Does videotaping a session make it legal??

[normalguy44]

I was watching a documentary on porn and how a lot of companies are setting up shop in Miami. One thing they mentioned briefly was the fact that paying girls to do porn is legal because it is not illegal to be paid to have sex on camera. Was wondering if this is true?? Then one would think if you videotaped your session with a provider then there would be nothing illegal about it. Interested in your thoughts....

[zeejoe]

Fine point of law for your very expensive lawyer to bring up at your trial and fail miserably about six months after you're arrested anyways.

[@rlo726]

May be true in Florida...

[cmore197474]

According to the elves....gfe files..this is true they made their multi million dollar escort... I mean actress/modeling business on this right of free speech amendment. I have mentioned this before wondering why more providers dont allow or encourage this. I am not a lawyer but I would assume the gfegirls have many high priced lawyers. See link below.

www.thegfegirls.com/

[AlbusMilitis]

In Kansas this would be "Promoting Obscenity"....no go.

Btw, no scheme like this would ever work...not even in California, where producing porn is legal. For starters, when you hire somebody to be in a porn movie, there is paperwork involve...dealing with age verification, etc.

But also - expected to get busted early in the session...like the moment you open the door. And don't expect a Perry Mason trial. Expect your name and photo to be plastered all over the internet and a plea deal struck long before you argue the fine points of the law in court.

[cmore197474]

So albus, why does it work for the elves? Do they have the time and money to argue it in court? Or is it that if it is legal, they can't arrest them in the first place?

[zeejoe]

Originally Posted by cmore197474

So albus, why does it work for the elves? Do they have the time and money to argue it in court? Or is it that if it is legal, they can't arrest them in the first place?

Take a lot of legal advice from agency girls, do ya? I'm sure they've got that whole Mann Act thing beat- the rest of the system is just keeping it on the down-low.

[Animegamergirl]

There is this thing called "18 U.S.C. 2257 Record Keeping Requirements Compliance Statement". So, if it is legal the person paying and recording the session must understand that there is paperwork that you must have on record or else you can be busted. If you are not 2257 compliant then instead of just simple local charges you could actually be facing Federal charges. This could land you in a federal prison for up to 5 years and any fines associated with it.

Usually the 2257 falls on to the ownership of the copyright to the video. Most of the time the copyright defaults to the person who is actually recording the session so if it is your video camera and you are recording the session then you and not the agency has to be 2257 compliant. If the agency sends over their own video camera as well as someone to operate it then they own the rights and therefore they need to be 2257 compliant and that means they also need your information as well since you would also be in the video. It is up to them on whether or not to give or sell you a copy of the video.

If they do own the right then they can also sell the video to whomever they want just like you would be able to do if you own the copyright. Of course this can be avoided with the proper contract in place.

If all of this is legal I think that many Providers might not offer this out of fear it might end up on the internet and once something is on the internet it is damn near impossible to get it off. I think the saying is "getting something off the internet is like trying to get pee out of a swimming pool".

As for the agency in question I can only assume that they have the money and lawyers to make this more legal than the average joe. They probably have a whole system in place to make sure that they are following any law in place and keeping up with the 2257. The fact that they are an agency probably helps out a lot.

An individual is not an agency so I am going to assume that the courts would probably not even listen to the argument of "I was producing a porn movie under the 1st amendment". Even if they did they could require you to produce the proper 2257 requirements and if you couldn't then you would be facing federal charges.

I am no lawyer but I do have some experience with the 2257 compliance requirements.

[Guest042316-1]

IDK the law/regardless of whether videotaping makes it legal, how many providers are going to allow it?

