I've been stopped by a cop. What do I do now? STFU!

[ShysterJon]

(The following is a slightly modified version of my post in the following thread:

"Being Prepared--What to Do if the Cops Show Up"

There is an old lawyer's adage: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." In other words, you might not be convicted of the offense, but you'll not be spared the indignity, expense, and trouble of being arrested for the offense.

Can you say something to a cop to avoid being arrested for prostitution -- that is, without speaking, you'll be arrested, but if you speak, you won't be arrested? As I argue below, I think's it's far more likely that speaking will increase your chances of arrest, not decrease them.

In my view, remaining silent while being questioned will in all likelihood help a person in ALL STAGES of a criminal case -- arrest, charging, plea bargaining, and trial. Under the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Miranda v. Arizona, a police officer is required to advise a criminal suspect prior to questioning (among other things): "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." But that doesn't mean that statements you make prior to being Mirandized (that is, before the cop will say he deemed you a suspect in a crime) can't be used against you then and later -- In fact, your voluntary statements can be used against you in all stages of a criminal case, like heavy stones hung around your neck as you walk a path through the criminal justice system.

Bear in mind that a cop should make an arrest because he/she has probable cause that a criminal offense has been committed based on evidence, but in reality a cop will at times make an arrest based on mere suspicion, not evidence. A cop doesn't have to believe you're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to arrest you. That decision would be made on another day by a judge or jury. All a cop needs to arrest you is a reasonable belief that an offense was or is being committed. (As an aside, in Texas, probable cause is also all a prosecutor needs to charge you with a misdemeanor or a grand jury needs to indict you for a felony.)

To me, the issue is not whether a person should speak -- it's why they should NOT speak. In my view, a detained person should probably not speak because to do so might create evidence (or suspicion in the cop's mind) that may be used as probable cause to arrest them, by the prosecutor or grand jury to charge them, or as evidence in a trial.

STFU Rule No. 1. You probably can't lie convincingly enough to escape arrest, but you can lie unconvincingly enough to get arrested.

What you say to a cop can be a lie or the truth. Let's consider lying first.

Some of you may think: Hey, I'm smarter than a cop. I can make up a story the cop will believe and he won't arrest me. If you think that, you might as well have 'ARREST ME' tattooed on your forehead (or 'BORN LOSER' tattooed on your bicep) because cops listen to people lie all day and they're pretty good at sifting the wheat from the chaff. While you might have a higher I.Q. than the average cop, chances are the cop's bullshit detector works better than the bullshit producer right below your nose.

Something the cop perceived probably caused the cop to start questioning you. (Example: You're in your car on Harry Hines at 2:00 a.m. with your window rolled down, talking to a SW.) Once the encounter begins you probably can't change the cop's perception of what he saw. Chances are you'll only make matters worse by telling him some cock and bull story. (Example: "I stopped to talk to her because she looks like my next-door neighbor.") You could be Stephen Fucking King and you couldn't weave a believable story under the stress. Also, people don't like being lied to -- it pisses them off. Again, the cop will probably know you're lying. So if you lie you'll not just have a cop in your face -- you might have a pissed-off cop in your face.

STFU Rule No. 2. Don't tell the truth because the cop is not your friend: He's the guy who wants to bust your balls.

Some people think that being cooperative and truthful to the police will lessen their chance of being arrested. They may even naively think that if they volunteer information the cop will think they're a swell guy and won't arrest them. But I can assure you that if a cop has detained you to question you under the suspicion of having committed a criminal offense, if you speak you are not helping to escape arrest -- you are helping the cop gather enough evidence to arrest you. As I've written before, if you're involved in the hobby, a cop is not talking to you to help you -- he's talking to you to gather evidence to be used against you. Under these circumstances, the truth will not set you free -- it may put your ass in Sterrett.


Think of old WW II movies where a soldier would be captured and only give his "name, rank, and serial number." That's like what you should do if a cop questions you. If you're not driving, you're only required to produce ID. That's it. You do NOT have to answer the cop's questions. If you're driving, you're only required to produce ID and proof of insurance. (If you're unlucky enough to live in a state other than Texas, you might be required to produce your registration.) A driver does not have to answer a cop's questions, either.

Are we clear on this, boys and girls?

STFU.

[LazurusLong]

So if I'm walking down the street and a policeman stops me, I'm certain he'll start with questions before even asking for my ID.

Stuff like:
What are you doing?
Where did you come from?
Where are you going?

