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Point 1: If you think I am in favor of socialized medicine:
1. You don't know what socialized medicine is.
2. I have never said I favor socialized medicine.
Point 2: Biden has not come out in favor of either socialized medicine or even Medicare for All.
"Many of the top Democratic primary candidates have embraced Bernie Sanders’s Medicare-for-all plan, which would essentially eliminate private health insurance.
Biden hasn’t. He also hasn’t rolled out his health care platform, as Vox’s Sarah Kliff recently wrote, but he seems likely to present a center-left alternative to single-payer."
Point 3: You are correct in that Obamacare has its faults. Let's fix them rather than start anew. Trumpcare would have taken away insurance coverage for up to 23 million people over the next decade. Luckily for Republicans the GOP replacement plan never reached the Senate floor for a vote. And the people approve of Obamacare for the most part:
Point 4: I am a capitalist. However, I do support lending a helping hand to those less fortunate than I am in the form of welfare, food stamps, unemployment insurance, etc. Not handouts. If you, or a family member or friend, has had the misfortune of being temporarily out of a job and needed temporary assistance, you would know what I mean.
Unemployment insurance is just what it says...insurance paid by the employer...not from the tax payers...you don't know what you're saying...how is anyone suppose to know what you mean??
Obummercare is a HUGE Gumment subsidy costing me and millions of others in the form of higher premiums than I have ever paid...my out of pocket health insurance has gone up 65% since the UN affordable care nightmare and shows no signs of slowing down.
Socialist medicine does work anywhere...when the Gumment decides when you will receive healthcare and what healthcare they allow for you...they pick who lives and who dies...the rich Saudis come here for the best healthcare in the world and you and your ilk want to destroy that.
Yeah Speed why don't you tell us the winning strategy for the Dem Presidential nominee...ANYTHING BUT TRUMP...and I will give you everything you ever wanted and the rich will pay for it...like Obummercare that people approve of...for the most part!!
P.S. By the way SPEED since you say I don't know what socialized medicine is please enlighten me and highlight some success stores...I like that you're a "Capitalist" for Socialized medicine.
Unemployment insurance is just what it says...insurance paid by the employer...not from the tax payers...you don't know what you're saying...how is anyone suppose to know what you mean??
Obummercare is a HUGE Gumment subsidy costing me and millions of others in the form of higher premiums than I have ever paid...my out of pocket health insurance has gone up 65% since the UN affordable care nightmare and shows no signs of slowing down.
Socialist medicine does work anywhere...when the Gumment decides when you will receive healthcare and what healthcare they allow for you...they pick who lives and who dies...the rich Saudis come here for the best healthcare in the world and you and your ilk want to destroy that.
Yeah Speed why don't you tell us the winning strategy for the Dem Presidential nominee...ANYTHING BUT TRUMP...and I will give you everything you ever wanted and the rich will pay for it!!
Unemployment insurance is just what it says...insurance paid by the employer...not from the tax payers...you don't know what you're saying...how is anyone suppose to know what you mean??
Obummercare is a HUGE Gumment subsidy costing me and millions of others in the form of higher premiums than I have ever paid...my out of pocket health insurance has gone up 65% since the UN affordable care nightmare and shows no signs of slowing down.
Socialist medicine does work anywhere...when the Gumment decides when you will receive healthcare and what healthcare they allow for you...they pick who lives and who dies...the rich Saudis come here for the best healthcare in the world and you and your ilk want to destroy that.
Yeah Speed why don't you tell us the winning strategy for the Dem Presidential nominee...ANYTHING BUT TRUMP...and I will give you everything you ever wanted and the rich will pay for it...like Obummercare that people approve of...for the most part!!
P.S. By the way SPEED since you say I don't know what socialized medicine is please enlighten me and highlight some success stores...I like that you're a "Capitalist" for Socialized medicine.
You failed to either read or comprehend my Point 1.
"I never said I favor socialized medicine."
