Enlighten me!

[FOREVERMAN]

First off, I like the way you refer to the "China priveleges" in this thread. My feeling is that not every escort experience is a privelege. I suspect most seasoned board members would agree that when we connect with someone it does feel like a privelege. For those of you who can relate I would like to call you " The Seasoned Hobbiest".

Question #1

"So here’s my question: Why do men say these things when we will not see them?"

The Seasoned Hobbiest (TSH) understands that comments like these will not yield the results he is looking for. Even though at times we might use dirty talk BCD as a means of verbal stimulation. It is understood that it should be kept BCD. However, a newbie who
sayes these things is most likely very insecure and acting out because you struck a nerve.

Question # 2

I have no idea why people do this. I have no desire to hear my flaws from someone I am trying to connect with sexualy. I think all providers understand that pointing out our flaws would put a negative impact on the session. Why don't guys subscrie to the same theory? The reason I am on the board is to find what I am looking for, I feel that plenty of information is provided in advance. If I show up at an appoint and suspect a BS from a lady I can just walk away. If I did not enjoy the session for what ever reason I just don't go back.

As for Question # 3, this is the topic of a totaly different thread. If you are refering to somthing other than BCD Comments I don't have any opinion.

Hope the insight helps.

[guest111111]

To make this as simple as possible without sounding too harsh on whoever this jackass maybe.. I think the reason is much simpler than we make it. When someone is paying for somethign, there are those that feel as if they are entitled to act any way they wish, without any sense of deorum or common decency. These are the same people that you will see belittleing a waitress at dinner, sending food back several times and then refusing to pay, or whatever other inexcusible behavior they may use. In most cases, again IMHO, these people are lacking in the greater area of social interaction, and in the situation of our hobby, you are entering into a no win situation with this kind of person. They can never be pleased, period. If you had decided ot see this person, chances are they woudl try to push your boundries. to them its all about the money factor, and as long as they are paying, they feel they have the right to act any way they wish... I know this may not answer your question... I can only apologize that you have had to encounter such a person.. I can promise you that they are more the exception than the rule.

[summerwaves]

Let me clarify. You said you were upset by the lack of respect a man showed to other ladies and you told him your reasons for not seeing him.
This is what I am referring to:

"I chose not to see the man for disrespect he showed some other ladies. I cannot say what it was, but for the sake of argument, let us please assume that my reasoning was sound. I was honest with him in my reasoning and went out of my way to put it quite delicately. He was polite at first.
He messaged me several days later with some very rude things to say. He told me that I was “missing out” because he is a great tipper. He also told me that there are plenty of other “wh*res” he could see. Looks like I actually dodged a bullet, doesn’t it?"


So, my question is, "Did this man talk badly to you about other escorts? Did you read disrespectful things he said about other escorts? Did other escorts give you the information? It is not clear to me from your post how you received the information.

I am not sure what you think I am wrong about. If the man showed you disrespect, I agree you should handle it as you see fit and in a way that works best for you.

IF the information came to you from another provider, You SHOULD NOT repeat any negative comments about a client that come from other providers. This is why I no longer post alerts to escorts. Too much repeating and harrassing e-mails and phone calls and I am not going to put myself in danger to help someone who does not appreciate it and who uses it as a marketing tool. I am not referring to you! I do not know you.

As far as clients talking about escorts to escorts (the good and the bad), if that's the case, well, it happens all the time................great, great skills, not so great skills, pretty, not pretty, too young, too old, too thin, too fat, not my type, etc. etc............no different than dating and listening to friends talking about dating!

[jr]

China Doll – we have never met, but I like what you’re asking about here and wanted to add my 2 cents.

1) There are psychology classes and numerous books written about these types of behaviors, but probably the best statement I’ve ever heard about this type of behavior came from a friend of mine who worked for a telemarketing company years ago...Simply stated, he once told me

"Nobody scares me....over the phone" or in this case, the internet.

I don't want to sound like I am defending this person's behavior, I actual condone it, but the internet affords certain anonymity that increase one’s bravado. There is no accountability for his actions and the only consequence he sees is something that has already been taken away from them, so he has nothing to lose. You already know the answer to your first question because you answered it when stating that his behavior was childish. You hurt his feeling and now he was going to hurt yours…. Childish.

