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The Sandbox The Sandbox is a collection of off-topic discussions. Humorous threads, Sports talk, and a wide variety of other topics can be found here. If it's NOT hobby-related, then you're in the right place!

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Old 05-05-2011, 01:53 AM   #1
Longermonger
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Default Hassan Ghul, KSM, Abu Faraj al Libbi, and NUANCE!!!!

May 5
Suspect grilled at CIA prison gave clue
The CIA had approved use of rough techniques at “black site” in Poland.
KEN DILANIAN Tribune Washington Bureau

“The people who say ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ directly led to catching bin Laden are wrong, and the people who say they had nothing to do with it are also wrong.”
Former CIA official
WASHINGTON — An al-Qaida suspect who was subjected to harsh interrogation techniques at a secret CIA prison in early 2004 provided his interrogators with a clue — the nom de guerre of a mysterious courier — that ultimately proved crucial to finding and killing Osama bin Laden, officials said Wednesday.

The CIA had approved use of sleep deprivation, slapping, nudity, water dousing and other coercive techniques at the now-closed CIA “black site” in Poland where the Pakistani-born detainee, Hassan Ghul, was held, according to a 2005 Justice Department memo, which cited Ghul by name. Two U.S. officials said Wednesday that some of those now-prohibited practices were directed at Ghul.

Ghul was not water boarded, or subject to near-drowning, the most notorious interrogation technique and one that critics describe as torture.

Two other CIA prisoners — al-Qaida’s operations chief Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and his successor, Abu Faraj al-Libbi — gave their interrogators false information about the courier after they were water boarded repeatedly, U.S. officials said.

Those lies also played a role in the decade-long manhunt, however.

In the end, intelligence gained from interviews with numerous detainees, high-tech eavesdropping and surveillance, and other investigative spadework provided insights into people who were close to bin Laden.

The nuances of that complex chain of events were often lost Wednesday amid a renewed public debate about the efficacy and morality of coercive interrogations that the CIA carried out under President George W. Bush.

“I think the issue has been mischaracterized on both sides,” said a former CIA official who was involved in internal debate over the so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques” program at the time. “The people who say ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ directly led to catching bin Laden are wrong, and the people who say they had nothing to do with it are also wrong.”

The current CIA director, Leon Panetta, said it was impossible to know if the same information could have been gleaned without using those techniques, which have been banned under President Barack Obama.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:07 AM   #2
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Default

According to the article:
1: Waterboarding resulted in false information.
2: Methods other than waterboarding resulted in a nickname.
3: A nickname may have been obtained without these still unknown interrogation techniques.
4: The claim that information given during torture/waterboarding is unreliable is PROVEN.
5: The claim that waterboarding led to the key piece of intel is DISPROVEN.

What we're left with is borderline-now-outlawed techniques yielding a nickname that was one of the pieces of a puzzle with MANY MANY pieces that took a team of thousands and seven years to solve.

One puzzle piece, not a magic bullet. Sorry. (no I'm not..heh heh)
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:42 AM   #3
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/us...04torture.html

"The bottom line is this: If we had some kind of smoking gun intelligence from waterboarding in 2003, we would Have taken out Bin Laden in 2003." --Tommy Vietor, spokesman for the National Security Council
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