LE Tactic to get guys to admit being customer

[davephx]

Phoenix seems ground zero for all the busts including felonies going after in private consenting sexwork.

I have read many police reports, grand jury indictments, probably cause statements and attended various court hearings.

If one is one fortunate enough to be the target of LE they will often stake out your parking lot watching apartment, home or a massage parlor for often six months recording all the license numbers of cars coming and going.

They also look for any tickets etc. But they will take no action just sitting in lots or watching from across the street (no real crime of course happens in Phoenix).

Then when they raid usually with massive swat team force, (dangerous breasted women), they will charge all the workers with criminal enterprise felonies, merely by "association" even with no evidence of prostitution against most individuals. The license plates tied to the women are enough for probably cause as long as they also have cause like from a UC that a offer for say a HJ was given.

They will also observe customers going into and coming out. LE will follow the guy and look for any minor traffic violation they can find (or any unpaid tickets from running license). Then do a traffic stop and then question the guy showing any web ads, reviews etc of the targeted establishment.

The guy gets scared and perhaps assuring him they will not prosecute him if he "talks", he often admits he paid for sexual services (like a HJ) at the massage parlor, or sex at a companion etc.

The gals are rounded up and bail is often $5000-$10,000 or for any owners usually $100k and in one case $1 million. No one is under aged, no pimps, just normal massage places, tantra "temple" or two gals working together.

One indie gal was raided by SWAT just for escorting without a license. After they broke the down down and open her mother came to bring back the pizza they ordered. Elderly mother had swat team assault rifles pointed at her. She did know of her daughters chosen profession it was only the big guns pointed at her that was a concern !!!

Our tax dollars at work protecting from pleasure sharing of adults.

[Guest062114-5]

WOW, I'm truly disgusted and frightened by all of this. I had no idea it was so bad there. I may have to do some research and get involved. Thank you for taking the time to share the current state of events.

[davephx]

There is a possible solution especially as these tactics spread to other cities often trained by Phoenix officials.

There are good legal arguments based not only on Lawrence vs Texas but more recently a adult case won in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals and that attorney willing and ready to take a consenting adult in private sexworker case. But preferred in the 9th Circuit since even if win State will appeal.

But will take the right case with standing and about $100,000 in legal fees to start.

There are also very good legal arguments now in Maricopa Superior Court case both on the vagueness of Ariz's law and constitutional issues (right to privacy, expression, no laws based on morality etc etc). That case is now in 3rd year and 3rd judge with a trial expected in 2014. Which ever side loses will appeal to 9th Circuit but its a bit odd case vs typical. Has 38 defendants with little evidence of any prostitution but criminal enterprise "association". None have any money but Office of Public Defenders handles and has to on appeal if convicted. Leader has turned down a plea deal for 1.5 years which would be time already served when in jail with $500k and $1 million bail unable to meet. She is ready to fight but again its not typical case (Tantra belief related - Phoenix Goddess Temple)

[Guest062114-5]

Originally Posted by davephx

There is a possible solution especially as these tactics spread to other cities often trained by Phoenix officials.

There are good legal arguments based not only on Lawrence vs Texas but more recently a adult case won in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals and that attorney willing and ready to take a consenting adult in private sexworker case. But preferred in the 9th Circuit since even if win State will appeal.

But will take the right case with standing and about $100,000 in legal fees to start.

There are also very good legal arguments now in Maricopa Superior Court case both on the vagueness of Ariz's law and constitutional issues (right to privacy, expression, no laws based on morality etc etc). That case is now in 3rd year and 3rd judge with a trial expected in 2014. Which ever side loses will appeal to 9th Circuit but its a bit odd case vs typical. Has 38 defendants with little evidence of any prostitution but criminal enterprise "association". None have any money but Office of Public Defenders handles and has to on appeal if convicted. Leader has turned down a plea deal for 1.5 years which would be time already served when in jail with $500k and $1 million bail unable to meet. She is ready to fight but again its not typical case (Tantra belief related - Phoenix Goddess Temple)

Well, I guess I applaud her for wanting to fight. I don't know it feel that way after over 1.5 years in jail...

I be thinking Alford plea for sure, then fight on the outside. But I don't know enough about the situation to make an intelligent choice.

[Guest062114-5]

Void for Vagueness was my go to legal argument in school...invoked when I had nothing better to say, LOL...

[jframe2]

This has been standard SOP for an LE operation for years and years. Drag everybody in with Probable Cause (the traffic infraction) then shake them up and see who will spill.

The best course of action is to be polite, provide basic ID, and ask if you may go. If they take you for processing so be it and then contact an attorney.

[Joe Buck]

Exercise your right to an attorney and keep your mouth shut!

[LazurusLong]

An episode of Dallas SWAT shown on TV several years ago show SWAT raiding the Swedish Institute.

If I remember the episode correctly, the sad part was that the people inside actually barricaded the doors and refused to let them in until they spoke to the owner and after that everyone inside surrendered and hauled off in cuffs.

The episode aired on June 1, 2006.

http://www.tv.com/shows/dallas-swat/episode-9-775234/

They actually rappelled off the roof of that single story building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAsl...74547&index=20

[CountryGentleman35]

You know what really gets me about this?

It's not illegal to take a lady to have a few drinks, the movie and then to dinner; but you spend the same amount of money on a lady for an hour date... And BAM you've broken the law.

Strange logic I know, but I'm a strangely simple kind of guy.

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by CountryGentleman35

You know what really gets me about this?

It's not illegal to take a lady to have a few drinks, the movie and then to dinner; but you spend the same amount of money on a lady for an hour date... And BAM you've broken the law.

Strange logic I know, but I'm a strangely simple kind of guy.

We need dem hooker laws to save our wives, daughters, sisters, and mothers from taking a walk on the dark side! Haha.

[Guest042416]

cg its much deeper than that and lol if u don't get why its illegal hmmm
cant explain it to you.
just think under age and forced to do it
pimps etc

[soldierboy44]

Did you all see the huff post article that escort laws in the Canada have been declared unconstitutional by the courts......but they gave the govt one year to make changes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/wo...rade.html?_r=0

[19Trees]

Soldier Boy

Thanks for heads up to this opinion from Canada

http://scc-csc.lexum.com/decisia-scc...#_Toc374621534

Just skimmed the 71 page opinion and read the judgment. Though its a big (maybe watershed) case, Trees does not think it "swept away" all escort laws.

Rather this case related to the regulation of "nuisances" from "bawdy houses" ... The court said, "It is not a crime to sell sex for money in Canada"... Fantastic. Court left to the Parliament (their Congress) to make new or amend existing laws that relate to these "bawdy houses" ...

Whether Canada completely opens up to prostitution (Amsterdam red light district style?) is an open question and it will likely take years (decades?).

This case is worthy of a 60 Minutes episode even a short film. Its something worth watching into the future. Will Canada become a mecca for sex tourism?

Canadian politics and the sensibilities of its populace are far more progressive than in the USA but this is big positive progress and moves us a bit closer to the ideal: prostitution as an open, legal, safe semi-regulated (not overly regulated or over taxed) industry.

19Trees