2) Regarding your pointing out flaws question, this is another anomaly. The first thing that came to mind…. “People in glass houses should not throw stones”. If things were perfect in his life, why is he participating in this hobby???

I was recently with 2 providers who were joking with themselves about their breast sizes….One said, “Mine are small, hers are medium” to which I replied, “then mine must be large”. We all laughed about this, but if one is feeling an insecure about one’s anatomy, having it brought up by a stranger could increase one’s insecurities. These types of comments go to show ones own character. If someone needs to bolster their own self worth, the easiest way is to point out someone else’s flaws.

I guess my point is these are their issues, not necessarily yours even though they are obviously affecting you. It’s understandable to get upset about them, but you shouldn’t feel as though you need to accept these types of behaviors just because you do what you do. Yes we are paying, but it does not give us the right to be rude and disrespectful. Keeping smiling and look out for the good guys

[MrInvisible]

China:

I think the answer to your first question was in the set-up to your first question. You chose not to see him "for disrespect he showed some other ladies." He was too big a boor to understand that he had crossed the line with those providers -- perhaps he was turning to you because they had turned him down -- or they were willing to put up with his shenanigans, even though his behavior was bad enough to get them talking to you.

You said he was polite at first, then messaged you a few days later ... and at that point he had gotten to the denial stage. He didn't want to believe HE was the problem, and the proof of that is that he's a great tipper (which proves nothing ... you can be a jerk, KNOW you are a jerk and be a great tipper because you're glad someone put up with you), or that he can get other women to take his money (although probably not the women who run in your circle of friends and contacts).

If this had been someone you had seen previously and who had done something to have their "China privileges" revoked, THAT might be something to worry about (why did you have an experience with someone that was good the first time(s) and then soured and devolved into name-calling, etc.) Since you had not seen the man before and he clearly had issues with others, you ignore his words and move on.

Yes, we all respond to the negative and deflect the positive (you have been gracious in deflecting the praise of the men in this string ... sadly, I have never had the pleasure of meeting you ... and with my travel to upstate NY ending probably never will), but that also makes the kind of person who takes to heart some of the negative. Don't ... some people are jerks, and once you recognize them as such, you can shrug off their comments and move on to somethingmore productive.

As to your second question ... it's a mindset thing, where someone has an image of what makes someone perfect for them; when they are spending their money and they are not getting their vision of perfect, it becomes like a piece of furniture ("Even though there was a scratch on the table model, it works for me ... it's not perfect, but it's close.")

As for me, I think "finding the flaws" is the fun. It is precisely what makes one person different from the next. Let me learn every inch and find every "flaw" if there is such a thing. The only way I might "point them out" is with my nose.

[Guest091813]

Awww yes the response of a true gent when being turned down by even..a "working girl".. I'm sure that hurt his big huge feelings..and thus thought it would be wonderfully tactful to call names..yes that will make me run right into your arms and give you the best time you've had in your life!!! Yeeeeeehaw!!!!Let's go babe!!!

And he felt since he is flipping the bill, he can talk to us anyway he likes..he can insult us and also be very abusive to us..why..cuz he's got the $$ and he feels he can do whatever he likes to a lady that is taking this money...

I always say.."thank god I'm not married to him..good lord what is he like at home"???

As for the pointing out the flaws of a working lady..we all have those flaws ..and I inspect mine just about every day..it seems with me doin my lil bit of Taebo, and me jumping on my "Tony Little" glider thingy..my flaws may shrink..however..not overnight..but I keep getting on my glider thingy and glide on my way through the day and into the week...
Yes. yes...I have flaws..but sooo what..your gonna call me flabby and saggy because I'm not a 100 lbs and I don't have implants to hold the sag up..lol..good one man good one!!!
Just so original picking on someone just for being a person ...
And of course.. worst of all calling me a "whore"...listen suga..it is what it is..I had come to terms with this lil name many many years ago..after all..it is the biz..and what does that make him? Coming to want to see me..if being a whore is the worst of the worst why are you trying sooo hard to see me???I prefer being called the "smartslut"....Yes Im a bit smarter than the average slut..lol..