Yes, Obamacare has cost many people a great deal of money. It has also allowed many millions of people who were unable to purchase insurance in the past the ability to do so. Obamacare did not impact me negatively in any way -- even before I became eligible for Medicare. But I have several friends who were negatively impacted. So FIX the problems with Obamacare. Don't repeal it. This is an opinion shared by most people in this country. The program proposed by Trump and other Republicans would have been a disaster and thankfully enough Senators saw that and the plan never came to a vote.
Is that the only example y'all have got....Venezuela???
I mean, I can use one guy that is a rapist to define all guys, but that's not how it works.
The fuck, man. Get some new material.
I've got a lot of examples.
You condemn capitalism. That would indicate your definition of socialism is the old fashioned one - the government controls the means of production. If so, the only examples you've got are Cuba, North Korea, and Venezuela. They're all basket cases.
If by socialism you mean "big government", like some of the western European governments, you're still wrong. Google something like
government expenditures as % GDP by country
taxes as % GDP by country
Per capita GDP adjusted for purchasing power by country
Compare the lists of countries you come up with. Kick out all the tiny countries, population under say 500,000, and the petro states like Kuwait and Norway. You'll find the most prosperous countries in the world, Singapore, Switzerland, the USA, Ireland and Hong Kong, have the smallest tax burdens and government expenditures.
If you move the USA to this definition of socialism, big government, you're looking at about a 20% drop in per capita GDP, best case. Worst case, you do it like AOC or Elizabeth Warren and don't pay for it but instead run up the government debt, you've potentially in the long term got a much bleaker situation than a 20% drop.
You've got a point, people at the bottom don't always have a fighting chance. Do something about it by helping them, not by destroying capitalism. The school system is a good place to start. Your idea of a higher minimum wage is another good idea. One of the big problems is the left wing Democrats want to keep people poor so they'll get more votes.
Yes, Obamacare has cost many people a great deal of money. It has also allowed many millions of people who were unable to purchase insurance in the past the ability to do so. Obamacare did not impact me negatively in any way -- even before I became eligible for Medicare. But I have several friends who were negatively impacted. So FIX the problems with Obamacare. Don't repeal it. This is an opinion shared by most people in this country. The program proposed by Trump and other Republicans would have been a disaster and thankfully enough Senators saw that and the plan never came to a vote.
And there's the rub. The "intent" of Obamacare was to fail and become the stepping stone for the government to swoop in and save the day with single payer. Obama basically said as much when he admitted it was the best he could do and considered it a stepping stone moving forward. And much of that was predicated with the assumption that they would have an heir apparent to Obama to carry on his legacy.
Thankfully, the people woke up and took the House in 2010, the Senate in 2014, and the POTUS in 2016.
All of the problems with it are the classic democrat initiative problems in that it's not sustainable without massive redistribution of wealth. How do you fix that?
And there's the rub. The "intent" of Obamacare was to fail and become the stepping stone for the government to swoop in and save the day with single payer. Obama basically said as much when he admitted it was the best he could do and considered it a stepping stone moving forward. And much of that was predicated with the assumption that they would have an heir apparent to Obama to carry on his legacy.
Thankfully, the people woke up and took the House in 2010, the Senate in 2014, and the POTUS in 2016.
All of the problems with it are the classic democrat initiative problems in that it's not sustainable without massive redistribution of wealth. How do you fix that?
not to mention that the fact that Obmacare is unfixable.
fixing one provision breaks another provision some where in the code. it will take years to straighten it out.
its a complicated hot mess that didn't need to be created in the first place.
You failed to either read or comprehend my Point 1.
"I never said I favor socialized medicine."
Yes, Obamacare has cost many people a great deal of money. It has also allowed many millions of people who were unable to purchase insurance in the past the ability to do so. Obamacare did not impact me negatively in any way -- even before I became eligible for Medicare. But I have several friends who were negatively impacted. So FIX the problems with Obamacare. Don't repeal it. This is an opinion shared by most people in this country. The program proposed by Trump and other Republicans would have been a disaster and thankfully enough Senators saw that and the plan never came to a vote.
