"If This Be Treason . . ."

[ICU 812]

Somehow, the topic of chanting "Death to America!" by pro=plasticine protesters while occupying the Capitol cafeteria got sidetracked back into the 1-6-21 events.

I thought it was some kind of crime to threaten the violent overthrow of the Government while rampaging through the Capitol building.

In any case, I would think that a foreign national arrested for locking a major bridge while advocating the violent overthrow of the government could be deported.

Guess I got all that wrong.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Somehow, the topic of chanting "Death to America!" by pro=plasticine protesters while occupying the Capitol cafeteria got sidetracked back into the 1-6-21 events.

I thought it was some kind of crime to threaten the violent overthrow of the Government while rampaging through the Capitol building.

In any case, I would think that a foreign national arrested for locking a major bridge while advocating the violent overthrow of the government could be deported.

Guess I got all that wrong.

A person in the Capitol building on 1/6/2021 was breaking the law. Most "words" are protected by the 1st Amendment. If I go out onto my front lawn and make statements "advocating the violent overthrow of the government" I doubt I am breaking any laws unless it can be proven that my statements could bring harm to others. In no way am I saying I agree with those that do make such statements but in this country the 1st Amendment goes a long way in protecting those that choose to make such statements.

[reddog1951]

"Yes, anyone entering the Capitol Building on January 6, 2021 was breaking the law and commiting a crime but I believe common sense has to be applied in such instances."

Common sense is to NOT break into the Capitol. In the words of Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does." The others were just more lucky.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

A person in the Capitol building on 1/6/2021 was breaking the law. Most "words" are protected by the 1st Amendment. If I go out onto my front lawn and make statements "advocating the violent overthrow of the government" I doubt I am breaking any laws unless it can be proven that my statements could bring harm to others. In no way am I saying I agree with those that do make such statements but in this country the 1st Amendment goes a long way in protecting those that choose to make such statements.

If you do that in a State with "Red Flag Laws"you might have a problem.

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

"Yes, anyone entering the Capitol Building on January 6, 2021 was breaking the law and commiting a crime but I believe common sense has to be applied in such instances."

Common sense is to NOT break into the Capitol. In the words of Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does." The others were just more lucky.

... How is one walking into the Capitol building as
police hold the doors open actually "breaking and entering"??

#### Salty

[Daneskold1]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

“If This Be Treason, Then Make The most Of It!!”
Patrick Henry

The actions of many individuals during the events of January 6th, 2020 at the nation’s Capital are considered by many to be treasonous insurrection. Whether or not I myself agree with that is beside the point of this discussion. The national consensus and the finding s of the Federal court system has for many, been ” insurrection” and “treason”.

Here we are a few years later and protests often focus on the situation of Palestinians in the so-called West Bank and Gaza. These protests and demonstrations regularly go beyond calling for better conditions for Palestinians or their rights to self-determination. Often the chanting includes calls for the elimination of Israel as a nation and the extermination of Jews as a people. Here in the United States, this call for the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people is supplemented with loud chanting of “Death To America”, and references to the USA as “The Great Sten.”

The phrase, “Death o America” cannot be interpreted in any other way than a call for the violent overthrow of the government. They are not proposing to amend the Constitution after all.The overthrow of any government, violent or “mostly peaceful” is a Coup. . Any citizen calling for the overthrow of their government is committing treason by any definition of the word. Insurrection is another applicable word for these sentiments.

These Death to America demonstrators and protest organizers should be pursued with the same legal vigor as have those who entered the nation’s Capital on January 6th of 2020.

Treason is a charge that cannot be leveled unless we are in a declared state of war. However, conspiracy against United States, interaction and sedition are just as evil and traitorous.

Concerning the Middle East, both Palestinians and Israelis citizens should have the right to live a peaceful and uninterrupted life. Therefore the Netanyahu terrorist Cabal and Hammas are the only entities that should be removed. Shame on United States for facilitating crimes against humanity and attempted genocide. We should have conditional eyes are contributions to Israel in 1948.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

She was attempting to climb through a shattered window next to a barricaded door with a mob of rioters behind her. The police officer who shot her was required by law to protect the capitol the members and their staff.

