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[WTF]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...comm_ref=false

Apparently you can SO get laid by a girl who wants to pay off her college loans....and then you're still fucking a 20 yr old...Since I have no skin in the game, I'll just say it... for a 50+ yr old, not many of these "sugar babies" are particularly interesting - or age appropriate when taking to public venues.


.

Now this is just your opinion. For many, it might be just what the doctor ordered. There is no reason to put down these girls because you may not find them interesting. Interesting is in the eye of the beholder, don't ya think? Next, Who cares what the public thinks...were that to be the main consideration then this whole p4p thing would vanish.

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

I guess when I see posts like the original, I respect the man who can get the best value for his dollar - and a 20 yr old on a social networking site might be just that. But I also want acknowledge the man who is still searching....you're not alone and you're not a fool for wanting an equal or better. There are amazing women who happen to work in the business - .

I agree there are amazing people in all facets of life but the orginial point was that supply had increased. I do agree with you contention that we all need to make a decent living. But that does not change the fact that there are more women competing for the dollars. That was I believe the posters point. He was not saying that it be good or bad, just point out a fact.

His main point was this.

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

IMO the HDH model is in decline and so are the number of women coming to this forum. That it morphed into another forum, a boring political one, was inevitable.

People use sites like these as a marketing tool.

If their views are challenged they will start up another venue to get their views shown in a positive light.

But an unchallenged venue limits the amount of clients....that in turn leads to a decline in ladies.

Which is basically woody's point. High end forums are the way of the dinosaurs. Men can get educated women that are not set in their ways for a fraction of the cost.

[mikkifine]

This a very interesting thread. I think it is great that there are ladies who have not been hurt by the financial crisis in this country. If you can still pay your bills on time and continue to offer multi hour sessions then that is great.

Some ladies have had to swallow their pride and offer cheaper rates for less time. Does it mean that their service is lousy? Not at all. I do offer cheaper rates but I do screen and I remain selective about who I see.

I also do my best to keep a clean incall. I have had many compliments on how I manage to keep a clean incall despite 3 cats and 1 dog. Yes, I love animals.

I prefer to see a gentleman who is clean and respectful. I have no patience for someone who is demanding and wants to be rough. I despise it when a guy pays a companionship rate and expects sensual domination or Greek which is a higher rate. Gent: "But baby I thought we were friends"! Me: "Well baby I don't try to screw my friends over and I especially do not try to financially cheat them"!

I try to avoid the type of man who thinks he can do as he pleases. After all he did pay money.

I have had wonderful reviews but the responses have been crude. The crude responses come from sore losers. They suffer from the mentality that if they can't fuck me then they are going to do their best to make sure nobody else does.

Very childish and immature behavior. I am even more happy about my decision not to such a person.

I advertise on backpage and other review boards besides this one. I market myself on websites such as blogger, Facebook, twitter, and linkdn. I don't care for myspace. Too many children are on there.

I know I am not a high dollar hottie but I appreciate being able to post her. Have a great day and try to smile.

[John Bull]

Mikki, you don't have to be a HDH to post here, you just have to like to post about the things we talk about and I see you do.
Welcome!

[Sydneyb]

Originally Posted by WTF

I agree there are amazing people in all facets of life but the orginial point was that supply had increased. .....That was I believe the posters point. He was not saying that it be good or bad, just point out a fact.

Good point. PWI is never a good plan - you miss a point or two and I did. (but I highly recommend the way I got intoxicated - White Linen Nights in the Hghts is a great event)...

As to your opening statement: I don't recall being on bad terms with one another in recent memory. The last experience I remember is a couple of years ago, laughing and drinking wine out of the bottles in your new kitchen with a bunch of hot chicks (and you!). Perhaps its selective memory, but it works for me....

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

Good point. PWI is never a good plan - you miss a point or two and I did. (but I highly recommend the way I got intoxicated - White Linen Nights in the Hghts is a great event)...That sounds like fun!

