74 school shootings since Sandy Hook. More dead today.

[RedLeg505]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

what realistic steps can be taken to cut down the number of homicides, gun-related injuries, and crime in general in the U.S.?

And those of us who exercise our legal 2nd Amendment rights also want to know what steps the anti-gun folks want to impose. So far, every one that I've seen them mention, would have done nothing to stop any of the 74 school shootings mentioned in this thread title. Still waiting for some steps that might actually be effective to be suggested. The anti-gun folks are the ones that want to change the Status Quo, so its incumbent on them to say what they want to change.. So.. tell us. We're waiting.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I'm fairly certain that we all know that is not going to happen. So the question remains, what realistic steps can be taken to cut down the number of homicides, gun-related injuries, and crime in general in the U.S.?

Well you're right, total annihilation of the second amendment and gun confiscation most likely won't happen, at least not in our lifetime. But my post was intended to show the most definitive solution. So what do we have left? The laws that are currently on the books. Maybe some of them need to be made stricter. The link below is a list of the firearms that are currently banned for usage and possession all together by the average citizen. These firearms that are banned don't violate the second amendment because the constitution doesn't really protect us from which types of firearms we can legally sell, own or carry. In other words if the government wishes to ban fully automatic firearms, which they have by the way, from the general public they have that right to do so. So if a guy walks into a gun shop and wants to purchase an M-16 he's not going to have much luck because the M-16 has full automatic capabilities. But if he likes the look of the M-16 he can buy an AR-15 which is pretty much the civilian version of the M-16 because the AR-15 is Semi-Auto. But the AR-15 can be easily converted to fully automatic by a skilled gun smith if that happens that AR-15 becomes illegal. So there is laws and regulations on firearms that are designed to keep violence to a minimum without violating our second amendment rights. I realize we aren't having the kind of results we would like, but there isn't a magic formula to curb violence to nearly non existent proportions.

Jim

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...7214233AALyGer

[DangedDragon]

I'll give you a slightly different perspective from the Philippines...

When you take your children to school in most larger communities here, they walk past an armed guard to get inside the gated courtyard. To get inside the actual school facility, they go past another armed guard. (Note: Armed can mean a taser, not necessarily a gun.)

Of course, the same is true to walk into banks, malls, pharmacies, grocery stores, and most businesses that have any amount of cash on hand.

If you want to decrease gun violence in the school, you need to stop the guns from entering the premises. Guards and metal detectors would be a great starting point.

I doubt increasing or decreasing the number of guns is going to make a dramatic difference. When someone wants to commit an act of violence, they will find a way. It didn't take a gun to bring down the federal building in Oklahoma City, or the towers in New York City.

Heck, most high school chemistry classes have all the ingredients you need to make an explosive. You just need the formula, the desire, and access, which of course is available to most chemistry students. They would not even need to bring anything in from the outside.

Arming teachers is not a wise choice either, unless you are going to take the time to carefully screen each teacher, properly train them, and then require them to take refresher courses and re-screening frequently.

I'd wager that the most effective means to reducing school violence has a lot more to do with changing what is on television, in movie theaters, and in video games than it has to do with the proliferation of weapons.

The idea of violence has been made acceptable in the minds of children due to their constant exposure and "play" in the environment.

You might want to shut down "shop classes" too. They have gas welding equipment with acetylene and oxygen. Two more components that can be used to make an impressive explosion.

Guns might be the first choice for violence today, but if you took them away, those same students would go all McGyver and figure out a new way.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by DangedDragon

I'll give you a slightly different perspective from the Philippines...

When you take your children to school in most larger communities here, they walk past an armed guard to get inside the gated courtyard. To get inside the actual school facility, they go past another armed guard. (Note: Armed can mean a taser, not necessarily a gun.)

Of course, the same is true to walk into banks, malls, pharmacies, grocery stores, and most businesses that have any amount of cash on hand.

If you want to decrease gun violence in the school, you need to stop the guns from entering the premises. Guards and metal detectors would be a great starting point.

I doubt increasing or decreasing the number of guns is going to make a dramatic difference. When someone wants to commit an act of violence, they will find a way. It didn't take a gun to bring down the federal building in Oklahoma City, or the towers in New York City.

Heck, most high school chemistry classes have all the ingredients you need to make an explosive. You just need the formula, the desire, and access, which of course is available to most chemistry students. They would not even need to bring anything in from the outside.

Arming teachers is not a wise choice either, unless you are going to take the time to carefully screen each teacher, properly train them, and then require them to take refresher courses and re-screening frequently.

I'd wager that the most effective means to reducing school violence has a lot more to do with changing what is on television, in movie theaters, and in video games than it has to do with the proliferation of weapons.

The idea of violence has been made acceptable in the minds of children due to their constant exposure and "play" in the environment.

You might want to shut down "shop classes" too. They have gas welding equipment with acetylene and oxygen. Two more components that can be used to make an impressive explosion.