Fully justified and you are spreading misinformation when you say otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

So that Security Guard could use deadly force with impunity under the guise of protecting the Capital? There was a lot of intruders that day there should have been a lot laundry on the Capital floor.

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

A person in the Capitol building on 1/6/2021 was breaking the law. Most "words" are protected by the 1st Amendment. If I go out onto my front lawn and make statements "advocating the violent overthrow of the government" I doubt I am breaking any laws unless it can be proven that my statements could bring harm to others. In no way am I saying I agree with those that do make such statements but in this country the 1st Amendment goes a long way in protecting those that choose to make such statements.

At this point, I consider the Jan 6th stuff to be pretty much settled as to criminality and culpability. I don't have to like it or even agree with it, but, like the 2020 election itself, it is what it is.

Can anyone explain tithe concept of "fighting words"? I have run across this informally from time to time, but never understood if this was a valid legal concept. I mean, It has got to be some sort of crime to directly threaten one's life or the safety of their family . . .right? I recognize that I may have this compleatly wrong.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... How is one walking into the Capitol building as
police hold the doors open actually "breaking and entering"??

#### Salty

So all the pictures and videos of people breaking through police lines and injuring those protecting the Capitol are fake? Those shown breaking windows and entering the Captiol are fake? All those people who have either pleaded guilty of crimes on Jan 6 did not actually do so, or those who were found guilty by a jury of their peers or a judge were wrongfully convicted?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

So that Security Guard could use deadly force with impunity under the guise of protecting the Capital? There was a lot of intruders that day there should have been a lot laundry on the Capital floor.

The security guard probably over-reacted but was most definitely innocent of any crime.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

If you do that in a State with "Red Flag Laws"you might have a problem.

I don't think you really know what "Red Flag Laws" really are:

"Texas has weak gun laws, including lacking an Extreme Risk law (also known as a Red Flag law), that empowers loved ones or law enforcement to temporarily prevent people at risk of causing harm from accessing firearms, including people who have threatened violence."

How does that apply to any statement I have made?

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I don't think you really know what "Red Flag Laws" really are:

"Texas has weak gun laws, including lacking an Extreme Risk law (also known as a Red Flag law), that empowers loved ones or law enforcement to temporarily prevent people at risk of causing harm from accessing firearms, including people who have threatened violence."

How does that apply to any statement I have made?

I am not talking specifically about Texas. All a neighbor would have to say in a "Red Flag State" is you were hanging out in your yard acting like a nut and you might have access to a firearm.

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

So all the pictures and videos of people breaking through police lines and injuring those protecting the Capitol are fake? Those shown breaking windows and entering the Captiol are fake? All those people who have either pleaded guilty of crimes on Jan 6 did not actually do so, or those who were found guilty by a jury of their peers or a judge were wrongfully convicted?

... That's NOT what I asked. ... Please try to pay attention.

... What I asked - and I'll ask it again - How is one walking
into the Capitol building as the police hold the doors open
actually "breaking and entering"??

#### Salty

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... That's NOT what I asked. ... Please try to pay attention.

... What I asked - and I'll ask it again - How is one walking
into the Capitol building as the police hold the doors open
actually "breaking and entering"??

#### Salty

It's called using your common sense. If you find a wallet full of money and you keep it common sense should tell you that's theft. By walking past barricades and following other rioters into the capitol building on Jan 6 your common sense should tell you to "not go in" whether the police are standing aside or not. You are arguing a technicality.

[Salty Again]

.... No "wallet analogy" needed - no "common sense" compare.

IF the police are holding the door open and inviting people
to enter - it's NOT "breaking and entering"... Not arguing
technicality - but stating FACT...

And surely before YOU call it "illegal trespass" or something
along those lines - the police are holding the doors OPEN.

#### Salty