Your tax dollars at work, even if the people who receive them won't

[Roger.Smith]

Welfare could be cut to $0, and the government would still be running a $900 billion dollar yearly deficit. The vast majority of Americans have no idea how much the government spends on what even though that information is public record and easily researched. It's easy to bitch about welfare because it goes to money that people hate for various reasons.

Medicare, Social Security, and Defense eat up the majority of the budget, but neither party will fix it because it's political suicide. Republicans have hated Medicare and SS since FDR. It's funny how John Boehner wants President Obama to show "leadership" on entitlement reform even though he's from the liberal party. Even most Tea Party reps won't go anywhere near Medicare and SS, and that's why nothing will get solved.

Wheretoknow is just a silly racist fighting his pathetic race war online.

[Guest030824]

http://news.yahoo.com/walker-announc...160418725.html

It appears Governor Scott Walker will take a step to straighten out the welfare system.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Roger.Smith

Welfare could be cut to $0, and the government would still be running a $900 billion dollar yearly deficit. The vast majority of Americans have no idea how much the government spends on what even though that information is public record and easily researched. It's easy to bitch about welfare because it goes to money that people hate for various reasons.

Medicare, Social Security, and Defense eat up the majority of the budget, but neither party will fix it because it's political suicide. Republicans have hated Medicare and SS since FDR. It's funny how John Boehner wants President Obama to show "leadership" on entitlement reform even though he's from the liberal party. Even most Tea Party reps won't go anywhere near Medicare and SS, and that's why nothing will get solved.

Wheretoknow is just a silly racist fighting his pathetic race war online.

After the sequester, our military has been cut to 1940 levels.

Medicare and Social Security are funded by transfer payments. You are not paying into a fund and taking it out when you retire. People that are still working are paying for those that are retired. The biggest problem is that people are living longer. There have been lots of proposals for fund based retirement programs but all have been rejected by the left.

Much of what is spent for Social Security and Medicare is not retirement related. SSI is included in Social Security just like Medicaid ($430 billion) is included in Medicare. In the last ten years SSI spending has increased by 70%.

The government could save $200 billion a year just by combining duplicate programs.

Our budget should be limited to 17% of GDP. That is what the government should have to work with. I graduated with an accounting degree. What the government uses, they don't teach in college. If businesses used their system, CFOs would fill our prisons.

[str8.2.bbbj]

This whole thread is stupid as fuck. I say that because all the bitching from both sides is pointless. You all say you want less government. You all say that you the government spends too much and you want them to stop. BUT when a candidate comes along with a track record that proves that he is against outrageous government spending, against all the "empireism", and such; you won't support them.

Most of you didn't support Ron Paul in the last election. Most of you don't support Libertairians now. You want these same government schnooks that have been working together to fuck the entire nation for 2 centuries.

Personally, I say fuck the entire government of the US and their enforcers. I don't give a shit about anyone being racist. That's your business. Hell, I'm a little racist too. But don't bitch about what needs to change and then sit on your ass and do the same thing you have been doing to give power to the original problem.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by tucson

http://news.yahoo.com/walker-announc...160418725.html

It appears Governor Scott Walker will take a step to straighten out the welfare system.

I read the article, all he is doing is requiring welfare recipients to take a drug test, and if they fail, offer free rehab and job-training.. why not do that anyway? the article suggests his plan will save the State money.. how?

Originally Posted by EZ.

Our budget should be limited to 17% of GDP. That is what the government should have to work with. I graduated with an accounting degree. What the government uses, they don't teach in college. If businesses used their system, CFOs would fill our prisons.

why 17%? you realize it's over 90% now? what they taught in College is deficit spending will spur massive inflation, followed by stagflation.. really? the deficit has been morbidly high for 15 years.. I remember when the annual deficit was $30 billion, the Republicans were screaming that the economy could not handle that.. now we are at $18 trillion in total.. where is the inflation? how did we create 11 million jobs in the last few years (admittedly many "low-quality" jobs)? fact is, the deficit is merely an accounting entry on the Government ledger.. the doomsayers operate under an unspoken assumption that all or much of the debt can be "called" (cashed in) in a short period of time.. that would be the only way the huge debt could disrupt the economy.. they argue that we are saddling our grandchildren with debt.. nonsense.. it's accounting entries.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

I read the article, all he is doing is requiring welfare recipients to take a drug test, and if they fail, offer free rehab and job-training.. why not do that anyway? the article suggests his plan will save the State money.. how?


why 17%? you realize it's over 90% now? what they taught in College is deficit spending will spur massive inflation, followed by stagflation.. really? the deficit has been morbidly high for 15 years.. I remember when the annual deficit was $30 billion, the Republicans were screaming that the economy could not handle that.. now we are at $18 trillion in total.. where is the inflation? how did we create 11 million jobs in the last few years (admittedly many "low-quality" jobs)? fact is, the deficit is merely an accounting entry on the Government ledger.. the doomsayers operate under an unspoken assumption that all or much of the debt can be "called" (cashed in) in a short period of time.. that would be the only way the huge debt could disrupt the economy.. they argue that we are saddling our grandchildren with debt.. nonsense.. it's accounting entries.

