Noblesse Oblige...possible hooker exemption?

[Reya Sunshine]

I warn you this is long, rambling 5 am lonely hooker talk. proceed with caution or not at all if you have better things to do.

With all the talk lately of donating time and money etc. and the undeniable fact that my apt., car, material possessions etc. are of a generally higher quality than the average American girl my age since, let's be honest I don't have kids or any *eccie unmentionable habits* that would drain my resources and I make $300 an hour tax free I can afford those luxuries.

I guess my dilemma is do I have a moral right to those luxuries since they are not given to me freely by virtue of my birth or social status but earned through selling my body and pieces of my soul from time to time...it's not as if I am the well to do daughter of someone the world cares about.

When my stomach was rumbling the only help I ever received was the offer to become romantically or sexually entangled with a much older or otherwise emotionally incompatible man who usually just views me as an object; a means to an end.

This lifestyle, the escort/hooker/courtesan/whatever you wanna call it offers me just a glimpse into that other world where people don't worry about things like whether their children can eat or the electricity will be turned off this month. Yet, I'm still surrounded by those people both in my family and in the world. I feel like I give so much of myself to make the money that I make but at the same time I feel morally obligated to help my friends and family who are ALWAYS in worse shape than me financially. Aside from my friends and family there are people without fucking clean water to drink...how much of that is my responsibility? Is it callous to say as Emerson did "Expect me not to show cause why I seek or why I exclude company. Then, again, do not tell me, as a good man did to-day, of my obligation to put all poor men in good situations. Are they my poor? I tell thee, thou foolish philanthropist, that I grudge the dollar, the dime, the cent, I give to such men as do not belong to me and to whom I do not belong. There is a class of persons to whom by all spiritual affinity I am bought and sold; for them I will go to prison, if need be; but your miscellaneous popular charities; the education at college of fools; the building of meeting-houses to the vain end to which many now stand; alms to sots; and the thousandfold Relief Societies; -- though I confess with shame I sometimes succumb and give the dollar, it is a wicked dollar which by and by I shall have the manhood to withhold."

I guess this is just my 5 am long winded way of asking...since I'm a just a lowly hooker in the eyes of most "civilized" society and surely they think I'm a sinner do I have the obligation to shop at target and donate the money I'd spend at Louis Vuitton to people who don't have homes or clean drinking water when technically most of those people could morally "sink" to my level and be able to have the same lifestyle I do? Or should I enjoy the material things this lifestyle has to offer?

I want to be able to consider myself a noble person but since I make money the way that I do...often with other people's husbands who quite often are not very nice to me and don't think very highly of me as far as I can tell does that mean morally I'm basically exempt from the concept of Noblesse Oblige(and I mean that term in it's pure form, not the snarky champagne socialist way that some might take it).

Sorry this was such a long tangent...I'm just struggling with this so much. I'm on the verge of selling anything I have of value and donating it all to charity...also on the verge of losing my mind or my soul(what's left of it).

Anyway, what do y'all think about any of this? Genuine help from good people would be truly appreciated.

[trynagetlaid]

I looked at your profile and see that you are 28 years old. You have to take the approach that you will live to a ripe old age, let's say between 70 and 80. You will probably not continue in your present occupation until much after 40. So you have 30 to 40 years to worry about.

Buy a house. Pick a good area close to family, and you don't need 2500 sq ft, 4 bedrooms. Remember that even after the house is paid for you're still responsible for property taxes and insurance.

Don't live extravagantly. Who needs a BMW in the driveway, designer jeans and 300 pairs of shoes in the closet? Yes you can afford some luxuries, and you deserve them for having to put up with the crap in this business, but don't overdo it.

Save or invest as much as you can for retirement. Keep in mind that you can't expect much interest or investment income - many people have seen their retirement nest eggs shrink by 50% or more in the last few years. Those same people thought they could retire and live off their 401-k earnings, without touching the primary balance. At one time you could depend on 8-10% return, but that's not the case in our present economic conditions.

