspected nuclear program. Without the IR-1, no nuclear weapon... unless you're willing to entertain the reality that exists in 3rd world countries and what they're willing to do relative to what is traditionally done by governments and by western civilization.

They must start dismantling their IR-1 centrifuges in 10 years. Many of the, "Iran will not seek.... " Comments have a shelf life of 15 years. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they're estimating that it'd take up to 5 years to completely phase out these centrifuges? And it so happens that they're limiting Iran for 15 years because the negotiators anticipate that the Iranians "wouldn't" have any centrifuges by that time?

Which brings us to my question...

How the holy God dammed fuck, based on your own arguments and the above facts, as well as the contradictory comments you made as recorded in my last reply to you regarding this, are they going to generate a nuclear weapon?

Unless, you're willing to look at the reality of what people in 3rd World countries are willing, and able, to do relative to what governments traditionally do? Again:

Which brings me back to my earlier question to you. WHERE, in the TEXT of the agreement, does it specifically state that the objective of the agreement is to prevent Iran from detonating a nuclear bomb until after 15 years? WHERE?

flghtr65: There are only two substances that can be used to make an Atomic Bomb like the ones used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The substances are:
U-235 at enriched at 20% or Plutonium. Jackie S, talked about this in one of his posts.

And like I said throughout this thread. The agreement is based on what the Iranians are willing to admit, and what they're been verified to have. It's not based on what the Iranians aren't willing to admit to having. Also, its success depends on the Iranians being 100% honest, as well as they're willingness to restrict themselves to what's in the agreement.

Outside of what they're willing to admit to having, and outside of what the inspectors know exists, the agreement is meaningless, and doesn't impact when the Iranians would ultimately detonate their first nuclear bombs.

flghtr65: After 15 years Iran can try to purchase these substances or try to make it themselves from the Uranium ore that they have in the ground.

And create a nuclear bomb with what, assuming that we're in a perfect world and the agreement captures everything that exists, and the Iranians were honest, and will abide completely by the agreement? By the time 15 years rolls around, assuming that we're in a perfect world, the Iranians would've phased out all of their IR-1s. That's what I got from going through the text of the agreement.

If you go through the document, you'd find that they attempted to set things up to prevent Iran from ever detonating a nuclear bomb. After they assume that the Iranians wouldn't have enrichment capability, or enough of it to create a nuclear bomb, of course they're going to put down, "for 15 years."

Perhaps I'll find the text about the number of kitchen sinks that we have to send to Iran before I come across the one that says that the intent of this deal was to push out their ability to detonate a nuclear bomb sometime after 15 years.


Based on what the Iranians are willing to admit to, and what is suspected, the IR-1 is centerpiece in their suspected nuclear program. Without the IR-1, no nuclear weapon... unless you're willing to entertain the reality that exists in 3rd world countries and what they're willing to do relative to what is traditionally done by governments and by western civilization.

They must start dismantling their IR-1 centrifuges in 10 years. Many of the, "Iran will not seek...." Comments have a shelf life of 15 years. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they're estimating that it'd take up to 5 years to completely get rid of these centrifuges? And it so happens that they're limiting Iran for 15 years because the negotiators anticipate that the Iranians wouldn't have any centrifuges by that time?

Which brings us to my question...

How the holy God dammed fuck, based on your own arguments and the above facts, as well as the contradictory comments you made as recorded in my last reply to you regarding this, are they going to generate a nuclear weapon?

Unless, you're willing to look at the reality of what people in 3rd World countries are willing, and able, to do relative to what governments traditionally do? Again:

Which brings me back to my earlier question to you. WHERE, in the TEXT of the agreement, does it specifically state that the objective of the agreement is to prevent Iran from detonating a nuclear bomb until after 15 years? WHERE?

HFC, you didn't win anything. You are ignorant of physics and can't comprehend what the document is saying.

Facts:

1. You can enrich uranium with any centrifuge. You don't have to use the most efficient model. If you use a model that is less efficient, it will just take longer to do.

