Tax Reform

[SpeedRacerXXX]

I was wondering what people's opinions are concerning the proposed House and Senate tax reform bills. Although many specifics are still to be worked out on the middle class tax cuts, I think I will be one of those who makes out fairly well, even if they are allowed to expire in 2026. Not that I support them. The large corporations benefit the most, and if you think that the corporations will pass their tax savings onto the workers, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. The second group that will benefit greatly from the proposed tax plans are the rich. And finally, the middle class who may or may not benefit much from the tax cuts.

I especially don't like the Senate version which does away with the "individual mandate". The Senate needs to focus on the impact of the tax plan on the deficit and doing away with the individual mandate saves many billions of dollars. I just don't like mixing repeal of part of Obamacare with tax reform. That has already been addressed ad infinitum.

Personally, I do not feel over-taxed. If there is no tax reform at all I won't be unhappy.

Your thoughts?

[Cap'n Crunch]

Studies have shown that the middle class will ultimately pay more under this reform. The richest Americans will gain the most.

"The Senate bill, believe it or not, represents an even more painful bait-and-switch than the House proposal. In 2019, over 85% of middle class taxpayers will experience a tax cut, but by 2027, over 55% of those earning between $48,000 and $225,000 will pay MORE taxes than they would under current law."

"The Tax Policy Center released its dynamic analysis of the House version of H.R. 1, and the results were...not good.

The study concluded that the $1.5 trillion in tax cuts proposed in the plan would not fully pay for themselves; in fact, after accounting for economic growth, the plan would result in...$1.3 trillion in tax cuts.

That's right...the sweeping cuts offered under the GOP plan would create enough economic growth to bring in an extra $160 billion over the next decade."


https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthony.../#3b77c43f338e

[pussycat]

When the mandate to purchase private insurance is gone Obamacare will be all but gutted. I think the IRS has already been instructed by the POTUS not to prosecute those cases any longer. Obamacare is a disaster and it's supporters lied their asses off to the Congress and public to get it passed. If someone can't afford private insurance they should apply for Medicaid like it's always been. But under Obamacare private insurance premiums have become unaffordable for many. Personally the problems with American health care lie in the costs, and no government program which fails to address the outrages in costs will fail. I don't know how to solve this problem without turning all of American medicine upside down, and that is a non starter when the hospitals, MDs, device manufacturers, pharma, and others are getting rich off the present corrupted system.

As for the tax proposals I am opposed, and I remember Reagan having to step in later and raise taxes after his tax cuts adopted in his first year led to sky high deficits. In fact they were so sky high that the debt reach ONE TRILLION DOLLARS! Can you imagine that! A national debt of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!

Reagan made a big mistake with his tax cuts and he worked hard later to seek to remedy that mistake. This tax cut plan will make it impossible to retire the debt. Our debt is now 100 percent of GNP, and by World Bank and IMF standards anything over 40% is a crisis.

We are fucked.

Raise taxes, not lower them.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by pussycat

When the mandate to purchase private insurance is gone Obamacare will be all but gutted. I think the IRS has already been instructed by the POTUS not to prosecute those cases any longer. Obamacare is a disaster and it's supporters lied their asses off to the Congress and public to get it passed. If someone can't afford private insurance they should apply for Medicaid like it's always been. But under Obamacare private insurance premiums have become unaffordable for many. Personally the problems with American health care lie in the costs, and no government program which fails to address the outrages in costs will fail. I don't know how to solve this problem without turning all of American medicine upside down, and that is a non starter when the hospitals, MDs, device manufacturers, pharma, and others are getting rich off the present corrupted system.

As for the tax proposals I am opposed, and I remember Reagan having to step in later and raise taxes after his tax cuts adopted in his first year led to sky high deficits. In fact they were so sky high that the debt reach ONE TRILLION DOLLARS! Can you imagine that! A national debt of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!

Reagan made a big mistake with his tax cuts and he worked hard later to seek to remedy that mistake. This tax cut plan will make it impossible to retire the debt. Our debt is now 100 percent of GNP, and by World Bank and IMF standards anything over 40% is a crisis.

