Let's Be Rational

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by essence

+1.

Let me go edit my profile....


What is the evidence he was psychotic or on meds?

They're saying he had a form of autism callers Asperger's syndrome. Some people with Aspergers can be very intelligent and even function fairly well but they lack empathy. When the facts come out about the killer I'm sure we'll find that he was profoundly mentally ill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

[Whirlaway]

Look to the media (and anti-gun lobby) to downplay that aspect. Just as they tried in Mj. Nidal Malik shooting (downplayed his radical Islamic beliefs).

;

Originally Posted by joe bloe

They're saying he had a form of autism callers Asperger's syndrome. Some people with Aspergers can be very intelligent and even function fairly well but they lack empathy. When the facts come out about the killer I'm sure we'll find that he was profoundly mentally ill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Good post COG.

"Political posturing" will be part of asking the questions. Unless the solutions don't involve politics (laws, rules, regulations) - which is an impossibility.

I would hope we do ask the difficult questions, and have the difficult debates. There are no easy solutions to this kind of situation.

Politics--as in discussiong different opinions, different legitimate ideas on how to fix things--needs to be part of any way forward. We have to ballance some things we would rather not have to compromise on--privacy & freedom vs safety. We cannot have 100% of all three, and there is no obvious point we will all agree on. That will be a very hard debate.

But the "posturing" part, where any politician would push a solution based more upon how many votes it would get than how many kids it would save, is what I hope we can avoid.

[Whirlaway]

+1; But I don't see how we avoid the posturing...Obama kick-started that off in yesterday's talk IMO.......

Originally Posted by Old-T

I would hope we do ask the difficult questions, and have the difficult debates. There are no easy solutions to this kind of situation.

Politics--as in discussiong different opinions, different legitimate ideas on how to fix things--needs to be part of any way forward. We have to ballance some things we would rather not have to compromise on--privacy & freedom vs safety. We cannot have 100% of all three, and there is no obvious point we will all agree on. That will be a very hard debate.

But the "posturing" part, where any politician would push a solution based more upon how many votes it would get than how many kids it would save, is what I hope we can avoid.

[Old-T]

I suspect you are right--that we can't avoid the posturing. But I can hope.

[Whirlaway]

It has already started Old-T.............Nadler says Obama MUST EXPLOIT SHOOTINGS TO GET GUN CONTROL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...st-exploit-sh/

Originally Posted by Old-T

I suspect you are right--that we can't avoid the posturing. But I can hope.

[essence]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

They're saying he had a form of autism callers Asperger's syndrome. Some people with Aspergers can be very intelligent and even function fairly well but they lack empathy. When the facts come out about the killer I'm sure we'll find that he was profoundly mentally ill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

My wife works in the mental health field in London, and the publics's fear of violence or aggressive behaviour is, in general, not supported by evidence, although some forms of mental illness of course do have an effect, and she often needs strong police support when taking them to hospital. Use of banned substances, even mild ones, can tip them over the edge also.

Anecdotes do not make good laws, but a relation of mine once had a mental episode and went into a church attacking people with a Samurai sword. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt, although it made headline news. He is now stable, and I dread to think what would have happened if he had had access to other weapons. I know another client of my wife who collected swords. Guns exist in London, but I haven;t heard about my wife ever finding any or being threatened by firearms by her clients. The police attending always wear bullet proof vests.

Another relation has aspergers, but has gradually grown out of it as he matured.

As a mathematician, some say half of mathematicians suffer from aspergers.

Joke (hope not inappropriate).

How do you tell an extrovert mathematician?

When talking to you, they look at your feet rather than their own feet.


From your link:

The hypothesis that individuals with AS (Asperger syndrome) are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated but is not supported by data.[1][30] More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.[31] A 2008 review found that an overwhelming number of reported violent criminals with AS had coexisting psychiatric disorders such as schizoaffective disorder.[32]

[essence]

ps I hope as part of any debate there is discussion on how mental health problems are diagnosed and managed. I know almost nothing about the level of mental health social services in the US. In the UK, it is very poorly paid and inadequately staffed.

Another discussion may be about banned substances and/or alcohol, and how it affects the vulnerable.

There is plenty we already know, without waiting for the factual details on this particular case.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by essence

My wife works in the mental health field in London, and the publics's fear of violence or aggressive behaviour is, in general, not supported by evidence, although some forms of mental illness of course do have an effect, and she often needs strong police support when taking them to hospital. Use of banned substances, even mild ones, can tip them over the edge also.