As to your opening statement: I don't recall being on bad terms with one another in recent memory. The last experience I remember is a couple of years ago, laughing and drinking wine out of the bottles in your new kitchen with a bunch of hot chicks (and you!). Perhaps its selective memory, but it works for me....

Oh yes, remember it well! Fun times.






Our mutual friend was my reference and possible point of contention.

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...95#post1120695








If you happen to run accross Mr PJ and atlcomedy make sure and say hi for me

[WTF]

Originally Posted by mikkifine

I despise it when a guy pays a companionship rate and expects sensual domination or Greek which is a higher rate
Very childish and immature behavior. I am even more happy about my decision not to such a person.

I advertise on backpage and other review boards besides this one. I market myself on websites such as blogger, Facebook, twitter, and linkdn. I don't care for myspace. Too many children are on there.

I know I am not a high dollar hottie but I appreciate being able to post here. Have a great day and try to smile.

Originally Posted by John Bull

Mikki, you don't have to be a HDH to post here, you just have to like to post about the things we talk about and I see you do.
Welcome!

Mikki, remember, everyone is a HDH in someone's book. Post away!


I like to post about immature behavior and I think JB prefers to chat about Greek.

[Harley Diablo]

U go Mikkifine I support you all the way. It yours baby, market it anyway you want. They dont have to lay there while a 400lb grunt with a 2" member trys to get you to say how good it is.

[brandilynn]

i do.

[Sydneyb]

Originally Posted by WTF

Our mutual friend was my reference and possible point of contention.
http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...95#post1120695

I think the operative phrase there is "our mutual friend"

Thats enough for selective memory for me. Hope you feel the same

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

Apparently you can SO get laid by a girl who wants to pay off her college loans....and then you're still fucking a 20 yr old. There are some women that are amazing providers that are in their 20s that meet that - I know some - but c'mon. I can't fuck someone my own childs age and most men don't want to either. for a 50+ yr old, not many of these "sugar babies" are particularly interesting

That the only person willing to fight for the HDH model is out of the biz speaks volumes about how badly the model is broken.

As for most men not wanting women in their 20s, I don't know what to say. The women I know are the most sought after there are. There are a lot of hot women in their 30s and early 40s, but these women have been spoiled beyond belief because there were so few of them. There are millions more women in their 20s today than there were a decade ago. The reason is the U.S. economy was horrific from 1973 to 1983, and people were having fewer children. Toss in today's economy and nose bleed education costs, and the pendulum has swung in the wealthy man's favor.

As for these women not being interesting, I disagree. I think they often have more interesting lives than women in their 30s. They may be more immature, but there is something to be said for helping someone figure out their problems.

No one wants to talk about this either but thanks to the feminists taking a hatchet to the traditional male role, a lot of these women are positively starved for positive male role models. The panic I see with these women over some trivial matters has often stunned me.

The article only talks about women in debt from education, but there are a lot of women who have been hosed by religion and society. They have been told that having an abortion is evil. They "do the right thing" and have children and then get ridiculed for being single moms and are often penniless from having to support their children. Often, I hear stories of CPS treating these single moms inhumanely. They have little choice of where to turn.

I think you are misunderstanding many men, Syd. Maybe some do like the maturity an older woman provides. I think a lot of men like to be idealized, and I hope that you can see why some of the SBs may do just that.

Part of the reason men see women is their own mortality. They can still fuck/get the hot chick, but in the back of their mind, there is still the question: is it me or my money?

If you fast forward ahead, you will see a different attitude. The Sugar Daddy may meet the sugar baby's mother, children, and friends. What does it tell you when a SB's mother comes to you and tells you that you were the greatest positive influence in her life, and the SB says to you that you are the best man that they have ever known.

I was talking to a friend of mine and said, "I can get head anywhere. I want a woman who wants to give me head to please me." Where am I more likely to get that, from a woman who I just pay and has seen multiple other men or a woman who thinks that I am the best man that they have ever met and the only one she supposedly sees?