We are fucked.

Raise taxes, not lower them.

I am surprised at your viewpoint on tax reform. Without it passing, members of the House and Senate up for re-election in 2018 will have little to tell their constituencies as to what they have done for them. Without repeal of the ACA and tax reform, Trump will have no major accomplishments while in office in his first year.

As for the ACA, I agree that it is far from perfect but it is far better than what has been proposed as its replacement in my opinion. Fix it, don't repeal it.

[pussycat]

Corporate taxes need to be brought into line with those of other countries, and therefore slashed. But personal marginal rates have to be increased to the levels under Reagan. If we merely had the Reagan era rates, particularly on capital gains, we wouldn't have the enormous debt. And if we had the Reagan rates with three or four percent growth we could pay down the debt over time.

There is no evidence that tax cuts stimulate the economy. They don't stimulate it any more than government spending.

And as for capital gains, which were slashed by Clinton in '94, it is the most absurd subsidy on the planet. The world is now awash in trillons of dollars and euros pumped out by central banks so the buddies of those bankers can borrow for speculation. We've never had so many dollars available for "investment," and there is no shortage of capital for any purpose under the sun. The idea that "investors" (speculators) should pay less than wage earners is insane. It was another Clinton giveaway for his billionaire buddies like Marc Rich and Jeffrey Epstein guy who operated the Lolita Express and his personal island of perversion. We subsidized that island.

Obamacare is a disaster from start to finish. Premiums are now unaffordable and it doesn't address costs. It needs to be scrapped entirely, and then those who can't afford insurance can go on Medicaid just like before. We've had Medicaid and Medicare for decades now so the bother about the necessity of "insurance" was never a real problem. Before Obamacare there were forty million without insurance, and now there are still thirty million so what's the big deal. Still tens of millions without insurance, so let them apply for Medicaid or whatever.

Trump has not proposed any legislation. He's laying out goals and then let's the Republicans in Congress, most of whom are opposed to him, to cobble together some idiotic Republican plan. That leaves morons like Ryan and "Daddy Mitch" in the would be drivers' seats. Those two are total losers who still love free trade, open borders, and only want tax cuts and to live in their Ayn Rand fantasies of an anarchist utopia.

Trump has done a lot with Directives and Orders and Commands on many issues. But on legislation he's done nothing, which isn't bad. His tweets get crazier and crazier, and that's because we're stuck in a tech-driven distopia of social media, fake news, no journalistic standards anymore, total corruption of everything on every level, and he's nested himself into this mess to ride the popular trends rather than resist them. He's a survivor and a winner and these horrible tactics are what he uses to win. He reflects the insanity of our generation, but he didn't create that insanity.

[Dr Hackenbush]

One of my big questions is why there are tax breaks for people that own private jets, wineries and golf course. Yes those provisions are in the bill

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Dr Hackenbush

One of my big questions is why there are tax breaks for people that own private jets, wineries and golf course. Yes those provisions are in the bill

Corporations will benefit the most from the tax bill. And if anyone expects that increase in revenue to be passed on to the workers or the general public in the form of lower prices for their goods, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

The rich will benefit from the tax bill the second most. Many argue since they pay so much in taxes compared to others, they should see the most benefits.

The middle class? It's still impossible to get a handle on how it will affect us. The standard deduction for a couple will increase by about $12,000 but the personal exemption of $4,050 per person will disappear. House wants 4 tax rates and Senate wants 7. The income levels for each tax rate are as yet undefined, which will go a long way to determining how much each of us will get back under the reform. I am guessing that I will see an increase of about $100 a month in my income if the tax plan is passed. Not great. Not bad.

The one point I don't agree on is the Senate's plan to do away with the individual insurance mandate. The Senate has to be concerned more with the increase in the deficit than the House so the only reason this is in their plan is to save money. The CBO estimates that this will raise premiums and leave 13 million additional people uninsured. And who will pay when those uninsured people go to the emergency room? You and me.