Tran, I don't know where you get your figures 90%????

http://www.supportingevidence.com/Go...over_time.html

We have 93,000,000 people out of work, that have literally given up looking. That is the lowest labor force participation in 90 years. This is the reason why unemployment rate has dropped below 7%. 40% of the employment, last year, was part-time and subsistence employment ..just putting food on the table.

"Debt is only an accounting entry"? We owe this money. Defaulting isn't an option. What if people stopped loaning us money? Japan holds more than a trillion in our debt. That is half of their GDP. Defaulting would destroy their economy along with most of the world. At the very best, if anyone was willing to hold our treasury notes, the interest rates would be outrageous. Countries don't loan money to those with a history of not paying it back. You would see a world wide financial crises that would make 2008 look like a small pump in the road.

The debt has to be paid and yes, it will pass down to your grand children.

[Chung Tran]

my figure was total deficit per GDP, and it's actually 101%... but it doesn't matter.. we owe some of the money, but the US Government owns much of the outstanding treasuries for which the deficit is predicated.. so the deficit is not what it seems.. besides, Fiat Governments don't have the same natural restrictions that Households do, so the "living beyond our means" argument is apples and oranges.

the balanced budget crowd would have kept us in a depression in the early 1930's, and a recession 6 years ago... money supply expansion (AKA budget deficits) are essential to growth.

and we are not saddling our grandchildren with debt.. the debts roll over, each generation only pays the current interest payments that come due.. and if we don't have the money? sell more treasury notes to get cash..

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

my figure was total deficit per GDP, and it's actually 101%... but it doesn't matter.. we owe some of the money, but the US Government owns much of the outstanding treasuries for which the deficit is predicated.. so the deficit is not what it seems.. besides, Fiat Governments don't have the same natural restrictions that Households do, so the "living beyond our means" argument is apples and oranges.

the balanced budget crowd would have kept us in a depression in the early 1930's, and a recession 6 years ago... money supply expansion (AKA budget deficits) are essential to growth.

and we are not saddling our grandchildren with debt.. the debts roll over, each generation only pays the current interest payments that come due.. and if we don't have the money? sell more treasury notes to get cash..

If deficit spending is the answer, why has this been the slowest recovery since the great depression? If Keynesian economics worked, we would be in a boom now.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by EZ.

If deficit spending is the answer, why has this been the slowest recovery since the great depression? If Keynesian economics worked, we would be in a boom now.

it is only a partial answer... without deficit spending we would be in a depression right now. it is unprecedented to have massive deficits, with very low inflation and near zero interest rates.. not to mention sluggish wage growth.

Obama has suggested a large infrastructure jobs bill.. why do the Republicans scoff at that, while holding the oil pipeline project so dear? their project creates a couple of thousand temporary jobs, Obama's would create many times more.. Obama's idea is not unlike the projects in the 1930's, that helped us recover.. along with Keynesian Economics.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

it is only a partial answer... without deficit spending we would be in a depression right now. it is unprecedented to have massive deficits, with very low inflation and near zero interest rates.. not to mention sluggish wage growth.

Obama has suggested a large infrastructure jobs bill.. why do the Republicans scoff at that, while holding the oil pipeline project so dear? their project creates a couple of thousand temporary jobs, Obama's would create many times more.. Obama's idea is not unlike the projects in the 1930's, that helped us recover.. along with Keynesian Economics.

No, we would be much better off. The reason for the lack of inflation is because other currencies were devalued or lost value on their own. The dollar remained strong even with the Fed printing money.

One of the first things Obama and the democratic congress did was the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. Don't you remember the shovel ready jobs program. $850 Billion with no return. Some estimates were that we spent $200,000 for each part time job.

One huge reason for the pipeline is for oil Independence. If we don't build it, it will the shipped by rail and truck at a huge cost and risk to the environment.
The pipeline has bipartisan support.

Here is a study from that bastion of conservative ideas UCLA. It states that FDR prolonged the depression by 7 years:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FD...epression-5409

[Chung Tran]

good point about the currencies, it is a strange phenomena having our deficits accompanied by a strong dollar.. a dollar that seems to be too strong, given the data that came out today. the Roosevelt article is interesting.. I knew that in 1943 he capped wages, which lead to the current health care structure, when businesses began offering health insurance in lieu of wages, to attract workers.

and while I'm not anti-deficit, I am one of Bernanke's harshest critics.. he never saw an economic problem that more money circulating wouldn't cure.. supposedly a big student of the great depression, but a one-trick pony.. this QE crap played out several years ago, regarding anything of value to the economy. and yeah, the shovel-ready jobs idea never took off, but I think it still has potential, if structured properly.

so what would be your ideas to improve the economy? besides the pipeline? there are many people out of the work force, yes, but unemployment is fairly low.. GDP had 3.5% + growth in 4 of the last 5 quarters.. looks like that is over.. what steps did Obama make during the 2008-2009 crisis, that hindered recovery? the shovel-ready jobs didn't happen, but the idea was not embraced in Congress.. the GM bailout? the big bank bailout? GM is doing well, bank profits are not suffering, even if Jamie Diamond complains constantly.

