Bitcoin Payments?

[agentx]

Perhaps this has been discussed, but was wondering if any providers in our area are using (or contemplating using) Bitcoin for payments - seems like the privacy of the transactions (other than purchasing the initial Bitcoins) would be interesting.

There is currency risk and potential political risk but it might be an interesting altnerative means of paying for sessions. Thoughts?

[tron]

What's wrong with cash? Seems like bitcoin will be more of a hassle.

[FS_ITC]

Agreed. Cash is king and leaves no trail. But I guess it pays to take whatever the buyer wants to pay.

[Precious_b]

I remember reading a review of a San Antonio girl (who goes to Austin) doing this.

But the reviewer was a guy always hyping himself (now banned.)

If I remember, i'll post. But i'm sure a *SEARCH* will bring it up.

[Tony Gambino]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

I remember reading a review of a San Antonio girl (who goes to Austin) doing this.

But the reviewer was a guy always hyping himself (now banned.)

If I remember, i'll post. But i'm sure a *SEARCH* will bring it up.

because bit coins are for retards, no gov't backing, and when the shit hits the fan...completely worthless...any provider trade for tom thumb gas miles? same difference....an entire generation of American's is suspect.....lord help us......

[agentx]

Not sure who the 'retards' are - those that hold bitcoins or those that hold dollars that are essentially worthless (the total obligations of the US government exceed the total GDP of this country several times over - not promising). And gold/silver was confiscated in the past.

As I said in my first post, there is currency and political risk for Bitcoin, but I have very smart friends who have profited greatly from the Bitcoin/US$ exchange over the past few years.

Cash is evidence - will be used against you if you are detained for P4P.

Bitcoin is essentially anonymous, would be difficult to confiscate (due to decentralized and international records of those that hold them) and can be used to exchange them into other national currencies (if you bail out when the SHTF).

(And PreciousB, not really looking for a review of a provider using them, but wanted to see what providers in general think of the idea...thanks)

Seems like a good option for P4P when anonymity is wanted.

[tron]

Originally Posted by agentx

Bitcoin is essentially anonymous, would be difficult to confiscate (due to decentralized and international records of those that hold them) and can be used to exchange them into other national currencies (if you bail out when the SHTF)..

Yeah.... ask that Silk Road guy that was on trial recently how anonymous Bitcoin is. It does leave a trail.

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by tron

Yeah.... ask that Silk Road guy that was on trial recently how anonymous Bitcoin is. It does leave a trail.

Some of the details aren't public yet, but the indications are that they tracked him down via tricks that had nothing to do with bitcoins.

He wasn't really smart enough about his security measures when web surfing. One of the web sites he went to did something that exposed his IP address.

At least that was the story, but we don't know if it's the "real" truth.

However, bitcoins aren't as anonymous as many people think they are.

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by Tony Gambino

because bit coins are for retards, no gov't backing, and when the shit hits the fan...completely worthless...any provider trade for tom thumb gas miles? same difference....an entire generation of American's is suspect.....lord help us......

You'd be dumb to put all of your retirement savings in bitcoin.

However, they are OK for keeping some amount of money you could afford to lose, as long as you evaluate and manage the risk properly.

Think of bitcoins as being like a bit like the cash you keep in your wallet. You don't want to keep too much of your cash there because you could lose it or have it stolen.

You choose how much to keep there based on convenience, how much you might need to spend at one time, the risk of loss, your total cash reserves, etc.

They're also OK as blatant speculation, as long as you realize they could be worthless at any time. They're a bit like buying many stock options. You can make money, but they can also drop to zero in an instant. Stock options aren't just for retards.
Heck, even stocks can drop to zero.

Don't put too many of your eggs in one electronic basket.

BTW, they're not as private as many people think.

[agentx]

Gneiss, I'm guessing with the right hack Bitcoin might be less than 100% anon - but wouldn't it be generally safer for privacy than cash in a P4P scenario?

I'm thinking payment from smartphone to the provider's smartphone (after the deed). Seems better than handing over a few Benjamin's 😎

[tron]

Originally Posted by agentx

I'm guessing with the right hack Bitcoin might be less than 100% anon - but wouldn't it be generally safer for privacy than cash in a P4P scenario?

