Economic Recovery

[Fast Gunn]

It looks like not only France, but even the mighty United States in particular needs to learn from Germany what a recovery is supposed to look like.

So what exactly is Germany doing that the United States is not and why aren't we doing it?

I think that we had better send a hot shot team of experts over there pronto and learn what measures Germany put in place so that we can get our act together!

Paging Mr. Obama!

[Laurentius]

The graph is deceptive. There is a 3% difference in unemployment rates.

[Fast Gunn]

The graph is meant to highlight the trend lines.

3% is actually very significant when considering millions of workers.

If the unemployment rate in the US was 3% lower than it is there would be a substantial amount of joy coming into the holiday season.

How many days are there before Christmas?

[Mokoa]

Paging Obama? What a joke.

Traditional Liberal tax and spend doctrine is only making things worse. What needs to be done is what Reagan did in the 1980's. Reduce taxes so that individuals and businesses will have more money to invest and purchase the things they need. The more that is bought and sold, the larger the increases in tax revenues allowing the local, state, and federal governments to do more for the rest of us. The more money businesses have the more employees they will be able to hire. That is what is necessary to reduce the unemployment rate.

As for Christmas...

It will come early this year when the midterm elections drain the swamp for real.

[TexTushHog]

Yeah, we sure need to run up the deficit like Reagan did. The deficits run up during his administration were greater than all Presidents from Washington to Carter combined.
Robert Sallow, who won a Nobel Prize, wrote in a article recently when advocating a new and better designed stimulus plan:

Of course further stimulus will increase a federal budget deficit that is already very large and will persist for years. It will persist even longer if the economy remains weak. That is cause for thought, not for paralysis. In the longer run, the build-up of Treasury debt displaces corporate securities from portfolios and raises the cost of borrowing to active businesses. But right now it is not borrowing costs that deter productive investment; it is the lack of demand for the products of those businesses. A functioning democracy has to understand that sometimes the short-run and long-run needs are different. Today, in a depressed economy, we need more spending. When prosperity returns, we may need more saving to finance domestic investment. The right response is stimulus now plus a credible plan to decrease the debt/GDP ratio when unemployment and idle capacity have been reduced to acceptable levels.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...recovery-plan/

Maybe you should leave the economics to the professions.

[Fast Gunn]

Well put, Tush Hog.

I don't understand how people even today still think Regan did any good for this country. The real joke was his "trickle-down" economics.

President Clinton left this country in great shape economically with plenty of money left in reserves and yet he was still reviled by many for what I consider minor sexual peccadilloes. Hate mongers, like Rush Limbaugh were able to sway a lot of people who could not think for themselves.

That cowboy, Bush was an even worse joke and left this country in total shambles. He took us into an insane war that cost this country an astronomical amount in lives and money. Why some people still wanted another Republican president after that is beyond me, but I know Texas is historically a red state. I shudder to think of Sarah Palin as president.

President Obama was one of the very few brave souls in Washington who opposed the war in Iraq and I am proud of him for having the balls to do that. I know Saddam was evil, but we had him boxed in and all we did by invading Iraq was play into the terrorists hands and help them recruit more terrorists while spending our blood and money. Bush was their puppet in that war.

Now, President Obama has inherited the huge ugly mess left by the Republican administration and is valiantly trying to clean it up, but is hampered by the old school who still want to do things the old way.

The old way was got us into this mess and we should be grateful that we finally have someone in the oval office with a brilliant mind who is courageous enough to take us in a new direction.

I don't understand why so many people hate Obama, but if you look back in history you will find that many great Presidents, like Lincoln and FDR were fiercely hated by many small minds in that time. That is emotional thinking and fanned by hate mongers.

Only with the passage of time have people come to see how great some hated Presidents really were for this country.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

I don't understand why so many people hate Obama,

I think you can chalk this up to race. Not that Obama plays that card, but I think a LOT of citizens unconsciously (or consciously) can't stand to see a Black man be bold and succeed in the Presidency. It offends their latent prejudices.

Now, before the piling on begins...I said "a LOT." Not everyone. If you don't like Obama, then I'm not necessarily condemning you to racial prejudice.

I've lived through every president since I was born some 60 years ago. Obama is the first time I heard the line, "Just another Black family in government housing." I think that portrays an underlying feeling rampant across the country.

[Fast Gunn]

You're right, Charles and I never thought I'd say that.

I think people need to look beyond skin color and consider the character of the man. We must evolve or go backwards.

When Obama first came on the scene, I thought he was a nice man, but felt that he had no chance in hell in getting to the White House.

However, I decided it was only fair to do some intensive research into the man and I read all of his books and listened very closely to all that he was saying and little by little he won me over.