I guess what I'm trying to say..is this guy is not worth the investment you are giving him..Through out the whole of your life, you are going to run into guys like this...while your working the biz or even in your private life..I get insults thrown at me even when I'm sitting minding my own biz,,
A guy hits on me..and cuz I'm not interested in him, he wants to toss the slangs around..My response to him..yes..I'm a bitch I created her long ago....now lets just move on..oh now I'm a whore. Big deal.. We all are whores to someone..it helps to pay the bills and also helps me to raise my kids..lets move on..
Yes yes I'm flabby and saggy..thank god you don't have to see me naked now or ever for that matter. Whew you lucky son of a bitch!!!

You will grow a thicker skin and see these insults they toss at us as pity..I pity this guy who cant even get a working girl to see him..its like a lil kid thowing a fit..treat him like a toddler and tell him.."your in time out" and then at that point in time..give him NO MORE of your time, your pity, or even your thoughts..the more you give into this, the more he will own your mind..don't give him that.
You just keep doin you and keep on screening..and you will see for one mad bastard, 20 nice and wonderful gents will come and see you..I promise..this you will overcome...
nita..

[guest032013]

i wouldnt call a girl a "little slut" till i really got to know her. and i would say it as a compliment towards her sensual nature. i dont say derogatory remarks to men or women, but i do like a little dirty talk.

[offshoredrilling]

anita I like your post.

[taggert]

China, people such as whom you've described are just plain ignorant and unfortunalely turn up in all walks of life. It is certainly not restricted to our hobbying/provider relationships. too often people resort to some form of insult when their discussion or argument doesn't hold up or hear something truthfull about themselves they don't want to acknowledge. I think its human nature to want to come out "on top" but unfortunately some folks can't for whatever reason get beyond the ignorance of their actions. An instance like this confirms the value of your screening process.

[China Doll]

I love you guys! I love the thoughtful responses! I think I may be inclined to spend a little more time here.

Originally posted by Docdave:
“….If you had decided ot see this person, chances are they woudl try to push your boundries. to them its all about the money factor, and as long as they are paying, they feel they have the right to act any way they wish... I know this may not answer your question... I can only apologize that you have had to encounter such a person.. I can promise you that they are more the exception than the rule.”

I agree with you completely. What’s strange to me is that men will roar, “I am the paying client!!” even though they have never met me. I always say, “Not until I decide to see you, sweetheart!” I guess they must think that we ladies are like Walmart; as long as they’re willing to pay, we must bend to their will. Oh, and thank goodness that you are right about the guys being the exception and not the rule!

Originally posted by Summerwaves:
“So, my question is, "Did this man talk badly to you about other escorts? Did you read disrespectful things he said about other escorts? Did other escorts give you the information? It is not clear to me from your post how you received the information.”

I am not sure what you think I am wrong about. If the man showed you disrespect, I agree you should handle it as you see fit and in a way that works best for you.

IF the information came to you from another provider, You SHOULD NOT repeat any negative comments about a client that come from other providers.”

It was not clear in the post because I do not want it to be clear to you. I know full well that I “SHOULD NOT” repeat negative comments about a client that came from other escorts. I am not stupid, I promise you. So, given that I did not tell this man the very information you are requesting, why on earth would I post it on an open forum? He’s here, you know.
You told me to tell you that you were wrong if you were making an incorrect assumption about the kind of information I gave to him. That is what I was referring to.

Originally posted by jr:
“’Nobody scares me....over the phone’ or in this case, the internet.”

Interesting point! The man actually went out of his way to make sure that I didn’t know who he was before making his ridiculous comments. So brave! [swoons]

“2) Regarding your pointing out flaws question, this is another anomaly. The first thing that came to mind…. “People in glass houses should not throw stones”. If things were perfect in his life, why is he participating in this hobby???”

Another good point. No man who has ever made a negative comment about my body was a prize himself….and I mean not a single one!

“I guess my point is these are their issues, not necessarily yours even though they are obviously affecting you. It’s understandable to get upset about them, but you shouldn’t feel as though you need to accept these types of behaviors just because you do what you do. Yes we are paying, but it does not give us the right to be rude and disrespectful. Keeping smiling and look out for the good guys”

It doesn’t upset me as much as you might think. Situations like the first one put me out no more than the caloric energy I expend to roll these big brown eyes.

