Did Trump attempt to assassinate Biden in the Debate?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

That's one hell of a mutation for a family of Viruses that in the past have been responsible for generally mild illness.

The MERS coronavirus had a case fatality rate of 34%. The SARS coronavirus had a case fatality rate of 14.5%. To date, COVID 19 has had a case fatality rate of 2.9%. And there are indeed also coronaviruses that cause mild illnesses.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

The MERS coronavirus had a case fatality rate of 34%. The SARS coronavirus had a case fatality rate of 14.5%. To date, COVID 19 has had a case fatality rate of 2.9%. And there are indeed also coronaviruses that cause mild illnesses.

That's true. The family of Corona viruses is quite large. In fact different strains of these viruses can affect animals such as cattle, Pigs, Horses and even Dogs. Humans experience Corona Viruses in what we might refer to as a "Cold". Generally these viruses aren't fatal. So I really have to ask the question, if this Corona Virus was not manipulated and was naturally occurring what factors were involved to cause it to mutate and make it so devastating in terms of cases and deaths? Could the same thing happen to the seasonal Flu virus?

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...1. They say, "If genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone."...

2. The protein spike that the coronavirus uses to attach itself to human and animal cells evolved through natural selection, not in a laboratory.

Just walking the logic for a second:
So if SARS-COV-2 has no similarities to SARS-COV-1. Why does it have a 2 at the end?


You explanation for a bat virus preferring to attach to human ACE2 is reasonable how? Especially considering it seems to prefer nothing else in nature.

[rexdutchman]

from something that has a surviviblty rate of 98.9 % yeah okays

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

So I really have to ask the question, if this Corona Virus was not manipulated and was naturally occurring what factors were involved to cause it to mutate and make it so devastating in terms of cases and deaths? Could the same thing happen to the seasonal Flu virus?

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

You explanation for a bat virus preferring to attach to human ACE2 is reasonable how? Especially considering it seems to prefer nothing else in nature.

I've got to get to work so can't look at the Nature paper I linked to, but a better answer, right or wrong, probably lies in it. They had evidence that the mutations that are the crux of this question occurred naturally.

You might Google "minks" and Covid. Thousands of minks have died from Covid 19. Other animals have died from it as well.

I don't think Covid 19 is necessarily any less lethal to certain animals once they're infected than humans. However, the protein spike, as Why_Yes_I_Do says, has evolved so that it can more easily attach to human ACE2. ACE2 is an enzyme that in turn is attached to cells of the heart, lungs, etc.

This isn't surprising. Covid is spreading like wildfire through the human population because there are lots of us, we have air travel, etc. I suspect a bat colony in a cave in southern China may just rarely come into contact with bats from other colonies. Or maybe an epidemic is contained to a single mink farm.

As time passes, the Covid 19 mutates and through natural selection finds ways to better infect its hosts, like better attaching to human ACE2.

Levianon as to your point about the flu, perhaps the 1918 Spanish flu was just as deadly. As to why it mutated so quickly, maybe it didn't. Maybe it was in Wuhan for 6 months or more and people mistook it for the flu. But yeah, I get it. When you think about mutations and their effects on species, you think about thousands or even millions of years. This is above your and my pay grades, we probably need some kind of biologist or virologist to explain it. You'd think viruses and single celled organisms mutate a whole lot faster than we do. Their life spans are certainly much shorter. And they reproduce much, much faster.

[reddog1951]

Tiny- a virus is not a single cell organism, it isn't an organism at all. In fact is technically not considered to be living. It is basically a piece of RNA or DNA, maybe with a protein or glycoprotein "coat" that chances to find a molecular "match" on a host cell. I think of it like pollen for those allergic, no stalking or purposeful attach, its not alive. One attached, the virus tricks the host cell to replicate the viral genome instead of the cell's native genes. Kinda analogous to malicious computer code.

[winn dixie]

The chinese wuhan virus is a biological weapon that was unleashed by china!
china needs to be accountable for this terror weapon!

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by winn dixie

The chinese wuhan virus is a biological weapon that was unleashed by china!
china needs to be accountable for this terror weapon!

Reposted for the slow short bus riders!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Tiny- a virus is not a single cell organism, it isn't an organism at all. In fact is technically not considered to be living. It is basically a piece of RNA or DNA, maybe with a protein or glycoprotein "coat" that chances to find a molecular "match" on a host cell. I think of it like pollen for those allergic, no stalking or purposeful attach, its not alive. One attached, the virus tricks the host cell to replicate the viral genome instead of the cell's native genes. Kinda analogous to malicious computer code.