Your turncoat McVain...who lied like always...don't mislead how the Republicans voted as a majority!!
Obummercare is only popular with the people getting massive Gumment subsidies
You never elaborated on the great success of Socialized medicine...it's the left's greatest wish to force this shit on the American people...No Republican voted on this terrible legislation...and rightfully so.
You being a hummmm....Capitalist should know better...I guess your a bleeding heart capitalist
What was the Republican program...SPEED????
P.S. As if you didn't know obummercare is one step away for socialized medicine...can't have it both ways SPEED.
Terrible analogy. Socialism is where you shoot both rats in the leg, so they're worse off but more equal. They don't compete and run a race but instead sit around on their rat asses and deposit their government checks.
I kind of agree though that a higher minimum wage would make sense. $100k a year is too much, $15 an hour might make sense. It should probably vary from state to state, and as it is I believe the states are free to set a minimum wage
You call that, an analogy?
Shoot people...in the leg....and, blame them for not...being able to run? Or better yet, cripple them, and call them...lazy BECAUSE they can't run?
I haven't read PAST your post (this one that I'm responding to) at this point. I hope you have a future post denouncing your previous post.
Off topic, but can someone weigh in on who's analogy is better or worse. This joker is talking about shooting people in the leg and shit. I-I-I...just, shit, can't grasp what the fuck he's talking about.
I know, I know. Off topic. But...wow.
I like my analogy better, because people with a lead in the 'rat race'...i.e. more money/wealth, to them, that's normal. When they hear the word 'socialism' being tossed around, they think they're going to have to write checks to poor people until everyone has the same amount of money.
Totally not the case. Real socialism simply means the uber wealthy be just a LITTLE LESS RICH. All the money grubbing schemes that they employ to GET that rich, they have to back off a bit.
I know you've all seen that chart of income inequality chart, where those at the very top don't even register on the chart anymore. And the poor people on the chart are so invisible that, you'd need a special telescope (or microscope, actually) from NASA to see them.
Here's the chart, in case you wanna pretend you've never seen or heard of it, like you live on fucking Neptune or something.
What's REALLY scary is this chart is a few years old.
And some of you jokers defend this shit as if it was ok. It's quite...VILE, actually.
Shit, there are 1%'ers amongst the 1%'ers that puts the 'lesser' 1%'ers to shame. Imagine being a billionaire, but you're TOO POOR to make the Forbes list.
I've said enough for now (I just wanna go to bed), but I'll close by saying this.
For a lot of you that love to defend the hell bound, uber-wealthy...I'd surmise that virtually all of you are closer to the LEFT side of the chart than you are to the right side of it.
Shoot people...in the leg....and, blame them for not...being able to run? Or better yet, cripple them, and call them...lazy BECAUSE they can't run?
I haven't read PAST your post (this one that I'm responding to) at this point. I hope you have a future post denouncing your previous post.
Off topic, but can someone weigh in on who's analogy is better or worse. This joker is talking about shooting people in the leg and shit. I-I-I...just, shit, can't grasp what the fuck he's talking about.
I know, I know. Off topic. But...wow.
I like my analogy better, because people with a lead in the 'rat race'...i.e. more money/wealth, to them, that's normal. When they hear the word 'socialism' being tossed around, they think they're going to have to write checks to poor people until everyone has the same amount of money.
Totally not the case. Real socialism simply means the uber wealthy be just a LITTLE LESS RICH. All the money grubbing schemes that they employ to GET that rich, they have to back off a bit.
I know you've all seen that chart of income inequality chart, where those at the very top don't even register on the chart anymore. And the poor people on the chart are so invisible that, you'd need a special telescope (or microscope, actually) from NASA to see them.