Today, I am convinced that he is the most cerebral President this country has been blessed to have since John F. Kennedy, but he has many entrenched opponents in the government hell-bent solely on breaking him rather than focused on what is good for this country.

Being President of the United States is the toughest job in the world and being in the worst recession since the Great Depression only makes things even more difficult, but to have elected officials dedicated to "breaking" him is criminal.

We are all in this boat together and I think we need to come together as a country and help our President steer this country back to the right course again before this ship sinks into the abyss and takes all of us down with it. Do you remember what happened to Greece, Rome and scores of other countries that collapsed?

There is no denying that this country is in serious trouble today, folks and we need to keep the eye on the ball instead of fomenting dissent and undermining the best President we have had in generations.

Remember that it took eight tortuous years for Bush to dig the USA into the massive hole that we are in today and we cannot dig ourselves out over night, but at least we are finally heading in the right direction.

Do you folks realize that all of Europe laughed at the USA when we elected Bush the second time?

Do you realize that most of the world rejoiced when we finally wised up and elected President Obama?

It's time for the United States to show the world that we have matured as a nation and are ready to lead the world again.

[oden]

Get over it. The man is a big government liberal. There is no need to call him anything worse. If you can't get the fact that many that voted for him didn't realize that he is "that" liberal and for "this much" big government then you are going to continue to be shocked and dismayed at his plummeting popularity and lack of credulity.

[Fast Gunn]

Don't confuse your opinion with reality, oden.

That is the most common mistake that people make.

I realize full well that Obama's polls have taken a hit of late, but that is just the roller coaster nature of politics.

Abraham Lincoln's popularity was even lower when the south would win a battle, but that doesn't diminish his greatness now.

Franklin Roosevelt was reviled by many in business when he enacted the New Deal to revive the economy and it took many years for many people to finally see his wisdom.

[oden]

So you think Roosevelt was a success for putting the country through all the pain and agony of failed social programs, higher taxes, price controls etc..., until years later an economy spawned by a world war finally shook us out? You want to go through that again? I think people are saying "hey, we read that book and we don't like it". The more Obama acts like Roosevelt, the more uncomfortable the mainstream becomes.

[Cpalmson]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I think you can chalk this up to race. Not that Obama plays that card, but I think a LOT of citizens unconsciously (or consciously) can't stand to see a Black man be bold and succeed in the Presidency. It offends their latent prejudices.

Now, before the piling on begins...I said "a LOT." Not everyone. If you don't like Obama, then I'm not necessarily condemning you to racial prejudice.

I've lived through every president since I was born some 60 years ago. Obama is the first time I heard the line, "Just another Black family in government housing." I think that portrays an underlying feeling rampant across the country.

CT, maybe some would give him credit but Obama has been an utter failure. You claim he has succeeded-- hardly. Name one "successful" policy under Obama. 1) Healthcare-- he rammed it through even though 60% opposed the measure. Over 50% of the country wants it repealed. You simply can't impose your will on people. Nevermind the fact, the law will be found un-Constitutional. 2) Bailouts-- again, he ignored the will of the people and has wasted billions in un-necessary spending to prop up so-called "too-big" to fail companies. Nothing is too big to fail. 3) He globetrots around the world never missing an opportunity to apologize for America. 4) He doesn't believe in the greatness of America. None of this has to do with race. It has to do with an arrogant liberal who thinks he knows better than the majority of Americans. That is why the Dems are going to get their asses kicked in November. BTW, Reagan was by far the greatest President of the 20th Century.

[Cpalmson]

The problem with our economy is that from Main Street to Wall Street from the ghetto to the White House; nobody has any fucking discipline when it comes to spending money. Our government tends to think the tax-payer is a never ending ATM, so they think all economic woes can be solved by "stimulating" economy at the expense of the tax payer and future generations. The Federal Reserve Board feels a loose monetary policy will encorage businesses to spend on capital improvements to spur growth. Ordinary people now EXPECT 0% financing with no payments for 6 months on every purchase made over $250. Money is NOT free, but people think it should be. On the other side of the board, businesses are hammered with governmental rules, fees and taxes. Small businesses can't hire because of the the red tape thrown in their way by government. For business, it is in their interest to maximize productivity of their current work force than to hire new employees. To fix the economy, we need to do the following: 1) Jack interest rates up to 5%. This has two beneficial impacts. First, it shocks everyone into realizing money isn't free and might be an inducement to prevent people with marginal means from buying stuff that can't afford. Second, it also encourages savings. When people save, they build value and capital. 2) End needless governmental regulation with business. There are too many rules businesses have to wade through in order to operate efficiently 3) Pass a balanced budget amendment 4) Scrap social security and medicaid while developing a program that will help the really needy. Let the folks who can support themselves do it on their own. 5) End the "Nanny State". The government that governs the least, governs the best!!!!