There is an emotional component to the SD SB relationship that does not exist with HDHs. A SB will rarely fuck a man she does not like. A HDH, as you just admitted, will.

Originally Posted by Sydneyb

Now that I'm not chasing money, I am more like my former patrons than ever -- including having bought ridiculous things in the name of love or desire for someone beautiful - a $400 30 year old scotch, a custom made suit jacket....and I don't regret going overboard with those silly gestures.

I'd hate to be thought of as teaching someone that money is to be used primarily for material pursuits. Sure, I am guilty as the next guy for fulfilling his indulgences, but one issue with the HDH is that I have no say in where the money goes. I don't object; it goes with the territory.

However, I have say with the SB, and there are many times that I can make things cheaper in their lives by applying a little common sense in essence paying them. I am also far more likely to be generous if they are trying to better their lives. SDs have paid for health care, dental work, tuition, lodging, cars, child care ETC.The idea is that these girls mean a little more to the men that just an orifice.

In essence, I find that the best SDs are ones that are role models. Ideally, a SD is not providing fish but teaching the SBs how to fish, and there is a great deal of satisfaction with that. Most ask what will it take to be successful like the SD. With a HDH, a millionaire is a dime a dozen.

If a woman can make thousands a night on her back side, there is little that they need to be taught, but it is not like that any more. There are too many women, too few dollars, and an overall age related decline in male sex drive.

You worked in the golden years, Syd. Count yourself lucky.

[Sydneyb]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

I'd hate to be thought of as teaching someone that money is to be used primarily for material pursuits.

Your phraseology has gotten so eloquent. I wanted to say "so pretty", but being that you raised the bar and all....Nicely put WoodyB.

Its absolutely true that there is a real emptiness in delving just into "stuff". The flip-side is that it can be fun to show someone beautiful, well crafted things and that's where my pleasure lay, in this case. It was about indulgence, not consumption. But I've lived in that hollow way you refer to, so your point rang true.

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

In essence, I find that the best SDs are ones that are role models.

see? I'm so conflicted - I want to push my chest out (or stomp my feet) and say that's paternalistic (maybe while pouting ;-). But I've always looked for that quality in men that I saw under this kind of environment - men of character and with strengths I lacked; so I don't think things are much different these days....Its kind of sexist, but I think its natural for women to look for a leader in a man. Huge part of our respective roles in the animal world. That said, I'm gonna tell him what I really think. Doesn't always go over very well ;-)

recently I dated - like real life dated: whatever that is - someone much younger - and oh, so much smarter - than I, and that was the big draw for me; that he was my teacher. But he also respected what I knew about the world. Some of what I showed him was materialistic (he got serious street cred in the douche bag world of trading which frankly helped his career in meaningful ways for meaningless reasons), but also what I shared made him laugh and eat great meals and learn about things that weren't quantified. And that was nice.

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

You worked in the golden years, Syd. Count yourself lucky.

I really do. I know that lucky is part of where you put yourself - you have control of what you're exposed to. But a huge part of it is the kindness of others, and I have had that in spades. I do count myself lucky. Maybe we should start a thread on why we are so blessed. If we're alive and kicking and able to have choices in the world, we really are lucky. yay!

[The Gilded Truffle]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

IMO the HDH model is in decline and so are the number of women coming to this forum. That it morphed into another forum, a boring political one, was inevitable.

Not sure I agree with your conclusion. Simply because the participation in this forum is in decline, doesn't mean that HDH's (god, do I hate that word!) are. Let's stop using anecdotal evidence, and start looking at the numbers. I would say that review sites are pretty well indicative and representative of current trends, wouldn't you? With that said, check out The Erotic Review's top 100. The highest rated escorts in the nation are on average $500-600/hr. For just about every area of the nation $500-600/hr is nearly double market rate; Yet, from coast-to-coast, these women of all ages, shapes, sizes and ethnicities are staying booked at their above-market rates.