Anecdotes do not make good laws, but a relation of mine once had a mental episode and went into a church attacking people with a Samurai sword. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt, although it made headline news. He is now stable, and I dread to think what would have happened if he had had access to other weapons. I know another client of my wife who collected swords. Guns exist in London, but I haven;t heard about my wife ever finding any or being threatened by firearms by her clients. The police attending always wear bullet proof vests.

Another relation has aspergers, but has gradually grown out of it as he matured.

As a mathematician, some say half of mathematicians suffer from aspergers.

Joke (hope not inappropriate).

How do you tell an extrovert mathematician?

When talking to you, they look at your feet rather than their own feet.


From your link:

The hypothesis that individuals with AS (Asperger syndrome) are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated but is not supported by data.[1][30] More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.[31] A 2008 review found that an overwhelming number of reported violent criminals with AS had coexisting psychiatric disorders such as schizoaffective disorder.[32]

I'm not overly worried about mentally ill people being criminal. It's just that in this type of senseless crime, it seems like the killer is very often psychotic, usually paranoid schizophrenic.

I've never heard of Aspergers patients being violent. I always thought they tended to be withdrawn and passive, sort of Boo Radley types. There was a character on "Boston Legal" that had Aspergers syndrome. He was a tax law genius, but not much use in the court room.

It's almost a foregone conclusion that the killer is crazy when the crime is this horrific. The question is, what was the motivation. There can be no motivation for a crime like this other than madness.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

. The question is, what was the motivation. There can be no motivation for a crime like this other than madness.

Probably read some of your posts...

[Doove]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I've never heard of Aspergers patients being violent. I always thought they tended to be withdrawn and passive, sort of Boo Radley types. There was a character on "Boston Legal" that had Aspergers syndrome. He was a tax law genius, but not much use in the court room.

The guy's relying on a fictional TV show to make a psychiatric diagnosis.

Things seem to be coming into much clearer focus.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Doove

The guy's relying on a fictional TV show to make a psychiatric diagnosis.

Things seem to be coming into much clearer focus.

No wonder their polling numbers were so far off, they probably got them from watching reruns of West Wing!

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

+1; But I don't see how we avoid the posturing...Obama kick-started that off in yesterday's talk IMO.......

you simple fuck if he has not said anything you wingers would be all over his ass.You cocksuckers will use any disaster to trash him...

[dirty dog]

My granddaughters school has a design which would work to eliminate this type of danger. When you enter the school, you only have access to the office, once in the office you have to be buzzed into any area where there is a child, i.e. the hallways, and classrooms. The emergency exits are locked and cannot be opened from either the inside or outside unless the fire alarm has been activated, at which time they all open automatically. If they placed an armed police officer or trained security officer in the office anyone wishing to harm the children would be stopped without ever getting to them. Now many will say this is two expensive to impliment in every school in this country. My answer to that is if we stop all of the wasted aid we give to other countries many of whom hate our guts, we would have more than enough to money to accomplish this.

Additionally there should be no ban of any fire arm just because it looks dangerous, I.e. assualt weapons. When this country had its tightest form of gun control. (the clinton years, the assault weapons ban, ban on high cap mags and the brady bill) two children in colorado were able to kill 13 people using shotguns, bottom line if someone wants to kill they will use what every weapon is available.

What we can do is install a weapons purchasing license, to obtain this license, the individual must have proper firearms training, they must also receive a physcological evaluation. The license is good for 10 years and must then be renewed which would include another pshyc exam. We require a psych exam to join the army or to become a police officer. As for the training, anyone who has a CCW already has this training. Once you have this license you can purchase a weapon as you can now with a criminal history check. By the way my political affiliation is Independent and I am a multiple gun owner. Your thoughts

[JD Barleycorn]

Actually the cock suckers are the ones who support him no matter what he does. It's true. Its like child molesters, they are welcome in the big tent of the democratic party along with the cocksuckers.




Several years ago I submitted a proposed design for a new school incorporating some safety measures. The problem, and this seems to be the case at Sandy Hook, people tend to believe that you can put a lock on a door but still leave the windows on either side intact.

Case in point, a few years back I had the opportunity to embarass a school administrator. They built a brand spanking new HR document room. Expanded metal in the walls, heavy steel doors, combination locks and they were proud how secure their room was. I had my doubts so they ask if I could breach their security. I grabbed a nearby ladder went up in the drop ceiling and dropped down inside the secure room in about a minute. They didn't look too happy when I opened the door for them. A secure entrance should have no windows and my design had no windows n the outside of the school on the ground floor.