[Guest030824]

Automation has taken it's toll on the number of workers required to build a car or for that matter most other manufacturing. The unions fought automation knowing it would eliminate jobs. The days that a person could graduate from grade school and go to work building cars has passed. Many minorities drop out of school with out an education go directly to welfare or selling drugs. The drug culture is supporting many minority men in one way or another. Crime has enabled the minorities to get the money to purchase drugs to support their habit.
Perhaps if the minorities were forced to learn to be responsible adult workers and show up on time prepared to work the welfare group would diminish.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

good point about the currencies, it is a strange phenomena having our deficits accompanied by a strong dollar.. a dollar that seems to be too strong, given the data that came out today. the Roosevelt article is interesting.. I knew that in 1943 he capped wages, which lead to the current health care structure, when businesses began offering health insurance in lieu of wages, to attract workers.

and while I'm not anti-deficit, I am one of Bernanke's harshest critics.. he never saw an economic problem that more money circulating wouldn't cure.. supposedly a big student of the great depression, but a one-trick pony.. this QE crap played out several years ago, regarding anything of value to the economy. and yeah, the shovel-ready jobs idea never took off, but I think it still has potential, if structured properly.

so what would be your ideas to improve the economy? besides the pipeline? there are many people out of the work force, yes, but unemployment is fairly low.. GDP had 3.5% + growth in 4 of the last 5 quarters.. looks like that is over.. what steps did Obama make during the 2008-2009 crisis, that hindered recovery? the shovel-ready jobs didn't happen, but the idea was not embraced in Congress.. the GM bailout? the big bank bailout? GM is doing well, bank profits are not suffering, even if Jamie Diamond complains constantly.

You mentioned no inflation and now Bernanke. When the fed prints money, it goes to the banks. Our banks have been buying foreign bonds because of the interest rates. At some point, our interest rates will have to increase. All that money will start to come back and then you will see some serious inflation.

2008-2009 not embraced by Congress. The democrats controlled both the House and the Senate.

GM buyout was a mistake. Obama should have allowed GM to go through Chapter 11 bankruptcy (reorganization) . This move was in behalf of the labor unions which would have been forced to take a reduction in benefits. Everyone involved would have gotten a haircut.

As of last year, GM has $27 Billion in underfunded pension plans. GM is only worth about 47 billion. Ford has about $17 billion in underfunded pensions. The administration brokered the deal to sell Chrysler to Fiat which recently moved their headquarters to the UK to avoid our taxes. Last year, the government sold the remaining GM stock at $20 per share less than the stock need to be to break even.

The automobile business is doing well mostly due to the fact that the average car on the road is over 11 years old. Cars today, are much better built but there is an limit. The car business is going to be strong in 2015 but the next slump and Ford and GM are going to be back looking for a handout.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by tucson

Automation has taken it's toll on the number of workers required to build a car or for that matter most other manufacturing. The unions fought automation knowing it would eliminate jobs. The days that a person could graduate from grade school and go to work building cars has passed. Many minorities drop out of school with out an education go directly to welfare or selling drugs. The drug culture is supporting many minority men in one way or another. Crime has enabled the minorities to get the money to purchase drugs to support their habit.
Perhaps if the minorities were forced to learn to be responsible adult workers and show up on time prepared to work the welfare group would diminish.

I have a lot of black and Hispanic friends and they are all responsible members of society. My best friend, in life, was on my team in Vietnam. He had a Masters in Special Education and became the administrator of Head Start for his state. He named his first born after me. He nicknamed him EZ II. He is well on his way to being a fine black man.

[Guest030824]

EZ you speak of one as I also may speak of several. I am talking about the majority that feel getting an education is being white. They can't get a job as they have no discipline and would not keep a job as they can't take direction. I have worked with several blacks that find the idea of arriving on time and ready to work is not some thing they will do. In my work I was responsible to preform the job with out supervision and to respond to customers requests with out consulting my managers. If I was to drive to Tulsa and fix some thing I was expected to complete the job. One technician we had stopped half way there to sleep because he was up drinking all night. In order to meet our contract we had to fly another technician up there then try to locate the missing guy. His excuse was we shouldn't expect him to drive when he needed sleep. The companies response was he should get his sleep on his own time and be prepared for work. He obtained a lawyer that tried to turn the whole thing into a racist thing. In the army every one was held to a high standard that applied to all of us equally. I never in my nine years in the army felt that the guy in the bunk beside me would let me down or not cover my ass when needed. It is not the fact that he was black or brown or white but the fact we all worked together and could count on each other to do their job.