[cmore197474]

Zeejoe, not taking advice from anyone, I just asked why does it work fir the elves? a question that nobody can seem to answer definitively. I dont think the elves keep anything on the down low as they advertise on backpage everytime they are here about their service and have been in business for over 10 years. They don't seem concerned where their videos end up as they allow you to record and take it out the door. The op question is... Is it legal? There is one good argument that rules need to be followed, but even that conotates that if they are followed, however diffucult it may be, that it would be legal. There are a few opinions that it would be a bad idea to do it from a clients sude of the camera. So I guees the thing I am getting from all this is that it takes more than just a video camera, and the elves cover everything else for a person?

[BottomFeederKC]

Miami has been new new San Franando Valley for many years.

[cmore197474]

Bottom feeder. I dont understand. Could you explain please

[BigDeal]

Originally Posted by cmore197474

Bottom feeder. I dont understand. Could you explain please

The porn industry is moving alot of itself to Miami...due to new Ca laws requiring the use of condoms

[quest4sin]

Not sure what the laws around here are about making porn videos. I'm no lawyer and certainly not giving legal advice here but from what I have read. I'm not sure it makes a difference in terms of the legality whether you take pictures or video tape during a meeting. Again, from what I have read, if a case can be made that you are or have offered to pay or provide something of value in return for sex acts you can and will likely be arrested for solicitation/prostitution, pretty basic. Also, to my undertanding it makes no difference if you actually engage in such activity. The intent and transaction details are enough to land you in some hot water. State laws are pretty easy to Google and can help provide insight. Plus, if you did tape it you just created some great/additional evidence to be used against you as evidence or leverage at the very least.

Food for thought...to my understanding it is not illegal pay a lady to take nude photos of her... That's why I'm there anyway...

This has been covered more extensively in other threads and perhaps could/should be a stand alone thread but in the "for what it's worth" category. Here are some of my thoughts around safety and keeping out of trouble or a least attempting to minimize the amount of potential trouble you could create for yourself. I'd love to hear the opinions of others on some of their ideas. Refreshers are always good.

- Never tie money or anything of value to the receipt of sex acts in ANY form of communication. Basically, money should never have to be spoken of, period.
- If you get a bad vibe at any point for God sake walk away. That goes for ladies and gents.
- I prefer outcall. Feels safer somehow but that's just me and I could be wrong.
- Use a separate phone for the hobby. One that is password protected and has encryption capabilities (iPhones do not have encryption capabilty). Phones without these capabilities allow LE to very easily access information you might prefer they don't. Even if a phone has a password they can pretty easily bypass it. If they do but the phone is encrypted, they get gibberish. You need both, password protection and encryption. Which is a hard if not impossible combo to find with "disposable" phones.
- I'd consider using a different computer as well with the same capabilities and good over writing antivirus software that you run often. Goes to my comment below around "why make it easy" for LE.
- Don't keep/store an address book or photos of providers on your devices. If you need to contact them that info is available elsewhere.
- Avoid using your "real" anything in the hobby...name, email address, phone etc..
- Never bring anything illegal with you (drugs, firearms etc...) Actually, even if you have a permit to carry of firearm don't bring it or even leave it in your car etc... It can only complicate things. If you feel like to you need to have it you should probably be passing on the situation anyway.
- Don't be under the influence. Many ladies don't like it and it can only complicate things if LE ends up being involved at any point including the drive to and from.
- Stay aware and keep your head on a swivel at all times.
- If its an incall situation do your best to ensure the room/location is locked, secure, and has nobody but you two in it immediately upon arrival.
- Do your homework and stick with the reputable providers that have a history, reviews etc...Chasing around every pretty picture on Back Page is a path to certain trouble and overall disappointment. If they don't have profiles and reviews on ECCIE or P411 I move on but that's just me.
- Have the phone number/business card of a lawyer with you at all times. Perhaps, consider paying for some time with them to get some real advise around these topics. It's money well spent.
- Don't bring any more personal items with you than are needed. Basically, id, some walking around money and a credit card, the basics.
- Don't bring sexually related items like condoms, toys etc... In my opinion that's not your responsibility and can go to intent. I've recently had a lady ask me if I brought any of these items. I so no and left. She offered to run to the store and I was like umm no thanks bye bye. Yeah, I'm gonna sit here and wait for you to do this, LOL. Not to mention that in my mind speaks directly to the quality of this person and demonstrates how ignorant/foolish they are. Kinda seems like a photographer without a camera anyway...geez
- Never answer questions or have "conversations" w/LE about anything, period. Did I mention NEVER & ANYTHING? To my understanding you are not required to answer question or have discussions with LE before and certainly not after you are arrested. Nothing you say is going to change what they are going to do anyway so please please please just shut up. Provide your identification and ask to call your lawyer early and often. The less they have, know or hear on/from you the better off you'll be in the long run. My guess is they lean toward arrest and prosecution of the "easier" cases. Don't make it easy. Provide your identification, shut your mouth, ask to call your lawyer as well as asking if you are free to go early and often. Also it can't hurt to state early and often that you do not consent to searches of any kind which of course includes your person or property. LE is pretty much going to do what they're going to do no matter what. So, again, don't make it easier for them and limit your defense options in the process. It cannot hurt to ask these question and make these requests early and often. It likely won't save your bacon completely but some of these items sure can't hurt your position down the road after you've shut up and got you lawyer engaged.
- I know a lot of ladies that will only talk live on the phone, no text. I guess I can see their perspective but from the other side of the fence. A recording of a conversation feels more risky than a text exchange. It can pretty easily be made clear that it's you/them on a recording of a voice conversation. A little more challenging to attain the data and prove it was you on the other end of a text.
- Avoid ladies that don't post rates for your photo sessions. That means you have to talk about money and talking about money is pretty much at the top of the no no list.
- Some very reputable ladies require that you provide your personal information. Sometimes even including where you work, live etc... Again, I suppose I can see their side of it but any fool that would provide that kind of information is just that, a fool. For me, I'm passing on that even if that means I miss out on someone great!
- Consider not driving or park your car somewhere close by and consider taking a cab to and from a photo shoot.