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

The problem with our economy is that from Main Street to Wall Street from the ghetto to the White House; nobody has any fucking discipline when it comes to spending money. Our government tends to think the tax-payer is a never ending ATM, so they think all economic woes can be solved by "stimulating" economy at the expense of the tax payer and future generations. The Federal Reserve Board feels a loose monetary policy will encorage businesses to spend on capital improvements to spur growth. Ordinary people now EXPECT 0% financing with no payments for 6 months on every purchase made over $250. Money is NOT free, but people think it should be. On the other side of the board, businesses are hammered with governmental rules, fees and taxes. Small businesses can't hire because of the the red tape thrown in their way by government. For business, it is in their interest to maximize productivity of their current work force than to hire new employees. To fix the economy, we need to do the following: 1) Jack interest rates up to 5%. This has two beneficial impacts. First, it shocks everyone into realizing money isn't free and might be an inducement to prevent people with marginal means from buying stuff that can't afford. Second, it also encourages savings. When people save, they build value and capital. 2) End needless governmental regulation with business. There are too many rules businesses have to wade through in order to operate efficiently 3) Pass a balanced budget amendment 4) Scrap social security and medicaid while developing a program that will help the really needy. Let the folks who can support themselves do it on their own. 5) End the "Nanny State". The government that governs the least, governs the best!!!!

Geez, CP, tell us how you really feel.

Actually, I generally agree w/ #1. However to encourage saving, interest rates need to increase. If borrowing costs, savings should gain interest or there is no motivation to save.

#2 is spitting in the wind and I couldn't disagree more. Business w/o regulation is a license to abuse consumers.

#3 I agree with. It is what I do at home. I don't purchase anything I don't already have the money for (except my house).

#4. Good luck with that. (I assume you meant Medicare instead of Medicaid). If you are talking about retirement benefits this will be a tough sell to anyone. If you're talking about SSI and Medicaid, I think it's pretty petty of you to strike out against the disabled.

#5. Reasonable men will always disagree with the definition of the Nanny State. A Nanny is like a Governess who teaches young children. If you want to do away with it, I assume you also want to do away with compulsory education, higher education, loans and grants for education. Yeah, just throw us in the same category as third world countries.

Don't know about you, but I'm proud of my country just the way it is, and would like to see it improve under the administrations I agree with and those that I disagree with.

[charlestudor2005]

CP, I didn't say anything about my feelings regarding Obama's success...just responded to him being "hated." In general, I feel it is way too early to judge his success. Most people aren't even giving him the benefit of serving out his first term before rendering judgment. I think this is a mistake, but mostly it is the result of 24/7 news posing the questions over and over again (can't some one shut up Wolf Blitzer?). My general responses:

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

CT, maybe some would give him credit but Obama has been an utter failure. You claim he has succeeded-- hardly. Name one "successful" policy under Obama. 1) Healthcare-- he rammed it through even though 60% opposed the measure. Over 50% of the country wants it repealed. You simply can't impose your will on people. Nevermind the fact, the law will be found un-Constitutional. I doubt that it will be found unconstitutional. It is law because Congress passed it. Whether it is a failure or not remains to be seen after it totally goes into effect some years down the road. I'm content to wait. I know people with sever disabilities that will do well under the healthcare law. Or would you throw them back to the insurance wolves? 2) Bailouts-- again, he ignored the will of the people and has wasted billions in un-necessary spending to prop up so-called "too-big" to fail companies. Nothing is too big to fail. I actually agree with you, but the bailout was a Bush policy that Obama was stuck with and had to expand (much like the military surge) in order to make it work. 3) He globetrots around the world never missing an opportunity to apologize for America. That this even makes your arguments shows that you are not being objective. 4) He doesn't believe in the greatness of America. I disagree with this. It is a theme in most/all of his speeches. None of this has to do with race. Like I said, I wasn't speaking about success...I was speaking about why he is hated. I suspect you may be one of those who has a latent racial prejudice based on some the attacking done here that has nothing to do with the issues. It has to do with an arrogant liberal who thinks he knows better than the majority of Americans. That is why the Dems are going to get their asses kicked in November. As every news forum has pointed out, every President whose party also controlled both houses of Congress lost in the mid-terms. So BFD, that tells us nothing. BTW, Reagan was by far the greatest President of the 20th Century. Only in your dreams. Roosevelt, by far, and maybe Kennedy, and Johnson. Like I said, Obama still remains to be seen.