Here's the chart, in case you wanna pretend you've never seen or heard of it, like you live on fucking Neptune or something.
What's REALLY scary is this chart is a few years old.
And some of you jokers defend this shit as if it was ok. It's quite...VILE, actually.
Shit, there are 1%'ers amongst the 1%'ers that puts the 'lesser' 1%'ers to shame. Imagine being a billionaire, but you're TOO POOR to make the Forbes list.
I've said enough for now (I just wanna go to bed), but I'll close by saying this.
For a lot of you that love to defend the hell bound, uber-wealthy...I'd surmise that virtually all of you are closer to the LEFT side of the chart than you are to the right side of it.
Don't bet on that. just because you don't rate in the 90% plus percentile of income doesn't mean I .. er others don't.
just to ask .. why did you change your handle from "Rambro Creed" to "Randall Creed"?
Don't bet on that. just because you don't rate in the 90% plus percentile of income doesn't mean I .. er others don't.
just to ask .. why did you change your handle from "Rambro Creed" to "Randall Creed"?
concerned about the connotation perhaps?
Do a search on the name idea/handle topic.
If any multimillionaires are hanging out on a whore board, odds are they aren't REAL multimillionaires.
Then again, maybe you're just a dill hole, born rounding third base, spending your dad's hard stolen wealth, sitting in a room with 9 computer monitors (with everything from gaming to porn), weighing 380lbs because of chugging down cheetos and flat beer around the clock, never having worked a COLLECTIVE 40 hours in your life, let alone in one week, telling me that I'm not applying myself hard enough in the work force, even though you know deep down the race is rigged for 90% of the People to fail, while our sorry ass politicians sit back and turn a blind eye to it (then again, it's hard to see all this when your pupils have mutated into dollar signs).
I'd be amazed if a shitload of millionaires were hanging around a board like this, chasing and harassing 2-300 dollar escorts. Why not go after the more expensive ladies, since you have money to burn, apparently?
If any multimillionaires are hanging out on a whore board, odds are they aren't REAL multimillionaires.
Then again, maybe you're just a dill hole, born rounding third base, spending your dad's hard stolen wealth, sitting in a room with 9 computer monitors (with everything from gaming to porn), weighing 380lbs because of chugging down cheetos and flat beer around the clock, never having worked a COLLECTIVE 40 hours in your life, let alone in one week, telling me that I'm not applying myself hard enough in the work force, even though you know deep down the race is rigged for 90% of the People to fail, while our sorry ass politicians sit back and turn a blind eye to it (then again, it's hard to see all this when your pupils have mutated into dollar signs).
I'd be amazed if a shitload of millionaires were hanging around a board like this, chasing and harassing 2-300 dollar escorts. Why not go after the more expensive ladies, since you have money to burn, apparently?
yeah .. i knew you couldn't let that go. Milk and cookies kept you awake, huh?
you'd be surprised at the wealth of many posters here. if my "meager" net-worth is beyond you then you really do not want to know the true wealth of many posters here.
it would be ... disheartening to you. but in the glory that is Trump's America you can always try harder. it's never too late to better one's self.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Ernest Hemingway.
Shoot people...in the leg....and, blame them for not...being able to run? Or better yet, cripple them, and call them...lazy BECAUSE they can't run?
I haven't read PAST your post (this one that I'm responding to) at this point. I hope you have a future post denouncing your previous post.
Off topic, but can someone weigh in on who's analogy is better or worse. This joker is talking about shooting people in the leg and shit. I-I-I...just, shit, can't grasp what the fuck he's talking about.
I know, I know. Off topic. But...wow.
I like my analogy better, because people with a lead in the 'rat race'...i.e. more money/wealth, to them, that's normal. When they hear the word 'socialism' being tossed around, they think they're going to have to write checks to poor people until everyone has the same amount of money.