2. On page 7 Item #15 of the agreement. Iraq is NOT allowed to enrich Uranium past 3.23% P-235. This is a significant restriction. You cannot make a nuclear bomb unless Uranium is enriched to 20%.

3. The Natrnaz facility which has most of the centrifuges and the nuclear reactor will be monitored in real time 24/7 to make sure uranium is not enriched past 3.23%. The USA is not trusting Iran. If we did the USA would not monitor the facility.

3. On page 26 Item #25 of the agreement. Iran will be ALLOWED to enrich Uranium to 20% concentration and above after 15 years from when the agreement goes into effect.

The agreement pushes out Iran's ability to make a nuclear weapon for 15 years from the wording of page 26 Item #25. Any attempt by Iran to enrich uranium past 3.23 % prior to 15 years from the start of the agreement would be a violation.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/doc...ear-deal/1651/

[Rey Lengua]

Originally Posted by flghtr65

HFC, you didn't win anything. You are ignorant of physics and can't comprehend what the document is saying.

Facts:

1. You can enrich uranium with any centrifuge. You don't have to use the most efficient model. If you use a model that is less efficient, it will just take longer to do.

2. On page 7 Item #15 of the agreement. Iraq is NOT allowed to enrich Uranium past 3.23% P-235. This is a significant restriction. You cannot make a nuclear bomb unless Uranium is enriched to 20%.

3. The Natrnaz facility which has most of the centrifuges and the nuclear reactor will be monitored in real time 24/7 to make sure uranium is not enriched past 3.23%. The USA is not trusting Iran. If we did the USA would not monitor the facility.

3. On page 26 Item #25 of the agreement. Iran will be ALLOWED to enrich Uranium to 20% concentration and above after 15 years from when the agreement goes into effect.

The agreement pushes out Iran's ability to make a nuclear weapon for 15 years from the wording of page 26 Item #25. Any attempt by Iran to enrich uranium past 3.23 % prior to 15 years from the start of the agreement would be a violation.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/doc...ear-deal/1651/

Lurch Kerry....is that you ? Still trying to sell that BS ?

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Really, like you did Bush, did you bow before the President then? Or is it only the black Presidents were suppose to bow before.

Only the black ones, everyone knows that, you fucking shitass.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Rey Lengua

Lurch Kerry....is that you ? Still trying to sell that BS ?

Haven't you found any landscaping jobs yet? Back to the gloryhole with your punk ass.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Because other negotiators weren't brought in. Because we didn't walk away from the table. Because you could smell the fear of failure in Obama and Kerry.

Hardly. But again, you like to keep your own scorecard you moronic buffoon.



(BKTLS4E)

What exactly does the fear of failure smell like?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

What exactly does the fear of failure smell like?

Sorta like you smell when a mad rabid snarling junkyard dog wanders into your gloryhole stall....
.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Sorta like you smell when a mad rabid snarling junkyard dog wanders into your gloryhole stall....
.

I notice you haven't addressed my question in the other thread, you gutless coward. I thought no one would dare to do business with Iran and now we learn they were buying HP printers like candy and yet you contended that Russia would have nothing to do with them because of the sanctions. Lying cocksucker.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

I notice you haven't addressed my question in the other thread, you gutless coward. I thought no one would dare to do business with Iran and now we learn they were buying HP printers like candy and yet you contended that Russia would have nothing to do with them because of the sanctions. Lying cocksucker.

You suck at baiting people, dipshit. You're too much of a gutless coward to quote me. I never said "no one would dare to do business with Iran". Nor did I say "Russia would have nothing to do with them because of the sanctions". You're making things up again, sewer rat. That's a polite way of saying YOU are the lying cocksucker. You lie so often it's impossible to correct all of your lies. That's why none of your so-called freelance writing jobs has ever lasted. The fact-checkers always get you fired. Now why don't you slap some vasoline on your busted rectum, go back and re-read my actual posts, and enjoy getting yourself reamed all over again!

.