Your posts lead me to believe you find the P4P scene unfulfilling and empty, which is why you seem to prefer SB/SD relationships. I get that and agree that there are many others who feel the same way. However, when assessing and commenting on current trends its best to use numbers, and not personal experience, to support your reasoning.

[John Bull]

My experience in this thing has shown me that there are three basic types of men who populate the biz regardless of budget. The first is the guy who just wants to get laid; the second is the guy who really needs a connection. The ladies he see's are substitute girlfriends; then there is the guy who wants to dominate the ladies.

Surely there are crossovers among these three groups.

I don't see the HDH model as dead. In fact, most of the guys I actually know who indulge in the SD/SB model do so trying to get a cheap lay. I just see the real HDH's as ladies who don't advertise or don't advertise much. The operate in a whole different world and you likely won't see many of the real ones in this Forum, much as I'd like to see a half dozen or so here. The real HDH ladies never turned a trick for $3-4 or 500 bucks!

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by John Bull

My experience in this thing has shown me that there are three basic types of men who populate the biz regardless of budget. The first is the guy who just wants to get laid; the second is the guy who really needs a connection. The ladies he see's are substitute girlfriends; then there is the guy who wants to dominate the ladies.

,
well said, and i could not agree more, that is my experience. Usually the guy who wants to dominate is searching for an unpaid "connection"- to feel powerful , but still treats the escort like an escort, IMHO, with no other legitimacies within their relationships. The other two types you recognise in their willingness to spend time and money with/for the escort. The ones who want only "sex" will spend less time and only pay more if they get more "kinks" offered, that women who charge less don`t have on the menu. The one who wants a connection (that is the one`s i target) are not so much about the sex overall speaking, although it takes place, of course.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by John Bull

My experience in this thing has shown me that there are three basic types of men who populate the biz regardless of budget. The first is the guy who just wants to get laid; the second is the guy who really needs a connection. The ladies he see's are substitute girlfriends; then there is the guy who wants to dominate the ladies.

Surely there are crossovers among these three groups.

I would say that is a fair assessment of many relationships. But it is limited to quid pro quo engagements. Relationships that go beyond this arrangement to more intimacy become more of a patronage style relationship. Neither is better than the other in my view, they are just different.

Originally Posted by John Bull

I don't see the HDH model as dead. In fact, most of the guys I actually know who indulge in the SD/SB model do so trying to get a cheap lay. I just see the real HDH's as ladies who don't advertise or don't advertise much. The operate in a whole different world and you likely won't see many of the real ones in this Forum, much as I'd like to see a half dozen or so here. The real HDH ladies never turned a trick for $3-4 or 500 bucks!

Someone that has a full time career that does this on the side for the excitement or the extra dollars here and there? Sure. Maybe. But, really how rare is that? Mostly ladies in this category are ladies that have a patron that his caring for them. That’s how they can afford to stay home. There are gentlemen out there that don’t mind the additional cost just as there are women of all ages that can command that amount. But really, day after day, making a living off of new / rotating clients at the highest rates around is rare.

The majority of the ladies in the demimonde, myself included, that spend the bulk of their encounters on multi-hour dates, are rewarded well above the benchmark you have set at $500. However, and this is a big however, all of these ladies, again including myself, have grandfathered friends at grandfathered rates, but I only see those gentlemen that I want to see in this category. It’s my hair and nail money if you will. I am truly blessed to be able to enjoy all the demimonde has to offer: the fine friends I’ve made – both gentlemen and ladies and a wonderful, leisurely life. The seemingly “easy Money”, is anything but easy if you don’t have respect for the demimonde and its limits. There is no such thing as easy money. Just like with anything there are risks and rewards to this world.

So, is the HDH golden era gone? No, of course not. Was it even real in the first place? From the gentlemen's perspective – yes it is. They only see the front of the house and only for the time that we are together. They never see the whole picture. That’s the point. That’s the fantasy.