Do you just hand over your ID and remain quiet since all you are required to do is to identify yourself if you are not driving?

What happens if the officer is asking questions but has not yet even asked for an ID, how would you handle that?

After any of the above questions, should I simply say something like:
"My name is Lazurus Long". Would you like to see my ID?" and not answer any other questions?

Doesn't the appearance of being familiar with the "process" raise a flag to the officer that you might have had enough contact with the law to know to STFU?

I was told once in a Crime Watch meeting that if someone in my block saw someone doing something that looked wrong, they should use words such as "9-1-1, there's a person acting suspicious walking slowly on the sidewalk and they appear to be trying to look in windows. Very suspicious to me.

Or, "There a dark sedan slowly driving down the street acting suspicious. "

We were told by a police communications officer at the meeting that the word "suspicious" used when making a 9-1-1 call escalates the situation so that the police procedure requires them to pat down the person or gives them reasonable cause to search the vehicle because they will have a 9-1-1 call that gave them a reasonable belief something was wrong with the person or vehicle.

Do you know anything about the truth behind what that communications officer told the Crime Watch meeting?

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

So if I'm walking down the street and a policeman stops me, I'm certain he'll start with questions before even asking for my ID.

Stuff like:
What are you doing?
Where did you come from?
Where are you going?

Do you just hand over your ID and remain quiet since all you are required to do is to identify yourself if you are not driving?

What happens if the officer is asking questions but has not yet even asked for an ID, how would you handle that?

After any of the above questions, should I simply say something like:
"My name is Lazurus Long". Would you like to see my ID?" and not answer any other questions?

It depends on the circumstances. If all you're doing is innocently walking down the street, I don't see a problem with answering a few questions -- politely and sticking only with answering those questions. If you think the cop is asking too many questions, you might politely ask, "Am I free to leave?" At that point the cop should say yes, so leave. But if you're walking down the street with a bloody human head in your hand, you might decline to answer questions. I wouldn't suggest telling a cop your name is LazarusLong, since that's not your real name. Haha.

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

Doesn't the appearance of being familiar with the "process" raise a flag to the officer that you might have had enough contact with the law to know to STFU?

I don't think so. My experience is the more contacts a person has with LE the less likely they are to handle the next contact well. Sterrett isn't full of saavy cat burglars who steal diamonds -- it's full of mostly dumb street punks. If you show you're streetwise with a cop, he might conclude you're a lawyer. Or that you read this thread. Haha.

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

I was told once in a Crime Watch meeting that if someone in my block saw someone doing something that looked wrong, they should use words such as "9-1-1, there's a person acting suspicious walking slowly on the sidewalk and they appear to be trying to look in windows. Very suspicious to me.

Or, "There a dark sedan slowly driving down the street acting suspicious. "

We were told by a police communications officer at the meeting that the word "suspicious" used when making a 9-1-1 call escalates the situation so that the police procedure requires them to pat down the person or gives them reasonable cause to search the vehicle because they will have a 9-1-1 call that gave them a reasonable belief something was wrong with the person or vehicle.

Do you know anything about the truth behind what that communications officer told the Crime Watch meeting?

I've never heard of the word "suspicious" being used as a magic word allowing for warrantless searches when in a different case a warrantless search wouldn't be allowed. Maybe what the police dispatcher was talking about is the requirement that a cop have "reasonable suspicion" that a crime has been committed before he can make a street or trafffic stop. A "reasonable suspicion" is a lesser degree of proof than "probable cause." "Probable cause" is needed to conduct a warrantless search.

Your hypotheticals are a mixed bag of different factual situations, so I'll take them one by one.

1. If the police got a report that a man was peeping in windows, a cop would certainly have the right to detain the suspect and question him. Peeping in windows is, per se, a criminal offense. So be careful there, LL. Haha.

2. I'm not sure how someone "drives suspiciously." I think a cop would need more than the fact that someone was driving slowly to make a valid stop. That doesn't mean a cop WOULDN'T make a stop. A study was done a few years ago showing the relation between race and traffic stops in Highland Park. As I recall, statistics showed you were more than ten times more likely to be stopped in that city if you're black or Hispanic, compared with white drivers. I think DWB and DWH are both crimes under the HP City Code. Haha.

3. A cop can't conduct a warrantless search of a vehicle unless, for example, it's impounded, the driver consents, or the cop has probable cause a crime has been committed AND the search would relate to the alleged crime. So if someone reported a "suspicious vehicle" to the police, that wouldn't be enough to conduct a warrantless search.

