Asshat if the Week -- Jeff Wentworth

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Two weeks ago, State Senator Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, tried without success to bring Senate Bill 354 up for debate but lacked one vote. The bill if passed would allow concealed handgun licensees to pack their handguns at state colleges and universities in Texas. So what does this guy do? He tried to tack his bill onto key higher-education bill. The owner of that bill immediately withdrew her Senate Bill 5. Wentworth said he will try again.

The Chancellor of the University of Texas system is on record as opposing the bill. The President of UT-Austin opposes the bill. The overwhelming majority of the faculty at the school oppose the bill. The majority of the student organizations who have expressed opinions are against the bill.

I am also against such a bill but am willing to let each college decide for itself what to do. Aren't politicians supposed to listen to their constituencies?? What a novel idea.

[screwey]

Maybe we should allow the individuals to decide if they want to be able to protect themselves.

Art Acevedo and the latest numbers show that the police certainly are more than minutes away when immediate assistance may be needed.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by screwey

Maybe we should allow the individuals to decide if they want to be able to protect themselves.

Art Acevedo and the latest numbers show that the police certainly are more than minutes away when immediate assistance may be needed.

Life doesn't work that way. Laws are usually implemented that are in the best interests of the majority of the people. Even with a CHL, a person can't carry a concealed weapon in schools, churches, my place of business, my home, etc. That is because it was determined that there was a greater downside than upside if people were allowed to carry handguns in such places. College campuses are safe. It has been determined that allowing concealed handguns on campuses would make them less safe. Your opinion might differ and you are welcome to your opinion.

[screwey]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Life doesn't work that way. Laws are usually implemented that are in the best interests of the majority of the people. Even with a CHL, a person can't carry a concealed weapon in schools, churches, my place of business, my home, etc. That is because it was determined that there was a greater downside than upside if people were allowed to carry handguns in such places. College campuses are safe. It has been determined that allowing concealed handguns on campuses would make them less safe. Your opinion might differ and you are welcome to your opinion.

Your statements are not exactly true, and somewhat misleading.

The TX Law does provide for Churches, businesses and individuals to restrict persons from carrying on their property, with proper notice. This does not include parking lots, driveways and such, as persons are allowed to store their guns in their cars.

Please show us where this is proven:

"College campuses are safe. It has been determined that allowing concealed handguns on campuses would make them less safe."

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by screwey

Your statements are not exactly true, and somewhat misleading.

The TX Law does provide for Churches, businesses and individuals to restrict persons from carrying on their property, with proper notice. This does not include parking lots, driveways and such, as persons are allowed to store their guns in their cars.

Please show us where this is proven:

"College campuses are safe. It has been determined that allowing concealed handguns on campuses would make them less safe."

My statement was not untrue at all. I stated that guns were not allowed IN churches and schools. I did not make any statements about parking lots.

http://ope.ed.gov/security/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

This website will allow you to look at violent and non-violent crime on any college campus in the U.S. Very, very low incidences of violent crime, which is why a person would want to carry a handgun on campus.

The people who have determined that college campuses are safer without people carrying CHLs??? I can only speak for UT-Austin. The Chancellor of the UT system. The UT-Austin president. The professors. The majority of the students on campus. The local police. The campus police. All are on record as believing the UT-Austin campus would be safer without concealed handguns on campus.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by screwey

Maybe we should allow the individuals to decide if they want to be able to protect themselves.

Art Acevedo and the latest numbers show that the police certainly are more than minutes away when immediate assistance may be needed.

When was the last time someone on the University of Texas campus needed to protect themselves? August 1, 1966?

[screwey]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

My statement was not untrue at all. I stated that guns were not allowed IN churches and schools. I did not make any statements about parking lots.

The fact is they ARE allowed in Churches, unless proper notification exists. I agree concealed carry is not allowed in schools.

Why deny people the right to defend themselves, in any event? Many violent crimes on campus go un-reported, and the statistics are frequently manipulated to add a false sense of security.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by screwey

The fact is they ARE allowed in Churches, unless proper notification exists. I agree concealed carry is not allowed in schools.

Why deny people the right to defend themselves, in any event? Many violent crimes on campus go un-reported, and the statistics are frequently manipulated to add a false sense of security.

Wrong again. From the document titled "Texas Concealed Handgun Laws":

PC §46.035.

UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued
under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if
the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or
service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined
by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section
104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241,
Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed
under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the liTEXAS
CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS PC §46.04. 33

cense holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home
administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

Please show me where there is any mention of proper notification.

The colleges have determined that there is more danger in allowing CHL holders to carry their weapons on their campuses than to not allow it. We all have rights. You and Sen. Wenworth want to have the right to carry a concealed weapon on campus. Others, such as myself and the majority of people on college campuses, feel safer if such a right was not given to you. We have the right to OUR safety on campus and defend ourselves against a person with a CHL who might commit a crime with a gun.

[Budman]

There is no way you or anybody else can know if the campuses are safer by not allowing CHL holders to carry. Your opinion is that they are safer but that is only an opinion. Not based on any fact. The same as the opinion that the campus would be safer if CHL holders were allowed to carry. Another opinion. Both sides have the right to their opinion but sooner or later CHL holders will be allowed to carry on some campuses. Only then will there be data collected that could prove one side or the other correct.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Budman

There is no way you or anybody else can know if the campuses are safer by not allowing CHL holders to carry. Your opinion is that they are safer but that is only an opinion. Not based on any fact. The same as the opinion that the campus would be safer if CHL holders were allowed to carry. Another opinion. Both sides have the right to their opinion but sooner or later CHL holders will be allowed to carry on some campuses. Only then will there be data collected that could prove one side or the other correct.

Budman, I agree 100%. Never said otherwise. However, I have the right to ban handguns from my house. My company has the right to ban handguns from their premisis. And, in my opinion, a college should have the same right to do the same if they choose to do so. The state should not force the colleges to allow people with CHLs to carry handguns on campus. The FACT is that violent crime on the UT-Austin campus, over a several year period, is a rare occurance, and the people who make such decisions at the college have decided, in their OPINION, that the campus is safer without people carrying handguns.

[PornPet69]

Originally Posted by Booth

When was the last time someone on the University of Texas campus needed to protect themselves? August 1, 1966?

It was actually last year, September 28, 2010. A kid named Cholton Tooley opens fire in the UT library with an Ak47 then he shoots himself. Nobody was hurt but the shooter but this is why the bill started.

I believe students should be able to protect themselves if another incident like this occurs. Most people who have concealed handgun permits are outstanding citizens.

[Smokin Joe]

I'm more worried about getting shot by some yahoo "protecting" himself.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by PornPet69

It was actually last year, September 28, 2010. A kid named Cholton Tooley opens fire in the UT library with an Ak47 then he shoots himself. Nobody was hurt but the shooter but this is why the bill started.

I believe students should be able to protect themselves if another incident like this occurs. Most people who have concealed handgun permits are outstanding citizens.

This event came to the best possible conclusion despite the lack of armed students. No need to put more people in danger with knee jerk reactions from politicians.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by PornPet69

It was actually last year, September 28, 2010. A kid named Cholton Tooley opens fire in the UT library with an Ak47 then he shoots himself. Nobody was hurt but the shooter but this is why the bill started.

I believe students should be able to protect themselves if another incident like this occurs. Most people who have concealed handgun permits are outstanding citizens.

Your 3rd sentence is incorrect. Sen. Wentworth brought this bill up in 2009 and didn't get it out for discussion. Tried again this year (the legislature only meets every other year) and again could not get it out for discussion. Only then did he try to back-door the bill by adding it to another amendment. Had nothing to do with the incident on the UT campus earlier this year.

EVERY person who has a concealed handgun permit is a law-abiding citizen. You can't get a CHL otherwise. Every criminal is a law-abiding citizens until he breaks the law.

Do you think the college administrations have some vested interest in being opposed to allowing concealed handguns on campus? Do you think that the college administrations don't believe they are acting in the best interests of the people on their campuses by not allowing concealed handguns on campus?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Booth

This event came to the best possible conclusion despite the lack of armed students. No need to put more people in danger with knee jerk reactions from politicians.

The knee jerk reaction is from those supporting the bill, IMHO. Violent crime on college campuses is usually much lower than in other areas off-campus.

You do realize that the CHL law has been in affect in Texas for something like 15 years and a whopping 1.8% of elibible Texans have CHLs. My guess is that college students/faculty/administration would be even less likely than that to carry guns if given the opportunity.