Humana drops out of Obamacare

[i_land_her]

I think they are saying that everyone should work and either pay for insurance or healthcare.

Obamacare is not beneficial for people that pay for their own insurance or barely make enough money to pay their bills, so they cant afford insurance and perfer to pay for each individual doctors visit. Its beneficial for people that flat out refuse to help themselves.

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by i_land_her

I think they are saying that everyone should work and either pay for insurance or healthcare.

Yeah...I got that, genius...doesn't change the question. Why have insurance companies at all under that mentality?

[Woodduck82]

It's considered part of your compensation package with your employer, who offsets the majority of the cost for you. I said it's earned, as in, nothing is free in this life. Somebody, somewhere is paying you share. AKA, Obamacare

[Kit Walker]

I understand where Wakeup is coming from. It has only been in the Last 30-40 years that major medical packages became available. Whe I got oxut of college in 1971, few companies if any offered major medical insurance plans. Prior to that people bought hospitalization policies and cancer policies and when they got sick they came of pocket as the Dr fees were not so expensive. Big oil changed that by making big money and offering medical packages to lure qualified people to work. Seems like that is when it got out of hand.

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by Powerdrive

It's considered part of your compensation package with your employer, who offsets the majority of the cost for you.

So you're saying that if an employer didn't offer you insurance, you'd be getting paid more, since they don't have to spend that money on insurance? Sign me up!

Originally Posted by Powerdrive

I said it's earned, as in, nothing is free in this life. Somebody, somewhere is paying you share.

Under any insurance program, if you get insurance for the first time, and then get a major, expensive, medical problem the next year that is covered under your insurance, someone is paying your share...and it isn't you. Who is it?

Again...why have insurance companies at all, if y'all believe that everyone should be paying their own way?

[looking2havefun]

Originally Posted by shinepro

Every human being is entitled to health care.

No they are not.
Each should be entitled to what they work for and earn for themselves.
Fuck everbody standing around with their hands out expecting others to take care of them.

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by looking2havefun

Fuck everbody standing around with their hands out expecting others to take care of them.

You mean like everyone who has an insurance policy?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Kit Walker

I understand where Wakeup is coming from. It has only been in the Last 30-40 years that major medical packages became available.

Would you mind defining what you mean by "major medical packages"?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Wakeup

So you're saying that if an employer didn't offer you insurance, you'd be getting paid more, since they don't have to spend that money on insurance?

If the employee opts out of the employer's insurance plan then, depending on what the employee's premium deduction is from the pay check, the employee should be getting a larger net pay check.

That was the ignorant issue with the "penalty" aka "tax" for not having a "qualified" health insurance policy ... when the premiums exceeded the "penalty" it was an enticement to just pay the penalty! That's not a "penalty" ... it's a less expensive alternative.

[GlobeSpotter]

some people are blind

some people are stupid

unfortunately, that sum makes up the majority

and neither one curable

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

If the employee opts out of the employer's insurance plan then, depending on what the employee's premium deduction is from the pay check, the employee should be getting a larger net pay check.

I guess I need to be clear. This isn't about anything specific in our current insurance program, or a political scenario with penalties and such.

I'm not asking about an employer returning a deduction from the employee paycheck that's above what the company offers to their employees free of charge. If you walked into work and told HR that you were opting out of the company insurance, and you wanted them to give you what they pay for your insurance to you instead of to the insurance company, what would happen?

Anyone care to answer my question? Why do we need insurance companies if y'all think everyone should be paying their own way?

[GlobeSpotter]

Originally Posted by Wakeup

.....
If you walked into work and told HR that you were opting out of the company insurance, and you wanted them to give you what they pay for your insurance to you instead of to the insurance company, what would happen?

......

They would laugh and say no it is not possible....not fully any way. Because most company's don't get insurance from the "insurance" company like Aetne et. all. They are self insured and the only insurance they pay for is "re-insurance"

They are paying Aetna et al as a "bargaining administrator" of the "network" and processor of the paperwork to shield the company from the employees and reduce cost. That is why those companies make so much money. They have the balls of the providers in one and and the wallets of the clients in the other.

They aren't actually in the "insurance" business at all.

Originally Posted by Wakeup

..
Anyone care to answer my question? Why do we need insurance companies if y'all think everyone should be paying their own way?

I've been working some notes up on this but had to pause it over the last two weeks. The answer/solution to it all could be simple had we started out on the right track LONG ago. But it is so fucked up now, I envision a two track solution where those of us that are old take one track until we die....and another track that puts youth on the track that should have been the system all along.

I'll answer in the main political forum maybe sometime next week.

slightly off topic: those dickheads in D.C. really should be considering a phase out / phase in plan like I suggested. Throwing any new system on everyone at ones has a low chance of success.

[VitaMan]

An interesting aspect of insurance is, does it cause an increase in the price of goods and services you are needing to buy.

For health insurance, it can be argued yes. More people have money (insurance) to buy it. You could say it is similar to the housing bubble. More and more people (even unqualified) were given access to money to buy houses. Housing prices as a result spiraled out of control. Until defaults started. We see these huge hospital building all over Houston. Are americans really such a sickly people ? You would think we are the sickest people on the planet. No, the services and buildings come out of the money being supplied.

For car insurance, it would not seem insurance to use one increases the cost. If people can't afford to buy one, there would be no sales.

Unfortunately for health, you don't get a choice if you need treatment or not. Or do you ? At least that is what several of the posts tend toward. And treatment has become unaffordable......because of insurance.

[looking2havefun]

Originally Posted by Wakeup

You mean like everyone who has an insurance policy?

No I mean people who dont pay for their own insurance (welfare, state/goverment handouts) Not talking about people who pay for Insurance out of pocket or work for a company and earn their insurance that way.
You are not a stupid person so quit pretending to be one just to provoke people.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by GlobeSpotter

They are self insured and the only insurance they pay for is "re-insurance"

They are paying Aetna et al as a "bargaining administrator" of the "network" and processor of the paperwork to shield the company from the employees and reduce cost. That is why those companies make so much money. They have the balls of the providers in one and and the wallets of the clients in the other.

The plan administrator can defer to the company's HR department when dealing with special situations with employees and the HR department can authorize plan payments for those special situations. IMO it is less expensive for the company to be self-insured and better for the employees. The plan administrator is better at negotiating with the providers, since they are "associated" with the health care business and familiar with the provider's billing "tricks."

The "new" plan by the Feds sounds like it will include a self-insured option for routine exams and matters with a "major medical" policy with a varying deductible per procedure. People can do that now, and it comes out cheaper than paying for those insureds who run to the doctor every time they get watery eyes.