As for the negative body comments, I really just want to know why.

Originally posted by Mrinvisible:
“If this had been someone you had seen previously and who had done something to have their "China privileges" revoked, THAT might be something to worry about (why did you have an experience with someone that was good the first time(s) and then soured and devolved into name-calling, etc.) Since you had not seen the man before and he clearly had issues with others, you ignore his words and move on.”

No, I had not seen this man before. I have had to “let go” of people who disrespected me after we first met, and that is a whole different ballgame.

Great post, Anita!

I really do want everyone to understand that I was not bothered by this man. If I was bothered every time a client insulted me, I would have to get out of this business before it ruined me. I am only using these situations as examples. I am looking for potential reasoning behind the behavior, not validation. Perhaps I should have explained better that I love analyzing situations and people. This is not something that I think about all the time. I guess I left myself open to that speculation…without knowing me well, it may seem that I must be bothered by these things.

Oh, and Anita. I’m a slut, and I love it.

[GP]

Originally Posted by summerwaves

You rejected a guy and his true feelings came out. Not a good thing for a guy to get rejected by an escort or find out other escorts have spoken badly about him. It sounds like you repeated to him what other escorts told you about him. Not a good thing. Correct me if I am wrong. If I am correct, please do not do this. Other escorts may get the bullet you dodged. There is no need to give reasons for not seeing a gent. Simply don't reply or say you are booked and will get back to him when you have an opening.

I agree with what Summer has said here. Be careful, because a sneaky guy who was rejected could potentially try to create a new "hobby identity" and see you that way. He may not have honorable intentions either. Scary, but it could happen.

[China Doll]

Do not worry about me, GP. I am more careful than I even let on.

[Doove]

Well, so far we have 26 posts in agreement that the guy was a putz. Make that 27. Nevertheless, I think a bit of a contrarian opinion is somewhat valid and I’m here to deliver it, if I may.

Before I do, let me preface it with a few points. First, I have no more use than anyone else for objectionable comments directed anonymously at people. Secondly, please don’t read into this that I’m attempting to defend anyone for acting like a fool. Frankly, I think all the guy did was give China reason to be confident that she made the correct decision in her refusal to see him. And finally, I have the utmost amount of faith that China handled the situation, both before and after, with as much grace, sincerity and dare I say, charm as could be expected of anyone. Oh, and there’s no need to point me to the several posts that have pre-emptively rebutted what I’m about to say. Particularly Anita’s. I’ve seen them, and for the most part, I’m in firm agreement with them.

That all being said……

What’s being lost here, at least to my point of view is this. Obvious high profile examples notwithstanding, this is a business that has a very specific reputation. That reputation is that the girls involved make their livings servicing men of all different stripes and persuasions. Guys who can’t get a date, guys who are social outcasts, ugly overweight guys, etc etc etc. You get the point. So to have one of those girls tell you that she doesn’t care to spend even 1 hour with you, even for $250, (or whatever her rate was at the time) no amount of graciousness or sincerity is going to prevent that rejection from feeling pretty insulting – no matter how justified it was from China’s point of view.

China’s “what kind of girl do you think I am” comment made me smile because I can actually imagine her saying that. And from here forward when I hear the statement “ironic comment”, I suspect I’ll be thinking of China. But on the flip side, someone telling himself “I got turned down by an escort”, also ironic, might not feel so funny to the person involved. So China’s justification, valid as it may be, may not have been enough for the person to not take her rejection as an insult in it’s own right. So was the guy a jerk? Of course. But I think it’s a pretty natural reaction, when you feel insulted, to hurl a return insult of some sort. As unfortunate as that may be.

Or maybe he's just an a&s.

Now, THAT being said, I assume since she hasn’t seen him, then he’s only seen the same photos of her that I’ve seen. So the heck with his character, I wanna talk about his judgment. WHAT FLAW????? Idiot!!

[China Doll]

Ohh, Doove. You leave me with much to say, as always. Where to begin?

