The End of Liberal Zionism

[Jewish Lawyer]

The End of Liberal Zionism - Just Another Liberal Failure

Israel’s Move to the Right Challenges Diaspora Jews - The New York TImes

LONDON — Liberal Zionists are at a crossroads. The original tradition of combining Zionism and liberalism — which meant ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, supporting a Palestinian state as well as a Jewish state with a permanent Jewish majority, and standing behind Israel when it was threatened — was well intentioned. But everything liberal Zionists stand for is now in doubt.
The decision of Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to launch a military campaign against Hamas in Gaza has cost the lives, to date, of 64 soldiers and three civilians on the Israeli side, and nearly 2,000 Palestinians, the majority of whom were civilians.
“Never do liberal Zionists feel more torn than when Israel is at war,” wrote Jonathan Freedland, The Guardian’s opinion editor and a leading British liberal Zionist, for The New York Review of Books last month. He’s not alone. Columnists like Jonathan Chait, Roger Cohen and Thomas L. Friedman have all riffed in recent weeks on the theme that what Israel is doing can’t be reconciled with their humanism.
But it’s not just Gaza, and the latest episode of “shock and awe” militarism. The romantic Zionist ideal, to which Jewish liberals — and I was one, once — subscribed for so many decades, has been tarnished by the reality of modern Israel. The attacks on freedom of speech and human rights organizations in Israel, the land-grabbing settler movement, a growing strain of anti-Arab and anti-immigrant racism, extremist politics, and a powerful, intolerant religious right — this mixture has pushed liberal Zionism to the brink.

read more http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/op...jews.html?_r=0

[BigLouie]

Rereading history of Jewish revolts, from Bar-Kochba to the destr by Titus. Eerily similar to Palestinian revolts.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Rereading history of Jewish revolts, from Bar-Kochba to the destr by Titus. Eerily similar to Palestinian revolts.

Could you elaborate?

[Yssup Rider]

Interesting story. Of course I don't see anything in there calling this "another liberal failure," or proving it.

Agree or disagree, it's a good article.

Yet, predictably, you've turned it into another showcase for your hateful intolerance. Geeat job IBHomo!

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Interesting story. Of course I don't see anything in there calling this "another liberal failure," or proving it.

Agree or disagree, it's a good article.

Yet, predictably, you've turned it into another showcase for your hateful intolerance. Geeat job IBHomo!

You contend that my words, "Just another liberal failure" add up to hateful intolerance?
That is all I wrote.

[IIFFOFRDB]

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

You contend that my words, "Just another liberal failure" add up to hateful intolerance?
That is all I wrote.

Add that to your constantly published wishes of harm and even death to people who disagree with your political ideology and I'd say that's a big YEP!

How do those words have any reference to the content you quoted, cut and pasted?

You're the failure, IBHomo. Can't even stand on your own two knuckles.

[BigLouie]

IIFFOFRDB do you even bother to read the thread before posting stuff about Obama? Do you even know what we are talking about here?

[BigLouie]

Seems the whole Zionist thing is getting combative after the back and forth in the New York Times:

Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for 'Gaza massacre,' call for boycott

In response to Elie Wiesel advertisement comparing Hamas to Nazis, 327 Jewish Holocaust survivors and descendants publish New York Times ad accusing Israel of 'ongoing massacre of the Palestinian people.'

Hundreds of Holocaust survivors and descendants of survivors have signed a letter, published as an advertisement in Saturday's New York Times, condemning "the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza" and calling for a complete boycott of Israel.

According to the letter, the condemnation was prompted by an advertisement written by Elie Wiesel and published in major news outlets worldwide, accusing Hamas of "child sacrifice" and comparing the group to the Nazis.

The letter, signed by 327 Jewish Holocaust survivors and descendants of survivors and sponsored by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network, accuses Wiesel of "abuse of history" in order to justify Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip:

"…we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water."

The letter also blames the United States of aiding Israel in its Gaza operation, and the West in general of protecting Israel from condemnation.

"Genocide begins with the silence of the world," the letter reads.

The letter ends with a call to bring the blockade of Gaza to an immediate end, and for a full boycott of Israel. "Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!," the letter concludes.

Full text of letter:

"Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza

"As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.

"We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.

"Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.

"We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. “Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"

[Yssup Rider]

BL -- the "whole Zionist thing" has been combative since the days predating the UN mandate that carved Israel out of the Middle East.

Jews have been split on their support of various Israeli governments since the nation came I to being. as I recall, Jews were even split in the actual creation of Israel in the first place.

In my opinion, the fact that Netanyahu's regime leans so far to the right has only exascerbated that split. Add in American fundamental Chritstians trying to cleanse the land in anticipation of you know who's return , and various, ahem, right wing "interests," and it should be easy to see how things have become so complicated over there.

Of course, I speak for myself. I'd love to see peace and cooperation over there. I want the killing to stop. I want to visit Israel in my lifetime.

But I'm sure that opinion makes me a bad guy with the Idiot Klan and other ECCIE mavens to whom Israel was meaningless just a few years ago,

So be it.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

How do those words have any reference to the content you quoted, cut and pasted?

Israel has moved to the right, because liberalism isn't cutting it. The article says it better than I can.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Seems the whole Zionist thing is getting combative after the back and forth in the New York Times:

Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for 'Gaza massacre,' call for boycott

In response to Elie Wiesel advertisement comparing Hamas to Nazis, 327 Jewish Holocaust survivors and descendants publish New York Times ad accusing Israel of 'ongoing massacre of the Palestinian people.'

Hundreds of Holocaust survivors and descendants of survivors have signed a letter, published as an advertisement in Saturday's New York Times, condemning "the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza" and calling for a complete boycott of Israel.

According to the letter, the condemnation was prompted by an advertisement written by Elie Wiesel and published in major news outlets worldwide, accusing Hamas of "child sacrifice" and comparing the group to the Nazis.

The letter, signed by 327 Jewish Holocaust survivors and descendants of survivors and sponsored by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network, accuses Wiesel of "abuse of history" in order to justify Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip:

"…we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water."

The letter also blames the United States of aiding Israel in its Gaza operation, and the West in general of protecting Israel from condemnation.

"Genocide begins with the silence of the world," the letter reads.

The letter ends with a call to bring the blockade of Gaza to an immediate end, and for a full boycott of Israel. "Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!," the letter concludes.

Full text of letter:

"Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza

"As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.

"We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.

"Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.

"We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. “Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"

Israel's actions look hard to defend from the outside, I get it. The Palestinians have no way to attack except from the cover of an urban area, so we have to bomb their launch sites. Innocent people get killed.

BigLouie, what can we do differently to defend ourselves from rocket attacks?

America bombed and killed 100,000 people in Dresden in one night during WWII. That was purely to punish Germany. America also nuked the Japanese.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

America bombed and killed 100,000 people in Dresden in one night during WWII. That was purely to punish Germany. America also nuked the Japanese.

... and to "impress" Uncle Joe.

[Yssup Rider]

IBIdiot, are you condoning or condemning the US's actions during WWII?

Can't really tell based on your circular post. In fact, it looks like you opposed the US during WWII. Is that because you WORSHIP HITLER?

Of course it is.

Easy to read like a fucking comic book you are.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

IBIdiot, are you condoning or condemning the US's actions during WWII?

Can't really tell based on your circular post. In fact, it looks like you opposed the US during WWII. Is that because you WORSHIP HITLER?

Of course it is.

Easy to read like a fucking comic book you are.

Looks like we have peace!! Hope it lasts...