On another note, get a load of his one. I met a lady recently while I was out of town. We met and she seemed nice enough and all, more than acceptable from a physical stand point as well and I didn't get any bad vibes, initially. Once we were face to face and during our pre-chat conversation. I received her life story and in the process she mentioned that she was engaged and that he was a Federal Agent. Umm, a tiny explosion went off in my head. I stopped her immediately and said excuse me did I hear that correctly. Your fiancé is a what? She indicated that he was some sort of Director within DHS but it was nothing to worry about. OMG LOL really. Not that I believed that BS anyway but that's immaterial. Then she mentioned that someone had driven her as she was having car trouble, uh-huh... bad vibes beginning to set in to say the least. I asked if he had driven her this evening and she said yes.

I said so let me be clear on this...you're telling me your fiancé is a Federal Law Enforcement agent (no matter the branch) and he's in the parking lot right now? She's like, yeah I'm just being honest and its not a problem. I said thank you for your time, it was nice to meet you and goodbye. Lol, I mean really? Firstly, I don't really want to hear about your real world relationship status and I most certainly don't want to hear/learn that you are connected in any way to LE. For God sake I could not believe what I was hearing. For the record I did do my homework and she was on P411 and had ECCIE reviews. Goes to show you that there is no foolproof method. I tell the story as I find it somewhat funny and because I can't for the life of me figure out what she was thinking saying all that stuff. Perhaps as we had never met she was trying to make sure I watched my Ps and Qs or was worried in some way. No matter, stupid conversation which ended the meeting immediately. Is that crazy or what? As mentioned, I think it was all a load of crap and that she was in fact the real deal but still...really? Why would anyone take such a risk after hearing something like that? Even if they are the real deal. Someone who does that is simply too ignorant/foolish for my standards anyway.

Anyway...morale of the story is that obviously safety, discretion and risk mitigation are paramount in the hobby.