Reddog, I did remember from high school biology that the virus inserts RNA into a host cell and takes over and that's about the extent of my knowledge. You most likely know a lot more about this than the rest of us. Any thoughts on how natural selection works with a virus and how quickly the virus can evolve?

I did run across this on Google,

Why do viruses evolve so fast?

Viruses evolve faster than humans. Why is this the case?
As we saw in the case of HIV, some viruses have a high mutation rate, which helps them evolve quickly by providing more variation as starting material. Two other factors that contribute to the fast evolution of viruses are large population size and rapid lifecycle.

The bigger the population, the higher the odds that it'll have a virus with a particular random mutation (e.g., one for drug resistance or high infectivity) on which natural selection can act. Also, viruses reproduce quickly, so their populations evolve on shorter timescales than those of their hosts. For instance, the HIV virus goes through its lifecycle in just 52 hours, as compared to roughly 20 years for the human lifecycle!

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/...e%20this%20way.

[oeb11]

i did post the Chinese refugee scientists opinion the wuhan virus was manufactured. by chinese scientists.

No corroboration I consider factual has so far appeared, IMHO.

wuhan is a mutable virus with several subtypes and spontaneous mutability.
It did originate in wuhan china - and Xi exported it to the world, while locking down his own country.

Xi committed an ACT of wAr against the world for economic benefit - and the DPST's are slavishly at xi's feet in praise and adulation over it.

Doubtful the Chinese specifically manufactured it - but certainly took advantage of their lab screw up and released it to the world.

as Clyburn stated - "Never let a good crisis go to waste"!

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Tiny- a virus is not a single cell organism, it isn't an organism at all. In fact is technically not considered to be living. It is basically a piece of RNA or DNA, maybe with a protein or glycoprotein "coat" that chances to find a molecular "match" on a host cell. I think of it like pollen for those allergic, no stalking or purposeful attach, its not alive. One attached, the virus tricks the host cell to replicate the viral genome instead of the cell's native genes. Kinda analogous to malicious computer code.

RD - a nice summation of viral cycle - I believe you correct in summarizing a difficult topic.

[SecretE]

So, a guy who has a big ego and thinks he is going to win legitimately, would stoop to assassination? This has to be the silliest thread topic I have seen here yet.

[reddog1951]

Tiny, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. I'm fairly learned in the field, but certainly no expert especially at the molecular. I will offer another snippet though. Mutations (in general, not just viruses) are caused by errors made by the cell's machinery while transcribing the genetic code so that a different nucleotide is used other than the one called for in the original template. In the case of covid in humans, it's therefore our own cell's that generate the transcription errors and lead to mutations. If I recall correctly, these errors are more likely to occur in older cells or cell lines, so maybe us old farts really are the problem. Not all mutations are necessarily problematic. Many (most?) are "fatal", meaning in a virus's case, that it could render the subsequent ineffective in attaching to hosts, hijacking the host cell mechanisms,etc. Highly simplified explanation, but I probably sound in terms of basic understanding.

[adav8s28]

No more than he tried with anyone else when he went out in public without a mask.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Doubtful the Chinese specifically manufactured it - but certainly took advantage of their lab screw up and released it to the world.

as Clyburn stated - "Never let a good crisis go to waste"!

Yes Oeb, if they had been less tight lipped and worked with the WHO and our CDC, and not pushed other countries to maintain travel to and from China, things might have turned out much differently.

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Tiny, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. I'm fairly learned in the field, but certainly no expert especially at the molecular. I will offer another snippet though. Mutations (in general, not just viruses) are caused by errors made by the cell's machinery while transcribing the genetic code so that a different nucleotide is used other than the one called for in the original template. In the case of covid in humans, it's therefore our own cell's that generate the transcription errors and lead to mutations. If I recall correctly, these errors are more likely to occur in older cells or cell lines, so maybe us old farts really are the problem. Not all mutations are necessarily problematic. Many (most?) are "fatal", meaning in a virus's case, that it could render the subsequent ineffective in attaching to hosts, hijacking the host cell mechanisms,etc. Highly simplified explanation, but I probably sound in terms of basic understanding.

Thanks Reddog, good explanation