As far as charity and benevolence, think more about donating your time than your money. There are countless volunteer opportunities in your area.

Don't 'loan' money to family or friends. There's no such thing. It will always be a gift. If someone close to you is struggling it's OK to provide a little help, but don't expect to ever get any of it back.

[Reya Sunshine]

Oh, I never loan money, I always just give it since they would never repay it anyway and it'd just wind up making me upset that they lied to me.

I volunteered my time 40 hrs a week every week last summer and I also give about 10% of my income to charitable organizations. On top of that I can't tell you how much I've given to my sister but I bet I coulda bought a nice condo with it by now.

You made some great points about investing but I've always been scared to buy a home and feel tied down to one spot. It's also really tough for me to save money if you haven't noticed. lol.

Thanks for replying, it's nice to know someone was listening at least!

[ElisabethWhispers]

Interesting topic. I just HAD this conversation with a good friend when I was in Austin last weekend. My friend, who is a HDH of the highest order, in other words ... extremely high maintenance and I were having this talk.

I asked her if we had some sort of obligation to others because of our high income. Or rather, HER high income!!!

And the discussion went kindof like this: She said that it was fine that we decided to eat well at Whole Foods and try to better ourselves in any way possible within the framework of our being.

And while we were striving to be the best that we could be, saving money, doing what we do ... that we try to elevate those around us and be a positive and good role model and kind.

For her, she takes a hundred dollars per month and gives it to someone or some cause. In August, her cause was me because I had been in the hospital and ill for three weeks and out of work.

And the whole idea was basically, it's up to us to create a good lifestyle and in the interim, save money, pay taxes and make ourselves good citizens and individuals. If you can give back to the community, and by that I'm speaking globally by doing good deeds, then that's all to the good.

Even Jesus said that there would always be poor people. And Buddha doesn't mind if you prosper within the confines of that philosophy.

Enjoy your purses and the ability to go out and spend money! For but the sake of God, please start putting money back or you'll HATE yourself in five years. TRUST me on that one.

I've justified not being able to save, and this is true, because of my overhead. Now, I'm working on a five year plan that is going to be grueling.

Don't be in my situation. Figure out a way to sock back more than 10 percent. You'll be SO happy if you do.

And late night thoughts are good for your heart and soul. I LOVE reading topics like this. And don't sell your stuff. In the deep of the night, when alone, thoughts like this are common especially if accompanied by a few glasses of wine or just lack of sleep.

Deep night thoughts are often the most provocative ones that we'll have.

You're also going to have to come to grips with what you do. What you're doing isn't wrong as long as there is an even exchange of services. You're just using your body for sexual pleasures instead of using your body to do admin work. It's all the same in the end.

If you're feeling guilt, which is the cancer of life btw, either get out of the business or try to come to some sort of agreement with yourself.

This is what we call in the upper middle class "White Girl Problems" and it happens a lot with ladies who are thoughtful and kind and who much has been given. Rejoice that you're able to make money.

And be good to yourself in the interim. Lose the guilt and save money. THEN .. you'll have the strength and fortitude to do good things in the future!!! Especially for yourself.

Hope this helped,
Elisabeth

[ElisabethWhispers]

Wanted to add another thought: You used a big phrase in your heading. My thoughts about this is with this example. Say you play the piano and you wish to learn a beautiful piece by Mozart. There is always going to be someone who will play that piece of music better than you do. And there is always going to be someone who performs worse.

In life, it's always a balance. So remember that as you ponder the term "Noblesse Oblige". The ideology behind it isn't suggesting that you give up your lifestyle to help others. It's suggesting that if you have much, then live up to the expectations of that status.

And there are a few ways to accomplish that.