Guns might be the first choice for violence today, but if you took them away, those same students would go all McGyver and figure out a new way.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. The problem is American's want utopia, ya know what I mean. The idea of armed guards in uniform in schools. American parents would say that's traumatic for young kids.


Jim

[Yssup Rider]

Did you just suggest that protecting school kids from getting shot in schools was A UTOPIAN desire?

just checking.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

How about this for a start.

If a child under the age of 18 commits a crime using the parent's firearms, the parents are held accountable for the action under the law. Might make the parents secure their weapons a little better.

+1

Absolutely! In fact, any gun owner who does not secure their gun securely should be held accountable for any crime committed with that gun, regardless of whether it is lent, lost or stolen.

If you own a gun, secure the goddam thing so children, crazies and criminals don't get their hands on it. You have the right to bear arms. You don't have the right to be careless.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Did you just suggest that protecting school kids from getting shot in schools was A UTOPIAN desire?

just checking.

What Iam suggesting is parents wouldn't go for it because of the intimidating factor of an Armed Guard in and around the school. I don't really think it would bother the kids as much as it would the parents. I personally think it would be a good step in the right direction. But all you would need is one parent to have a bad encounter with a guard over some procedure or another and they would squawk about it That's why I say Americans want a utopian fix for our problems. they want everything to just not happen. That's why TSA at Airports get a lot of flack, course they are idiots but that's beside the point.

Jim

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by RedLeg505

And those of us who exercise our legal 2nd Amendment rights also want to know what steps the anti-gun folks want to impose. So far, every one that I've seen them mention, would have done nothing to stop any of the 74 school shootings mentioned in this thread title. Still waiting for some steps that might actually be effective to be suggested. The anti-gun folks are the ones that want to change the Status Quo, so its incumbent on them to say what they want to change.. So.. tell us. We're waiting.

I already gave you one -- punish the parents who leave their guns/rifles accessible to their children and the children use the guns/rifles and commit crimes. Especially if the child has mental problems and was taking medication for them, such as Adam Lanza in Newtown. Yes, I realize in this case Lanza had already killed his mother. And, yes, I realize that such a change if effective would only eliminate a handful of the thousands of homicides each year in the U.S.

Second, look at the gun laws and search and seizure tactics implemented in New York and see if they would be effective in other states. NY, has a low homicide rate compared to other states with major cities such as Ca., Texas, Michigan, Ohio, N.J. Florida. Many of the crimes committed in NY are with handguns imported from other states. They must be doing something right in NY.

And I'll ask you as I did JD, as someone who obviously strongly supports 2nd Amendment rights, what do you suggest that we do in the U.S. to bring down the homicide rate, which anyone should agree is ridiculously high?

[DangedDragon]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

That wouldn't be a bad idea. The problem is American's want utopia, ya know what I mean. The idea of armed guards in uniform in schools. American parents would say that's traumatic for young kids.

Jim, interestingly, in the Philippines the kids and parents all LIKE the guards. They stop and chat with them. The kids learn to trust them and ask them questions. They are not dressed like military, but more like a guard in a bank.

In most businesses here, people stop and ask the door guards for directions or quick questions about the business they are guarding.

It would probably seem intimidating for the first year, but after that it would be just another friendly face at the front door.

They bar the gates during school hours and the guards open and close the gates for kids and parents that need to come and go. It would not stop a hardcore attack, but it is a visual and mental deterrent.

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

as someone who obviously strongly supports 2nd Amendment rights,bp what do you suggest that we do in the U.S. to bring down the homicide rate?

Cut the police force, and stop relying on civil servants to enforce decency (which would include not killing). It is the responsibility of the community as a whole.

I do not think it is possible, but to address this problem I would look more into how the mass media, madison avenue and wall street create a culture of greed and envy and force feed it to us through our TVs, computers and phones. We greedily suck that poison tit, don't get me wrong, but I believe the source of the problem is there, and not in some gun law.

Video games. I'm not sure all these kids really understand there's no game tomorrow, how long life is.

For my part, the more armed guards I see the angrier I will be.

Other solutions would include a devastating plague, a massive volcanic event or earthquake, or a really inefficient war with U.S. Civil War casualty percentages.

[Yssup Rider]

Uh, OK.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Uh, OK.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by DangedDragon

Jim, interestingly, in the Philippines the kids and parents all LIKE the guards. They stop and chat with them. The kids learn to trust them and ask them questions. They are not dressed like military, but more like a guard in a bank.

In most businesses here, people stop and ask the door guards for directions or quick questions about the business they are guarding.

It would probably seem intimidating for the first year, but after that it would be just another friendly face at the front door.

They bar the gates during school hours and the guards open and close the gates for kids and parents that need to come and go. It would not stop a hardcore attack, but it is a visual and mental deterrent.

Sounds like the Philippines has an effective system. The American school system should try and implement something of this nature. Even though I may sound skeptical on how parents and students may accept an armed guard at school. I think it could still work here in the states.


Jim

[JohnnyCap]

Thank God I died in the 70's before I became an establishment pansie.

Jim

[IIFFOFRDB]