Maybe not. In Ross Ulbricht's (Silk Road) case, it sounds like they were able to trace his bitcoin activity by confiscating his notebook. If whatever device you are using to convert bitcoins or the provider you see has her device (notebook/phone/?), were confiscated, then you could be exposed.

I am not sure that will be any less exposure than it they get into PMs, but it would show payment, which could be very incriminating.

I see 2 issues with cash: suppose you go to a bank branch and withdraw $300 in 100s, see a provider, and they happen to use the same bank you do - and deposit the same 100s within a couple of days. If there is any tracking of serial numbers, then that might be problematic. If you don't use the same bank, then this is probably not an issue.

What could make it get ugly is if the provider did something that made a teller suspicious about the cash, and they filed a Suspicious Activity Report. Then you might have a problem.

It's unlikely that a SAR would be triggered by providers on ECCIE unless they a HDHs due to the amount usually involved ~ $10k or more.

As for Bitcoin being safe, read up on Mt. Gox, and note the 'around 850,000 bitcoins missing' part. Sounds like around 200,000 were eventually found.

[Precious_b]

Agent, that is an interesting idea of use. I'm sure that would give a few lawyers some hours to burn if the scenario came up. I'm sure you can find some that would do bitcoin
I was only going to post the link review so you could read the name of the person and I had a source to quote.

GG, the Silk Road guy was nabbed because the FBI (?) had one of their guys embedded as a Mod on his site. And they were able to nab him because he was using wifi at a library that was able to be tracked by a link the laptop he was using was accessed. Didn't read the book but heard an interview with the guy who involved with catching him.

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by tron

As for Bitcoin being safe, read up on Mt. Gox, and note the 'around 850,000 bitcoins missing' part. Sounds like around 200,000 were eventually found.

In the Mt. Gox case, it doesn't appear that there was any insecurity in the bitcoin protocol. People transferred their bitcoins to the Mt. Gox exchange and they got stolen from there. It's like putting your gold coins in a bank vault and having them stolen by bank employees or a break in.

It turned out that Mt. Gox wasn't a well run organization. Instead of being the "First national bank of bitcoin," it was more like "Billy Bob's lawn care and bitcoin exchange."

If you put your bitcoins in an exchange, they're vulnerable to security problems or insider theft at the exchange. If you keep them on your own computer, they can be stolen if your computer is hacked.

There's also the possibility that someone will break the math behind the bitcoin protocol or even that there's a "backdoor" built in to it.

To my mind, the biggest risk is that everyone will simply decide bitcoin is no longer the thing and the price will drop suddenly. Think of the Dutch tulip bulb bubble or Enron stock.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of bitcoin. However, it's neither as good or bad as the hype on either side.

It's useful for some things, but not necessarily safe, especially if you don't know what you're doing. Don't put anything into bitcoin that you can't afford to lose.

If you're putting your monthly hooker fund money into bitcoin, the biggest thing you risk is no pussy for a month.

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by tron

Maybe not. In Ross Ulbricht's (Silk Road) case, it sounds like they were able to trace his bitcoin activity by confiscating his notebook. If whatever device you are using to convert bitcoins or the provider you see has her device (notebook/phone/?), were confiscated, then you could be exposed.

Once they confiscate your notebook, you're probably screwed, but they have to find you first.

What I read was that they were able to find him because he went to a web site with a CAPTCHA that worked around his VPN/proxy/Tor type scheme for hiding his IP address. The suggestion was that he wasn't being very smart with his security protocols. My impression was that the CAPTCHA wasn't a hacking tool designed to find IP addresses, just the way a particular CAPTCHA worked.

Of course, the news media and law enforcement are involved, so truth and accuracy are in short supply. LE is being cagey and may very well be spreading misinformation.

If they get to the point where the Gestapo has physical access to your and your computer, you're probably SOL if they want you and know what they're doing.

[Annika]

Originally Posted by tron

What's wrong with cash? Seems like bitcoin will be more of a hassle.