So if living your life to a certain standard is your desire, then do so. But you cannot let yourself grieve over the misfortunes of others. I do that. And it doesn't help. I wish that I could help my friends who really struggle. But if you help them with an electricity bill one month, it's not going to help them when they're in that situation the next month.

I've BEEN there where I couldn't pay my bills and struggle. I'm still there at times and I'm VERY fortunate in my personal situation. Life is a hell of a thing to happen to a person, my young friend. And in time, you'll come to a place in your mind where it will all make sense.

Of course at that time, you'll be old like I am and you will wonder why you didn't come to this place in your twenties!!! But it's like this with everyone who has keep inner thoughts.

And it's all good!

Part Two is over now!

[Reya Sunshine]

Another well thought out reply from someone who's advice I value...tonight must be my lucky night.

I'm going to make the conscious decision to save at least 1k a month...and I'm going to give up designer ANYTHING until I have my own condo or small cottage near my sister. OMFG this is going to be tough for me.

You helped a lot Elisabeth, thanks for taking the time to reply...your posts are always so well thought out!

[ElisabethWhispers]

Instead of thinking about it being tough ... how about changing those thoughts about the purchase of a house and having savings as a VERY exciting challenge and accomplishment!!!

I'm excited for you!!!

Sincerely,
Elisabeth

[Happy Diver]

Interesting thread.

Most of us give up part of our souls to make their way in the world. And everything is a trade off, a balancing act. I gave up my writing soul to pursue a career in business and raise a family. I got some wonderful now grown up kids out that deal. Seemed fair to me then and fair to me now. But now that I'm near the end of that career I'm back writing again.

Saving money is always good. Avoid debt--it is a soul eater.

Helping the indigent is good too.

There are a few pure souls driven to a life of indigence to help the poor. But as Jesus said, "the poor you will always have with you." I have strong feelings that everyone should have a home and everyone should have enough to eat. I think this can be accomplished without people giving up much--it's more a matter of allocation of resources than a lack thereof. I doubt that the government is capable of doing this, but the private organization isn't there yet either.

If you give, give without regrets. If you take, take without regrets too. I regret none of the hundreds of women I've been with although I assume I took some of their souls too.

As far as buying a house, I would vote for buying land and building a house after the land is paid off. Build it bit by bit and pay cash. This is saving money in its purest form. Avoid mortgages. The tax deduction is largely worthless.

When you eat, savor every bite.

Just two cents from an old monger.

[Carl]

I don't disagree with what Emerson said, but look at what he's saying. He's not discounting doing things or giving to others, but rather the unexamined, some might say thoughtless, charity people exhibit to meet the expectations of society or their peers, for public display to win praise by others, or perhaps simply to assuage a sense of guilt over their affluence. Those aren't good reasons to be charitable.

Whether you give money or time and labor, whether you give a little or a lot, the key element is to do so sincerely out of compassion and concern. Sure, you might gain the praise of others or their approval. You might even feel better about yourself, but those shouldn't be the primary motivators, but by-products of your actions that were initiated by your ability to look beyond your own world, needs, and concerns.

Jesus also said some things along those lines. He said, "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward." And we all now how fickle public opinion is. Your status in the eyes of others can change as easily as the wind blows. So, if you feel the sincere imperative to give out of the kindness of your heart, then give, however you choose to do so. Then the charity is an emotionally nourishing reward itself back to you.

When you care about your fellow human beings enough to give, it shows that your focus is not entirely self-centered, that you do care for your neighbor as much as yourself, which is another thing Jesus said we should do. You can't simultaneously be selfish and concerned for others. One last thing Jesus also said: "No one can serve two masters, because either he will hate one and love the other, or be loyal to one and despise the other ..." Either the essence of your personality is "I'm out for #1 and screw everybody else" or it's not. And the struggle you're having with this issue is a strong indication that it's not true for you.

[Reya Sunshine]

That's a really great idea, I think I'm going to start saving for an acre of land in my hometown area and buy it at auction or something in the next 6 months. Ha, then if things get bad I can at least put a tent up and no one can tell me I have to leave.