Totally not the case. Real socialism simply means the uber wealthy be just a LITTLE LESS RICH. All the money grubbing schemes that they employ to GET that rich, they have to back off a bit.
I know you've all seen that chart of income inequality chart, where those at the very top don't even register on the chart anymore. And the poor people on the chart are so invisible that, you'd need a special telescope (or microscope, actually) from NASA to see them.
Here's the chart, in case you wanna pretend you've never seen or heard of it, like you live on fucking Neptune or something.
What's REALLY scary is this chart is a few years old.
And some of you jokers defend this shit as if it was ok. It's quite...VILE, actually.
Shit, there are 1%'ers amongst the 1%'ers that puts the 'lesser' 1%'ers to shame. Imagine being a billionaire, but you're TOO POOR to make the Forbes list.
I've said enough for now (I just wanna go to bed), but I'll close by saying this.
For a lot of you that love to defend the hell bound, uber-wealthy...I'd surmise that virtually all of you are closer to the LEFT side of the chart than you are to the right side of it.
Go up four posts from yours - I wrote a substantive reply, but instead you chose to address the rat shooting:
Whatever your definition of socialism is, you're wrong. Not sure what I can write. Most likely you're not going to consider any facts that disagree with your world view. Probably you don't have the desire or analytical ability to Google some economic phrases and compare some lists.
Like many progressives, you think the way to reduce inequality is to drag down the successful capitalists. This won't work. You need to help people that need help, not drag down those that created businesses that power America. But your party doesn't want to do that because they want to keep people in America poor so they'll get more votes. There were two examples in the news last week. Bernie Sanders wants to shut off all federal funds to charter schools, something that poor parents are overwhelmingly against because they provide better outcomes. (The teachers unions, who are big supporters of the Democratic Party, want charter schools shut down.) And Maxine Waters was decrying Trump's immigration plan because America needs more poor people, not more scientists and engineers. I'm not twisting what she said btw.
With respect to what to do about inequality, I'm getting tired of writing the same thing over and over again, so will repeat something I've said before:
Typical line of progressive bull shit. If carried to its logical end, you end up with something like Venezuela. Instead of fucking over the rich, how about doing things to improve the lives of the poor. Improve education by making teachers accountable. Come up with a social security system like Singapore or Chile that makes people owners of corporations instead of participants in a giant Ponzi scheme. Get health care costs down by introducing real competition into the system, and don't let drug and insurance companies get away with murder -- learn from other countries with better health care systems. Make government more efficient, and help people who really need it, like poor children and single mothers, instead of flushing our tax dollars down the drain on so many things that don't make sense.
While yes there are failings in the system, the American middle class is amazingly prosperous. Other than petrostates (Kuwait, Norway), very small countries (Luxembourg) and other countries that like us don't have huge public sectors (Switzerland, Singapore), nobody's got it demonstrably better. And a large part of the reason for the success of the USA, Switzerland and Singapore are the multibillion dollar corporations you demonize.
Whatever your definition of socialism is, you're wrong. Not sure what I can write. Most likely you're not going to consider any facts that disagree with your world view. Probably you don't have the desire or analytical ability to Google some economic phrases and compare some lists.
Like many progressives, you think the way to reduce inequality is to drag down the successful capitalists. This won't work. You need to help people that need help, not drag down those that created businesses that power America. But your party doesn't want to do that because they want to keep people in America poor so they'll get more votes. There were two examples in the news last week. Bernie Sanders wants to shut off all federal funds to charter schools, something that poor parents are overwhelmingly against because they provide better outcomes. (The teachers unions, who are big supporters of the Democratic Party, want charter schools shut down.) And Maxine Waters was decrying Trump's immigration plan because America needs more poor people, not more scientists and engineers. I'm not twisting what she said btw.