4. A cop is permitted to do a pat-down search of a person he detains if he has a reasonable suspicion the person may have a weapon.

[Jules Jaguar]

lol @bloody human head!!!

but all jokes aside that is great advice

[Sleepy363]

I'm just going to tell them "Some shyster told me not to talk to you"

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by still-asleep

I'm just going to tell them "Some shyster told me not to talk to you"

Funny, but that's basically what I tell my clients to say: "Officer, I'd love to talk to you, but I have this a-hole of a lawyer who won't let me. He said he'd be happy to talk to you. Here's his number."

[sky_wire]

If it’s a female police officer, I ask to speak with her husband on my cell phone. I politely explain that his baby mama needs a bitch slapping when she gets home. I further explain that it’s not my job to control his ho, and he needs to man up and handle his bitch.

That usually settles the problem, and I’m allowed to continue on my way. Nearly all female police officers actually enjoy dealing with male chauvinist pigs. Give it a whirl the next time your stopped by a woman with a badge.

[5150]

Few other things to remember when dealing with cops they are allowed to LIE when questioning you. Example; that gas station attendant told me he saw you give this lady $40.00. That may or may not have been the case but it will allow him a chance to see how you react and see what you say. The other thing cops are famous for is telling you that if you confess the judge and DA will go easier on you. Remember once you are in the criminal justice system you are just a number and frankly cops get there jollies by destroying someone’s life (even if innocent) than doing the right thing which is to discover the truth and evidence to support that truth and then turn it over to the DA to decide what to do.

The best thing you can ever do is to keep your mouth shut and lawyer up.

[Bobave]

As SJ noted, prisons are populated by *incompetent and unsuccessful* criminals...

[Guest122610]

"My name is Lazurus Long".

Do not give them this info. They will then tie you to another 20 cases based on your reviews..

Informative and funny thread here. Good info, but all cannot be covered in one post, most of the time.

1) No disrespect intended, but all lawyers say lawyer up.. I don't think it is always the best way to go. Take PI as an example, the fine is small, the burden of proof is small. You could take several days off work as he reschedules the case. Pay the fee, and still be convicted. If you are a man and have young daughters with a somewhat intelligent and decent woman, the two of you could spend 10's of thousands on lawyers "fighting for your kids", in a divorce, but the man will lose.

2) Always conduct yourself as if your being recorded, until you know it's clear. You pull up to a woman on HH's and say how's it going. You have not broken any laws at this point. There are many things that the ladies and men do and say at this point to make sure neither are LE. On Bourbon street in NO, it seems to be you touch each other’s privates. Maybe SJ can clear this up for us. If I only pulled up to a SW (I do not do this BTW) and said bla bla bla. Drove off (or still there) and LE pulled me over. I would say I did not know there were prostitutes in this area, and I thought this lady was interested in me, so I was checking her out. I would try anything I could say to avoid being arrested. Do not agree on fees for sex. I can pay a lady any amount for any amount of her time. If you are dumb enough to tell the cop that you were horny because your SO does not do it for you, and just wanted a woman, do not talk at all, and hire SJ.

[Guest071613-2]

So I guess asking to suck my way out of trouble is out of the question then?


I have actually refused to let them search my vehicle upon request once, just to see what would happen since I was doing nothing wrong anyhow. They fucked with me, saying they were calling to get a warrant, but I called their bluff and said that was fine, I'd wait for them to get everything they needed. It was well over an hour before they let me on my way, but they did let me go eventually.

STFU is very good advice

[cowboyesfan]

1) No disrespect intended, but all lawyers say lawyer up.. I don't think it is always the best way to go.

This a pretty good video of a presentation to a law class by a professor on why you should never to talk to cops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

The second part is a policeman in the class explaining why you should never talk to cops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

[mansfield]

No disrespect intended, but all lawyers say lawyer up.

Yeah, everybody hates lawyers til they need one....

There's an old saying; "Never do business with a rich salesman or a poor lawyer".

[Admiral Nelson]

I have a question: if I am asked to step out of my vehicle, should I immediately lock it after exiting to prevent ease of access and search? Does doing so demonstrate that I do NOT consent to search?

Admiral Nelson pinging Active

[mansfield]

if I am asked to step out of my vehicle, should I immediately lock it after exiting to prevent ease of access and search? Does doing so demonstrate that I do NOT consent to search?

I've always been told to lock the vehicle that way and if asked why I locked it just reply "habit".