Oh and thank you Carl for your reply...I def wasn't meaning to boast about what I do for others, ha complaining prolly comes closer to the truth. I think I see what you are getting at with charity having to come from your heart instead of obligation or to assuage guilt.

Originally Posted by Happy Diver

Interesting thread.

Most of us give up part of our souls to make their way in the world. And everything is a trade off, a balancing act. I gave up my writing soul to pursue a career in business and raise a family. I got some wonderful now grown up kids out that deal. Seemed fair to me then and fair to me now. But now that I'm near the end of that career I'm back writing again.

Saving money is always good. Avoid debt--it is a soul eater.

Helping the indigent is good too.

There are a few pure souls driven to a life of indigence to help the poor. But as Jesus said, "the poor you will always have with you." I have strong feelings that everyone should have a home and everyone should have enough to eat. I think this can be accomplished without people giving up much--it's more a matter of allocation of resources than a lack thereof. I doubt that the government is capable of doing this, but the private organization isn't there yet either.

If you give, give without regrets. If you take, take without regrets too. I regret none of the hundreds of women I've been with although I assume I took some of their souls too.

As far as buying a house, I would vote for buying land and building a house after the land is paid off. Build it bit by bit and pay cash. This is saving money in its purest form. Avoid mortgages. The tax deduction is largely worthless.

When you eat, savor every bite.

Just two cents from an old monger.

[Yssup Rider]

You are kind, beautiful and caring.

Wanna fuck? (just couldnt help myself ... Excuse the humor! Just seemed necessary in this serious ass thread. Please carry on!)

[Carl]

You're welcome, Reya. And I wasn't implying that you were boasting. Your comments seemed like anything but that. Though there are people, often celebrities or socialites, that do good works accompanied by a press release or publicists. Or the people in an organization or church that make a very public display of their generosity whenever there's a drive or fundraiser. The fact that you are struggling with the issues indicates that you aren't serving two "masters". That you haven't gotten to the point of hating giving altogether and focused on only yourself, not have you given yourself over to renouncing the world and its comforts and tried to follow the path of an ascetic. Your struggle is evidence of your thoughtful examination of the issues before you. But I suggest that much of your struggle seems (to me) to arise from you not giving full value and appreciation to your own unselfish motives for your actions.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You are kind, beautiful and caring.

Wanna fuck? (just couldnt help myself ... Excuse the humor!)

Sure, big boy. But it's gonna cost you. I may be easy but I'm not cheap.

[rekcaSxT]

A Penny Saved.......

Have you ever heard of a Roth IRA? Roth IRA's are Individual Retirement Accounts that one contributes taxed income to. The idea is that you have payed tax on that money before investing it so when the account matures and you cash it in you don't have to pay taxes on it like with your 401K. I would recommend a Roth since in all likelihood you are not paying taxes (or at least I would assume you aren't) on your "earnings". This type of investment will not catch the eye of the IRS as quickly as other forms might.

I know this thread wasn't really about investing, but the topic was touched on and I thought I would add this morsel.

[NewWave]

damn I hope Carl gets a nice discount.

i agree with his points, and to be honest I haven't read everything on here because everyone's post is really fucking long. That Emerson quote wouldn't end.

but I have no problem with your cash going towards clothes and cars instead of up your nose. that would be a waste and disrespectful...if that's what you meant by habits, of course you could be talking about your CIMNQNS habit...ohhh count it

just kidding. but I understand your issue with donations. I think Carl is right in his Jesus commentary, that it should be about the other person and not about making yourself feel good or look good. I think the more private the donations the more meaningful.

I've always hated making donations when I'm shamed into it or if I'm trying to look like a good guy, because i know the truth.

good luck with your choices. you always seem like a really cool and nice chick, too bad you're too pricey for my sub-blue collar cock.