With respect to what to do about inequality, I'm getting tired of writing the same thing over and over again, so will repeat something I've said before:
Typical line of progressive bull shit. If carried to its logical end, you end up with something like Venezuela. Instead of fucking over the rich, how about doing things to improve the lives of the poor. Improve education by making teachers accountable. Come up with a social security system like Singapore or Chile that makes people owners of corporations instead of participants in a giant Ponzi scheme. Get health care costs down by introducing real competition into the system, and don't let drug and insurance companies get away with murder -- learn from other countries with better health care systems. Make government more efficient, and help people who really need it, like poor children and single mothers, instead of flushing our tax dollars down the drain on so many things that don't make sense.
While yes there are failings in the system, the American middle class is amazingly prosperous. Other than petrostates (Kuwait, Norway), very small countries (Luxembourg) and other countries that like us don't have huge public sectors (Switzerland, Singapore), nobody's got it demonstrably better. And a large part of the reason for the success of the USA, Switzerland and Singapore are the multibillion dollar corporations you demonize.
Did you even GLANCE at the chart, bro??
You keep talking about Venezuela and shit.
I'll type slow this time.
It's not about dragging down fools that benefit from runaway capitalism. It's about RAISING THE ACCEPTABLE MINIMAL STANDARD.
Again, did you look at the chart?
And I 'demonize' them because they don't pay taxes (which is one of the reasons why runaway capitalism is what it is). THEY'RE RIGGING THE SHIT OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
How the FUCK does a company make $100B in profits and don't pay a goddamn dime in taxes???? How??
How is that ECONOMICALLY possible!?!?
Explain that shit to me, dude!! Break it down Barney level, so my 'feeble', mortal brain can comprehend it (rhetorical...since there's no group of words that you can put together to convince me).
It's not about dragging down fools that benefit from runaway capitalism. It's about RAISING THE ACCEPTABLE MINIMAL STANDARD.
Again, did you look at the chart?
And I 'demonize' them because they don't pay taxes (which is one of the reasons why runaway capitalism is what it is). THEY'RE RIGGING THE SHIT OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
How the FUCK does a company make $100B in profits and don't pay a goddamn dime in taxes???? How??
How is that ECONOMICALLY possible!?!?
Explain that shit to me, dude!! Break it down Barney level, so my 'feeble', mortal brain can comprehend it (rhetorical...since there's no group of words that you can put together to convince me).
Look Randall, we agree on the problem.
You're right, I didn't do a good job of addressing your graph. The problem is that most Americans don't save. There are Chinese who make $6000 a year and squirrel away 30% of what they make. I've got friends who make $50,000 a year, have huge credit card debt, and "0" savings. And others who make $150,000 a year and who are in the same shape. You ask them why they don't pay off the credit card debt and start saving, and their reactions is "Oh, I can't do that. You don't know how hard it is." This is at the same time they're spending $500 a month on beer, cigarettes, guns and ammo. When most of the population isn't saving and investing jack shit, the curve gets skewed, as you showed.
This goes against my Libertarian instincts, but the best solution, like I said in the previous post, is a pension and savings system like Singapore. It's the only way to get most people to save and invest. Employees there must contribute about 18% of their earnings to a pension/medical/education plan and employers contribute another 18%. George W. Bush, for all his failings, did try to get something like this done but couldn't get any support.
As to taxes, you need to look at the data instead of believing what you read and hear in your preferred media. Same for some of the Trump supporters here who give examples of illegal immigrant ax murderers. There are some corporations that make tons of money and don't pay taxes. That's the exception to the rule. And I agree with you, people and corporations shouldn't be able to game the system and do that.
Again though, that's the exception. Up until recently, the average corporate income tax rate, federal + state, was 40%, the highest in the developed world. As to personal income tax, the USA has had the most progressive tax system in the developed world. That’s from research by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which has done the best work on this.
The problem isn't in how much we tax. It's in how we spend the money. Despite all the crap you hear from progressives about how the wealthy and the corporations are undertaxed compared to others, it's just not true. Until people realize that and start to try to attack inequality from the bottom up, we're not going to get anywhere.