“Frankly, I think all the guy did was give China reason to be confident that she made the correct decision in her refusal to see him. And finally, I have the utmost amount of faith that China handled the situation, both before and after, with as much grace, sincerity and dare I say, charm as could be expected of anyone.”

Thank you, my dear! Your compliments are very flattering. [bats eyelashes and blushes ever so slightly]

“What’s being lost here, at least to my point of view is this. Obvious high profile examples notwithstanding, this is a business that has a very specific reputation. That reputation is that the girls involved make their livings servicing men of all different stripes and persuasions. Guys who can’t get a date, guys who are social outcasts, ugly overweight guys, etc etc etc. You get the point. So to have one of those girls tell you that she doesn’t care to spend even 1 hour with you, even for $250, (or whatever her rate was at the time) no amount of graciousness or sincerity is going to prevent that rejection from feeling pretty insulting – no matter how justified it was from China’s point of view.”


Ahh, yes! This is the kind of contrarian opinion I was looking for! See, this is the perspective that I was missing. I viewed the rejection and subsequent hurt feelings as lesser things than they are perceived to be by others. I felt like I was a woman who was professionally rejecting a man for professional reasons. When you put it that way, however, it seems that it is so much more than that.

I could not see it this way because I like the men who come to see me! Do I like the social outcasts? Sure! Much of the time, that phrase is synonymous with “geek,” which makes for a perfect match. Do I like the generally unattractive and/or overweight men? Well, why not? I like anyone who is a gentleman, really. I don’t care about those other things. I never have. If we’re two people who can have a great time together, then they are every bit as worthy as anyone else. Sometimes I am treated with such respect that I consider it an honor to be with them.

So yes, sometimes I forget to consider the very big issue of how this profession is viewed. When the rejected ones resort to name-calling, they may not simply be trying to anger me. They may very well be saying that I’m “just a wh*re,” therefore I sleep with loads of disgusting men, which means that it’s ridiculous that I will not see them. They just don’t get it, huh, guys?

“China’s “what kind of girl do you think I am” comment made me smile because I can actually imagine her saying that. And from here forward when I hear the statement “ironic comment”, I suspect I’ll be thinking of China. But on the flip side, someone telling himself “I got turned down by an escort”, also ironic, might not feel so funny to the person involved.”

[nods] Again you cleverly phrased your ideas in a way that shows me something I had not considered.

My view: Of course the man will understand my need to protect myself. He wouldn’t want to see me if I wasn’t comfortable anyway because he respects me. Why wouldn’t he? I’m a classy, selective lady with integrity.

His view: I was just rejected by someone who is paid to spend time with the scum of society. There is something wrong with this woman. I’d better put her in her place.

He he!


“Now, THAT being said, I assume since she hasn’t seen him, then he’s only seen the same photos of her that I’ve seen. So the heck with his character, I wanna talk about his judgment. WHAT FLAW????? Idiot!! “

Oh, no, my dear! These are two different situations with different people. Thank you for being so sweet. I definitely do have my flaws, but I cannot change the fact that I am human.

[Chloe]

I have . . . .
been rejected because he was "expecting perfection" and I was not as beautiful or as skinny as he had expected.

I have . . ..
had many men harrass me because I have turned them down for various reasons including a few that other providers have posted alerts on that are active members here as well.

I have. . .
felt offended, hurt, rejected and acted silly . . . sent a reply I didn't need to or vent too much on the boards.

I was . . .
#2 on Bobs list of girls he got pissed at, lol, but I honestly had no idea he was even upset until he appologized for being a jerk. I was like "You were? I was the one who should have appologized!" lol. I out myself because I believe kind, good, respectful men know how to convey their feelings without attacking you.

It is always those things that you do not intend to happen in a situation that can ruin everything or put that extra glow on your face

I have and do act from emotion and heart as much as logic and common sense. I am two women . . . who I am at home and who I am as a provider. I think you guys may be the same in many ways. With such duality, conflict and strange emotions that you are not used to dealing with productivly and efficiantly come out and go sideways. Then we act as children do with immature emotions lol.

Thank you China for your words. You are an articulate and educated writer, you enunciate well! You are a valued comrade