McConnnell says he has the votes to pass the tax reform bill. Then the battle with the House will begin.

[Aroundagain]

This tax bill will slash Medicare and medicade by trillions, so I don't understand the point of getting on medicaid after the bill is passed. Please explain your position on this. The tax bill will create a tremendous deficit and they will cut these 2 programs to make up for it.

[chuckles]

I suggest we try an experiment. Write down your annual income for 2017 and next New Years day write down how much you make in 2018. Include hospital costs if you have an elderly person that depends on you for medical care as medicare benefits will gradually be cut. Then we will have empirical evidence as to how much this bill has benefitted you.
As for quality of life, if you get sick you will not receive the same quality of healthcare we've grown accustomed to in the United States as insurance companies will be allowed to maximize their profits at patient expense. I work in a health care related industry and I can tell you hospitals are already financially stressed to the max and depend on Medicaid and Medicare to keep their doors open. Staffing has been cut to the bone and and organizations are trying to eke buy with the least amount of and cheapest supplies available.

[oneminuteman]

Remember he Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 and then the big recession in 2008? If you're not rich, I'd call you House and Senate reps. If you are rich, anytime you can transfer $1.5T from the middle/working class to the ultra wealthy, you have to do it. Well done GOP, GOP lobbyists and GOP campaign donors.

If you're the average Trump voter who was convinced Trump would drain the swamp because Trump said we should be tired of the billionaires and corporate interests controlling our politics and you didn't think he would just use the office to enrich himself, his family and his friends, well then congrats, you've officially graduated from Trump University

[pussycat]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Corporations will benefit the most from the tax bill. And if anyone expects that increase in revenue to be passed on to the workers or the general public in the form of lower prices for their goods, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

The rich will benefit from the tax bill the second most. Many argue since they pay so much in taxes compared to others, they should see the most benefits.

The middle class? It's still impossible to get a handle on how it will affect us. The standard deduction for a couple will increase by about $12,000 but the personal exemption of $4,050 per person will disappear. House wants 4 tax rates and Senate wants 7. The income levels for each tax rate are as yet undefined, which will go a long way to determining how much each of us will get back under the reform. I am guessing that I will see an increase of about $100 a month in my income if the tax plan is passed. Not great. Not bad.

The one point I don't agree on is the Senate's plan to do away with the individual insurance mandate. The Senate has to be concerned more with the increase in the deficit than the House so the only reason this is in their plan is to save money. The CBO estimates that this will raise premiums and leave 13 million additional people uninsured. And who will pay when those uninsured people go to the emergency room? You and me.

McConnnell says he has the votes to pass the tax reform bill. Then the battle with the House will begin.

Lowering corporate rates is necessary to prevent offshoring of earnings and to prevent foreign corporations for locating elsewhere. The US loses a lot of investment because of it's high business taxes, but gains almost nothing because the corporations use elaborate and expensive tactics to avoid the tax. This drives them to spend large amounts hiding their earnings when we could be gaining tax revenue by giving them a tax low enough so they will bring it all back. It is possible that this might even increase revenue from corporations because they would bring their earnings back and pay the lower tax rather than paying no tax at all by keeping it offshore. Time will tell.

I'm not a fan of high rates for the 1% because it's very discouraging for people like me with that income to shell out such a huge chunk of my hard earned earnings just because I'm lucky enough to be high on the food chain. High marginal rates for the rich are a bad idea. I do however oppose all Capital Gains taxes, and people who make windfalls from speculation or "investment" should pay the same rate as a factory worker or farmer. The last thing we need is incentives for investment when there's so many investors and so much money for investment which can't even find good investments to put all that money into.

The individual mandate should never have been enacted and must be eliminated because it's insane to punish people for not purchasing any item from a private company, much less one they CANNOT AFFORD.

In Texas alone there are tens of thousands of working poor who have been shelling out the 700 dollar fine for years because it's cheaper than purchasing insurance they CANNOT AFFORD. How the Left squares that with their professed concern for the working poor is disgraceful.